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Subject: Should your vote count?
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CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:826


07/23/2006 3:53 PM  
You all have given me some very useful advice in the past. I recently decided to run for a position on the board. I have a couple of questions, perhaps many of you have heard of or have experienced.
Our “yearly” meeting was held yesterday to vote in any volunteers, to run for the BOD. If you are familiar with this then I’m sure it will be easy for you to share with me your feelings. If you are reading this and YOU are a homeowner that has paid your dues, but doesn’t show up for any of the meetings or fill out a proxy; can you tell me why? I don’t understand why it is required to have 25% of the community to vote. From what I understand, without the proper number of paid residents (25%) to meet quorum then you can’t even start to vote! Is this correct? Why is that? HMMMMM. You can’t even elect new volunteers to represent the community. I was extremely mad! I still am a little upset about the whole thing. With the people that do show up and the proxies you do have, why can’t these only be the eligible votes? I understand that you can not vote if you have not paid your dues! I feel if you don’t make an effort to be there to vote or you don’t fill out and send in the proxy then YOU shouldn’t count!
My wife and I had many discussions about the responsibility and time devoted to being a board member. I and many of my neighbors felt I would be a great voice for our community!
When the election is held for presidency, if you’re registered to vote then your vote will count. They don’t take the total number of registered voters! Only the voters that are present count. I feel it should be the same thing for an HOA election. You have volunteers running for position to help the community and you can’t even hold a vote because you don’t have enough people. BS!
I would appreciate any suggestions on this. I want to know if this is pretty common in an HOA.
Thank you all once again-
Chuck W.


.



Charles E. Wafer Jr.
JosephW
(Michigan)

Posts:882


07/23/2006 4:52 PM  
Almost all associations, condo, HOA and POA have a minimum number of eligible voters required in order to create a quorum and hold the annual meeting at which directors are elected. If they fail to have a quorum, then they are usually required to hold the meeting again within a specified period of time (see association documents or state corporate law). This is usually because associations are often non-profit corporations and the conduct of their annual meetings fall under coprporate law, nor state or federal voting laws.

Not getting a quorum is nothing unusual. There are as many reasons for it as there are associations. When the board sends out the notice for the next meeting, ask them to include the cost for every meeting that fails to achieve a quorum (postage, printing, room rental, time, etc. Let them know that the association is required to keep doing this until they get it right, and it will be less money out of their pocket if they get it done sooner. Do your documents allow for proxies for quorum count only? These are proxies that can't be used to vote, but can be used for establishing a quorum. Your best hope is a basic "get out the vote" campaign.

Joe

Joseph West
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Community Associations Network, LLC
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GeraldT1


Posts:0


07/23/2006 6:06 PM  
CharlesW1,

Obtaining 25% of the community in person or proxy to vote in board members is common, as is owner apathy. A dismal turnout should not however negate the importance of the 25% quorum rule. Would you want 5% deciding outcomes for the other 95% of the owners. You're not happy with the minimal percentage of your existing board that decides matters, why would you look to lower the standard?

Suggestion is to send out the resumes/biographies/letters of each volunteer seeking candidacy and to include the proxy with a ballot by mail. Hold the vote meeting again and make it mandatory attendance.

GeraldT1
BrianB
(California)

Posts:2820


07/23/2006 7:08 PM  
FYI, make sure proxy voting is still legal in your state, or else, even proxies don't count. Arizona, for one, does not allow proxies anymore.
BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:2640


07/23/2006 7:24 PM  
Charles:

We don't have quorums for our elections or for covenant changes. The only time we have a quorum is when the board is taking action and we have to have 50% or greater of the board present to make decisions. I am not sure how your state is set up, but check and see if a quorum is necessary.
RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:5067


07/23/2006 7:33 PM  
Charles, I'm sorry your did not have enough members plus proxies to be able to hold a meeting and get elected to the Board. Due to apathy this happens more often than it should; that is why I am in favor of proxies. Hopefully your by-laws cover this situation and another meeting for the election can be called with a lower percentage required for the quorm. And if the 2nd meeting does not have a quorum keep reducing the percent required for each subsequent meeting until it is achieved.

