JoseS2
(California)
Posts:24
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| 10/08/2008 8:10 AM |
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I am a board member now and requested a copy of the financials from the management company. I was told by the manager that "the board has been talking and told me not to send them to you" which means they have been holding meetings/discussions without the whole board.
I followed that up by telling her that legally I was entitled to see them as a board member and a member and that I would come to the office and pick them up if she wishes. She then emailed me telling me that they were going to be sent out in the mail but does not no how long that would take.
Does she have to get them to me within a time period?
I will say that I am not happy with the spending that has been going on in our community.
Any suggestions? |
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SusannaM
(Florida)
Posts:173
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| 10/08/2008 8:50 AM |
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| Have you checked your Covenants ?? Here in FL they have so many days to oblige to a request by a homeowner. You, as board member, should not have to wait. |
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MaryA1
(Arizona)
Posts:2157
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| 10/08/2008 8:54 AM |
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Jose,
Check out the Davis-Stirling Act -- the CA state law governing HOAs. Request for assn records is most likely covered. |
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SusanW1
(Michigan)
Posts:2117
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| 10/08/2008 9:04 AM |
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What "financials" did you request from the MC. Why did you go there for information? Did you want to look at the check ledger?
Your treasurer should have all the information that you would need to get a picture of the financial situation of the HOA.
Request those from that person - although at EACH board meeting, the treasurer should be giving monthly report, AND a year-to-date revenue/expenditure vs. the budgeted amount AND a balance sheet listing all accounts.
What more did you want to see?
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SusannaM
(Florida)
Posts:173
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| 10/08/2008 9:58 AM |
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| SusanW, what you are saying about Treasurer might be true in some states but not all. You are assuming his Treasurer does all the bookkeeping whereas he's saying Mgmt. Co. does the record keeping. Therefore Mgmt. Co should provide copies to board member upon request. |
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JaneK
(California)
Posts:175
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| 10/08/2008 10:18 AM |
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You are entitled to see the documents. You can review them at Mgmt’s office, by email or snail mail. If the BOD is failing to turn over HOA documents you can file a complaint with the Attorney General, that is one of the few HOA items the AG will get involved with.
http://ag.ca.gov/consumers/general/homeowner_assn.php
That may get their attention. I