I recommend you and others who plan to attend the follow up meeting solicit valid proxies to make sure a quorum is present. Based on the many members' meeting I have attended I recommend changing the by-laws to not more than 20% required for a quorum for HOAs with 50-100 members and for HOAs with over 200 members as low as 10% to 15% if your state allows it.

Some will disagree with such a small number of members being able to control such important matters but reality ultimately must rule. If members don't care enough to be represented then those who do should not be penalized.
JulieS
(Georgia)

Posts:412


07/24/2006 9:32 AM  
Proxies are valid in Georgia, where Charles lives, for quorum and voting. I would talk to your neighbors...see if they will attend the next meeting. If not, ask for their proxy to reach quorum, and maybe even to vote on their behalf. They can fill in on the form naming you for their vote. We only need 10% of the eligible vote to reach quorum for the annual meeting.
MistiH
(Texas)

Posts:52


07/24/2006 11:16 AM  
Posted By GeraldT1 on 07/23/2006 6:06 PM

CharlesW1,

Would you want 5% deciding outcomes for the other 95% of the owners. You're not happy with the minimal percentage of your existing board that decides matters, why would you look to lower the standard?


GeraldT1


I have no problem with 5% making the decision if the other 95% won't trouble themselves to vote. Maybe at subsquent elections that 95% might actually get involved if they don't like what the other 5% decided. Could be a good motivator!

Owner apathy is so pervasive at my property. The group of volunteers works year after year with little variance in the faces that I see. Of course, the general population feels free to gripe and complain constantly. Boy, it's really annoying sometimes.


Loving Life in Texas!
Misti
CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:826


07/24/2006 2:02 PM  
Thank you all. I appreciate all your advice. My wife and I have been discussing this issue. The by-laws say that quorum is met when 25% of homeowners are either; present to vote or they have filled out a proxy. OK! Once the quorum is met then the election is on. Right!?
In our sub-division we vote in volunteers for three positions. Now these three are given the right (once elected) to decide on what’s best for the entire community, among themselves, which is hardly 1%, if that. Our community is 275 homeowners and the by-laws state that 25% is required to hold an election. Of that 25% all have to be current of their dues! I have noticed that this is a lot to ask from that 25%. Once the quorum is met and the positions are filled by voting or by proxy. Am I making sense here?
You all have given me some really good advice, thank you
I was wondering, could our current board have mailed out proxies to be filled out and mailed in with their payment of the yearly dues? Could we just remind all homeowners to fill out the proxy and to mail it in with their payment? This seems to make so much sense to me. Why wouldn’t you?

Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.
RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:5067


07/24/2006 2:13 PM  
Chuck, I always mail out a proxy form with the notice of the annual meeting along with an agenda and the Board approved annual budget. Without proxies (which are required to be assinged to another member of the HOA) there is seldom a quorum of 20%. Refreshments and 'visit with your neighbors' time is provided from 6:30 - 7:00 PM on a middle of the week evening. The business meeting usually lasts about an hour. All of these factors are important to help to get out the members.
GeraldT1


Posts:0


07/24/2006 4:37 PM  
MistiH,

Owner apathy, and complaining without knowledge from volunteering is appalling. I understand the frustrations first hand, been there done that, and am living it in my HOA/COA. But the standards of a quorum are established for reasons. Accountability and checks and balances. If the board can't get a quorum, the board is accountable to remind the owners that the owners are accountable to participate in the process.

More often than not, as evidenced in the discussion topics in the HOAtalk forum, boards nationwide are operating as microcosms onto themselves. Why would anyone want to lower the threshold of quorum? Do you really think there's a guarantee a good board will stay that way forever? Say you lower the threshold of quorum to get some good people on the board, but over time they leave. What could you be stuck with? You could be stuck with a lower quorum threshold and self-serving board members that are not required to reach out to the community at large. It could wind up hurting more than helping.

Charles' quorum is 25% by person or proxy, and a quorum of anything less would most likely be a material amendment to the governing documents. I'm a little surprised that everyone is recommending he lower the threshold, the poor guy can't even get on the board.

What challenges us makes us stronger for the fight!!

I'm beginning to feel assured that the problems in Charles HOA are with the existing board which may explain some of the owner apathy. It's my opinion to CharlesW1 that lowering the threshold of quorum is not a long-term solution, rather I feel it's a stop gap remedy to a larger pervasive problem that a very very proactive board can solve. Where do the other board members stand on the issue Charles???? Are they in favor of a lower quorum threshold. If so, and it was me, I'd be concerned.

GeraldT1
NNJ
CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:826


07/25/2006 7:14 AM  
I haven’t asked the other board members their thoughts as to not making quorum. If I understand it correctly they already have a seat. I’m the one that wants to be on the board. Until the meeting is held they will remain on the board until others volunteer and we make quorum.
I know from previous discussions they weren’t at all happy with the fact that, out of the 275 home owners in our community. Sixty-nine is delinquent in their yearly dues, leaving 206 members current with their dues. Out of that we had gathered 17 proxies and we were still short of quorum. Ironically enough, the 69 delinquent in their dues is 25% of 275. HMMMMMMMM I don’t understand why any HO would pay their dues but not care enough to voice their opinion about who are what goes on in the neighborhoods. You know if not anything else, eat the food and have something to drink. It’s provided at every meeting. And it their money!It's free for the taken!

Thanks again for your advice. Your thoughts are all very useful. I will continue to update you all as often as possible.

Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.
JulieS
(Georgia)

Posts:412


07/25/2006 7:36 AM  
Charles, with 69 people delinquent on their dues, this reduces the total eligible voting membership to 206. The 206 multiplied by 25% is 51.5 to reach quorum. You do not need 25% of the 275 members because those that are delinquent or in violatoin of an ACC reduce the eligible membership.
CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:826


07/25/2006 7:46 AM  
Hold up. Do I understand this correctly! It’s not the total members it’s the total number of homeowners that are current on their dues? This would make sense to me.

I have read many posts that you have given advice on and I would be honored to be on the board beside you! I appreciate all you insight.
Thank you.

I think that’s what you are saying, right!?

Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.
RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:5067


07/25/2006 7:55 AM  
Charles, if your HOA has a 25% delinquency you need better collection methods. The HOAs we manage have 1 to 8 delinquencies for a month or two. On less than 5 occasions we have had to file a lien. But we have never turned over an account to an attorney for collection. This proves there are management systems which work.
WilliamT
(Arizona)

Posts:489


07/25/2006 7:58 AM  
Check your bylaws regarding "Quorum" and it should be spelled out for you.

As an example, here is what our bylaws states:

The presence at the meeting of Members entitled to cast, or of proxies entitled to cast, votes shall constitute a quorum.

This says if they are delinquent then they are not entitled to vote, and the quorum is determined from those "entitled" to vote.

Bill
RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:5067


07/25/2006 8:09 AM  
The eligibility of members to vote or use common area facilities varies as determined by the HOA's controlling documents. Don't just presume a member can not vote because they are delinquent in paying their assessment. Some Declarations state all members are eligible to vote and they are silent on delinquent accounts. Also, this is important when counting the ballots on amendments to the Declaration; I use the total of all members whether they vote or not to determine if 2/3 approve.
CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:826


07/25/2006 8:14 AM  
I’m going to be review the CC&Rs. I will keep you all updated as to what they say is required to make quorum.

I’m aware of the large delinquency rate we have. That is why I have become more involved in our HOA. I have asked about the delinquent homeowners and I was told that I would have to be on the board to hear that type of information. So I decided to run for the board.
I may not do anything more than what is being done but, then I will know, that I did all that I could.


Thanks again
Chuck W

Charles E. Wafer Jr.
DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


07/25/2006 9:00 AM  
Charles W.
The sad news is that there is so much apathy and uninterest in our own community affairs, that no one makes the slightest effort to try and right things. Congratulations on your effort and interest because it is people like you and some of us posters, that make things work for our communities.
The reason that all deeded communities have numbers for quorums and votes is to prevent a couple of "gung ho" crazies from running Boards with personal agendas and gestapo type control.
In Florida we have 30% of the total membership to have a quorum and anywhere from 2/3rds to half of membership to change covenants thru the amendment process.
I walked the streets, going door to door for 2 months, getting signatures to increase our B.O.D. from 3 to 5 members. ANd then for a vote for a new Board, I had to scrounge up 34 Proxies to get the new members elected. So you see, it is not just your place. It is almost all places.
JUst for good information, you should download your State Statutes for H.O.A.s and see how your Board may or may not be in sync with your state. Get a couple of really interested people working with you. One person will burn out trying to do this alone. I admire your tennacity. "Been there, done that".
CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:826


07/25/2006 9:28 AM  
Donna- Thank you for the encouragement. Where can I look to find out if my BOD is following State Statutes for H.O.A.s and see how my Board may or may not be in sync with my state?
I turned to this forum for advice. You all are so helpful to me. I can always count on you all.

I’ve read some real horror stories on here. After reading them, I am thankful that long grass and garbage can sightings are all the majority of our problems I really have it good compared to others, I guess!
It’s not perfect by any means but I believe it can be if the by-laws are enforced, Because I am not on the BOD. I have been told that that the information I’m asking for is personal. So basically if I wanted to help at all then I had to be on the board. So I’m trying to get elected.

Tonight, my wife and I will go door to door trying to get proxies to meet quorum. I can hear it now. “The two volunteers that want to run for the board, are you still interested? The other one will probably drop out! He only did it because everyone pressured him into it. All in favor of so and so say yah or nah”. I can just hear in now.

OH well. The hard work will payoff.
Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.
GeraldT1


Posts:0


07/25/2006 10:03 AM  
CharlesW1,

What proxies are you going to collect, ones that were already mailed for the meeting that didn't have a quorum? Have new proxies been created with submission dates and therefore prescribed (approved) by the board? Are those the proxies you are going to collect? Just curious what your CC&R's say regarding proxies, the method of distribution and collection, etc.

A good board will offer avenues of unit owner assistance, the most popular of which is committees.
If you don't eventually make it onto the board, you can always request heading up a committee in the area you are interested in, eg. finance committee.

GeraldT1
CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:826


07/25/2006 10:18 AM  
I’m reviewing my by-laws now. I don’t know if I can or can’t. I know the secretary, who is currently on the board went door to door getting proxies for this past meeting. I just thought if I were to get as many as possible. The current board can figure out if their vote is eligible to count!
Does this sound like a problem? Can I go door to door and ask for proxies? Should I or should I just lye low and wait for the current board?
I didn't know I would need an approval by the board. I thought if you just have the homeowner fill out the form and that would be their vote for the next election. Unless they plan to attend.


Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.
RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:5067


07/25/2006 10:23 AM  
Gerald, proxies should be provided which account for having to defer a meeting to a future date. Following is an example:

PROXY for the Annual Meeting
of the _______ Homeowners Association, Inc.

I, the undersigned Owner of the property at (complete street address) hereby appoint (member's name) as my proxy with full power of substitution, to vote on my behalf in respect to all matters that may properly come before the Annual meeting on (date) and at every adjournment thereof, to the same extent and with the same powers that I would be entitled if personally present.

This proxy shall be void if I or another Owner of this property is personally present.

_______________________ ________________________ ___________
Homeowner’s Signature Print Name Date
GeraldT1


Posts:0


07/25/2006 10:38 AM  
CharlesW1,

You should ask your board for the protocol on the mannner they prefer for distribution and collection. They may be happy to have you collect them, but the secretary is an officer of the board acting in a capacity that has authorization. Just want you to be extra cautious, that's all.

GeraldT1
CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:826


07/25/2006 10:42 AM  
Roger- I emailed our property manager this morning suggesting that I could go door to door and collect proxies. He had said that the attorney is working on the proper paper work for us to switch to a POA from an HOA. At this point he said we will need to go door to door. He said we can just do it then.
I’m fine with that if that’s the way it’s supposed to be. I don’t really understand all of this. So if there isn’t a quorum to hold an election then the current board will have to remain in office until quorum is met. Is this correct?

Can I use the sample you posted?

Do I have to ask the Board for an approval to us it?
Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.
GeraldT1


Posts:0


07/25/2006 10:42 AM  
Hey RogerB,

Thanks, I know what proxies are, your example is similar to mine, only difference is that our proxies have a submission/due date. Roll with me on this one, I'm leading CharlesW1 towards reviewing his by-laws and being extra cautious. Soon, he'll know them better than most.

Thanks again!!
GeraldT1
NNJ
GeraldT1


Posts:0


07/25/2006 10:47 AM  
CharlesW1,

Are there any provisions in your by-laws for vacancies on the board? In my HOA/COA if a vacancy occurs, the remaining board members fill the spot, not the community. Do any of the current board members want out? If your board can fill the vacancy, that may be an opportunity for you to get on the board.

GeraldT1
GeraldT1


Posts:0


07/25/2006 11:30 AM  
CharlesW1,

RogerB is more than capable of speaking for himself, but I can't resist the question....why don't you ask your board for the form of the approved proxy?

GeraldT1
RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:5067


07/25/2006 12:36 PM  
Chuck, I concur with Gerald. I would hope you received a proxy form prior to the first annoucement of the annual meeting which allows for its use for the next meeting. If not I would suggest you provide the example form I posted to your Board and suggest they use it. It is best to work through your current Board so you have a good working relationship when you get on the Board.

I also concur with Gerald that you can appointed to the Board when there is a vacancy.
JulieS
(Georgia)

Posts:412


07/25/2006 12:47 PM  
Chuck, look in your documents and it should read 'total eligible vote or total eligible membership'. I only bring this up as you are in GA, as I am. I have gone through a lot this past year with special meetings, voting, proxies, amendments, etc. and have discussed the total eligible vote with our HOA attorney on a number of occassions.

We had a special meeting last year. If a homeonwer had a balance due, an unpaid fine or was in violation of an ACC rule, then they had no rights to vote and were not included in the eligible association vote. In a sense, they become 'non-members' as their rights have been taken away.

We have 137 homes and the person needed a majority vote to remove us, 51%. We purposely set the special meeting date within 30 days of the assessment due date to have fewer people officially "late and not in good standing". She needed 66 votes to remove us. We had six people 'not in good standing', making the associaation vote 131 x 51% = 66. She removed me and another person by the exact number of votes.

Also, I worked on amending our covenants to allow for an initiation fee to build reserves. I asked our attorney on how technical I had to be with the consent forms. Anyone with a balance due, unpaid fine or violation of ACC is a member not in good standing. Therefore they lower the total association/eligibile vote...it lowered the number of consent forms I needed and if anyone not in good standing voted, their vote didn't count. Again, we have 137 homes, and 11 not in good standing making the eligible association at 126. Multiply this times 2/3 majority vote and it passed by a few votes. Only one person who had voted yes was not in good standing.

Since both our associations are in GA, I think what you will need for clarification is in your bylaws and covenants, not with the state statutes. Our attorney was very clear each time that a member not in good standing reduces the total eligible vote. While your home is physically in the HOA, you have no rights as a homeowner on HOA issues.
CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:826


07/25/2006 1:42 PM  
GeraldT1,
Since we are being so honest, I feel it is O.K for me to tell you this. I have learned more about HOAs in the past month, than I have in the three years I have lived in this community. I’m sure I could have gotten the form from my board, but Roger posted it instead of having to wait for it from the BOD. Opportunity was knocking, so I graciously accepted. This forum will generally answer any questions or any concerns, I may have about HOA.
I’m so glad all of you dedicate so much time in educating so many of us that don’t know all the ins and outs of an HOA.
If more communities had the support and encouragement all of you have given me, I believe there would be more and more volunteers for HOA.
My neighborhood is a far cry from the dream my wife and I thought it was going to be before having our home built here. My impression of an HOA is not my neighborhood. Although, for the most part it’s pretty typical of many HOAs. If a majority of the people that I have gotten responses from, could all live together, there would be no need for this forum. Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate that it is available for so many people like me. I just feel that the majority of the responses I have gotten are from people that care. That’s what leadership is all about. I believe a community will run so much better when the board is comprised of the knowledge many of you have provided to so many of us!

Thanks once again for all you help
Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.
GeraldT1


Posts:0


07/25/2006 1:54 PM  
CharlesW1,

While there are similarities in the way HOA's run nationwide, each are unique. The advise given in the HOA forum provides perspective but more often than not, needs to be cross-referenced for it's applicability in each viewer's HOA governing documents, CC&R's, etc.

I don't believe the proxy that Roger posted was to be used verbatim, I believe it was an example actually addressed to me. Be that as it may, PLEASE be cautious about using the proxy in your own association, read your by-laws and see if there is a proxy, speak with your secretary, get approval to distribute. You must slow down here and go through YOUR board, get the proxy from your secretary. If they are seeking a proxy example, I certainly suggest using the one Roger posted.

GeraldT1
GeraldT1


Posts:0


07/28/2006 10:19 AM  
CharlesW1,

Any update/status as to meeting quorum, etc.?

GeraldT1
NNJ
CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:826


07/29/2006 6:00 AM  
GeraldT1,


Great memory! I’ll try to keep this brief. I wrote an email to our property manager asking him what else I could do to ensure we make quorum. This was a couple of days ago. I had mentioned going door to door asking for proxies. He had told me at this point, that the attorney is drawing up the paperwork now for the association to become a POA. We are currently an HOA. From what I understand the current board was advised by the property manager to become a POA. Our delinquency rate is very high. FYI, our last meeting, (where elections would have taken place if we had met quorum) we had 69 delinquent out of 275 HO’s. That’s ridiculous! I figured I would go door to door asking for proxies. Once collected I would give them all to the BOD, then they could sort thru them all, only using eligible proxies. I thought this would help meet the required amount needed to meet quorum.
Our property manager informed me that the current BOD will have to go door to door to give each homeowner a copy of the By-laws informing them of the change. I don’t really understand it all at this point. What I have been told is that, the homeowner will then be given like 30 days to review the “new by-laws”. A paper attached that says we the homeowner are aware and we the HO approve the new switch. I don’t know something like that, I would think. He said I should just wait until they do that, no sense going door to door twice.
Maybe you could answer this for me then. So until quorum is met the current BOD is still President, vice-president, Treasure and Secretary. I just want to do what even I can do to get the process going. I’m eager to get more involved as a homeowner. I want to know what is behind the scenes. Our current president and Vise-president are worthless. They are just bodies taking up seats on the board. Our property manager and secretary do all the work. They are more like a president and vise president than the two that are Prez and vise-prez! I know what they have been doing, witch is NOTHING! I want them out. They have too many issues to discuss.
This is where we stand as of Wednesday morning. I wait for the BOD to go door to door to hand out this new and reformed by-laws and receive a signature from the HO accepting the changes and that is when we will ask for the proxy.
I guess until then I just wait?

Does this sound like the best thing to do? Is there something else I should consider?

Thank you
Your advice is always helpful

Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.
GeraldT1


Posts:0


07/29/2006 6:32 AM  
CharlesW1,

You are passionate, that is not in any doubt.

I recommend you temper your presumptions of board inadequacy, however accurate they may be. Officer ship (Pres., VP, Treas., Sec.) are decided upon by the board members, not the community. Therefore, if the hard workers (Sec. and Treas.) choose to let the Pres. and VP slack off, that should tell you the dysfunction extends beyond the Pres. and VP.

You must read the by-law switch very carefully. What is different between the HOA and POA? What I don't understand is why a possible switch to a POA will halt the election for two members to the board. This makes me suspect there is an agenda, I also believe you are being told to back off.

However, your going door to door with an unauthorized proxy (provided by example on this forum) is in my opinion a bit overzealous, and can cause some instability within the community.

I recommend you sit back, read the documents very carefully. and excersise your ultimate power which equals one vote.

Best of luck!!
GeraldT1
NNJ
RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:5067


07/29/2006 8:00 AM  
Charles, it appears your Board is ignorant of the rules or else is stalling. Changing to a POA has nothing to do with electing Directors to the Board. Futhermore, the POA proposal may never get approved and based on owner turnout it certainly would not get approved at a members meeting. Read your By-laws. They should advise on procedures to have another meeting to elect Directors when there was not a quorum.

If the By-laws are silent on resetting the annual meeting and you are incorporated I'll bet your state statues for corporations require an annual meeting every year. Assuming you are following Robert's Rules of Order the President could have adjourned the annual meeting to an established later date. This is the only legal business which can be conducted when a quorum is not present. Since this was not done, ask the President (or Board) to to comply with the rules and schedule the meeting immediately so all required annual business of the association can be completed.
GeraldT1


Posts:0


07/29/2006 10:54 AM  
RogerB,

Excellent insight, advice, and post. I couldn't understand why changing to a POA was postponing anything, and suspect that replacements to the board or new members are not welcome, for whatever reason. It's impossible to tell definitively, of course.

Keep up the good experienced advice RogerB!!
GeraldT1
NNJ
CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:826


07/30/2006 1:57 PM  
Roger- Maybe I’m not explaining it correctly or maybe I just don’t know myself. I mention to the property manager that I could go door to door and ask for proxies to meet forum, if and when we have another election.
The property manager then informed me that the attorney is drawing up the paper to become a POA. At this point, from what I understand a copy of the CC&Rs needs to given to each homeowner and signed saying that they received it. Then they (the homeowner) is given x number of days to sign it and send it back, saying they are fine with the switch. I think what the property manger was says is if you are going to go door to door, then just wait for the papers to get done first and we could hand out the letter asking the HO to sign, killing two birds with one stone. IMO
It’s going to be hard enough to get a signature from each HO as it is, I’m sure! This way I can get proxy and the BOD can get the signatures requires for the HOA to switch to a POA. This makes sense? Does is sound right?

Your advice is always very helpful
Thank you
Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.
RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:5067


07/30/2006 3:37 PM  
Chuck, I would definitely separate the two actions. For proxies I would go door to door until a sufficient number are obtained. The annual election needs to be held promptly.

For a vote to change the Declaration it will take considerably more time and effort. I don't think you know how much time would be involed in going door to door for every owner. For 50 homes it can take 50 hours or more depending on how many times you have to go back. My recommended procedure for amending your Declaration is to mail ballots to each homeowner along with a letter thoroughly explaining the pros and the cons. After receiving signed ballots, a door to door canvass will be needed to try to secure a vote those that did not return a ballot. Remember, not voting is counted the same as a vote disapproving when it takes XX% approval of ALL owners. It will still be difficult to get sufficient votes to amend if it requires over 67% approval. Also, when personally soliciting votes one should be careful not to make comments which have a bias one way or the other. That is another reason to send a letter of explanation.
GeraldT1


Posts:0


07/30/2006 6:08 PM  
RogerB,

Please clarify your statement regarding going door to door to collect proxy. The proxies must be approved, prescribed by Chuck's HOA, correct?

GeraldT1
NNJ
RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:5067


07/30/2006 7:49 PM  
Yes that is best; as I have already stated above.

Posted By RogerB on 07/25/2006 12:36 PM

I would hope you received a proxy form prior to the first annoucement of the annual meeting which allows for its use for the next meeting. If not I would suggest you provide the example form I posted to your Board and suggest they use it. It is best to work through your current Board so you have a good working relationship when you get on the Board.


CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:826


07/31/2006 5:57 AM  
I do have a really good estimate of going “door to door”. My wife and I walked the entire neighborhood, putting a typed flyer on each mailbox last year. This was very time consuming. That took about 3 hours and we didn’t even go “door to door”. I’m aware on the time involved for sure but, what else am I suppose to do? I’m thinking that’s why the property manager suggested doing the two together. He probably figured “heay if this guy wants to go door to door for proxies, then that’s one more person to help the board, hand out these CC&Rs for the switch to a POA!
I’m going to go back and re-read the responses to my post today. I must have forgotten a majority of it! OOPS, SORRY. Going “door to door” really isn’t what it says? We did have proxies prior to the start of the annual elections but with those we still couldn’t meet quorum. I thought if I wanted a chance of getting a seat on the board, I‘m willing to put in the extra work.
You seem to have a really good understand of the many different situations that confront a homeowner. WOW! I’m very appreciative, Thank you
I know it will be a lot of work going “door to door”. Very time consuming, I’m sure. Can I do it though? Should I suggest it to my BODs first and see what they say to do? I definitely don’t want to start off on the wrong side with the current BOD.

I would prefer to get a seat on the BOD as soon as possible.

Thanks again
Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.
GeraldT1


Posts:0


07/31/2006 10:01 AM  
CharlesW1,

As both RogerB and myself have stated, provide an example of the proxy to your board. As RogerB has stated, it is best to work through your current Board so you have a good working relationship when you get on the Board.

Don't assume the property manager is thinking anything. Didn't the property manager tell you not to go door to door?

Understand that switching from a POA to an HOA should not exclude the need for a duly called meeting to fill spots on the board.

This makes me suspect if the switch will entail changes in the newly formed POA written into the language which reduces seats on the board, therefore nixing the need for new board members.

GeraldT1
NNJ
CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:826


07/31/2006 10:32 AM  
GeraldT1-

I just emailed the BOD, to see if they have a copy of a proxy, If not I put the one (I believe) Roger had provided. You are right, I shouldn’t assume what he is thinking, and that would make to much sense. He has never told me not to go door to door. All he said was “In addition as I mentioned at the meeting the board is looking to go POA which is in the process of completing at the attorneys office. This will be sent out to each homeowner and being that we did not have a quorum, this will most likely have to be also a door to door visit at the same time”
I’m not sure why we would have to go door to door, though Thanks again. Your advice is very helpful
Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.
EllenB
(Virginia)

Posts:8


08/23/2006 11:45 AM  
Money talks! Sometime mentioning possible increases in dues gets more of a turn out!
We all suffer with apathy.
CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:826


08/25/2006 9:47 AM  
Just thought I would give you all an update. I have been told by the property manager that the attorney is working on the documents for our HOA to be a POA. I sent an email to the current BOD, questioning how long could the meeting be adjourned for?
It’s difficult enough to even understand what I was reading, first off. You need to have an HOA attorney just to comprehend the wording alone.
I was reading the bylaws about meeting quorum. What makes a member eligible to vote? How many eligible voters it takes to hold a quorum?
I found this bylaw stating, which makes me assume that we only had a 30 day window for an adjournment.

I don’t think that reducing the % to meet quorum would be a good idea for our community, although I would like to know why it is that, the members that do attend and that are eligible to vote can’t be quorum! If the other members aren’t there to voice their opinion then why should those being a member even matter.

For god sake! It isn’t like the members are knocking the doors down,looking to volunteer. The only time the members that were there are even going to care is when they receive a violation notice.

Sorry for the long post!

I have read all the post once again this morning, very helpful as they were the first time you all addressed them to me.
Thank you all once again,
Chuck W.


Charles E. Wafer Jr.
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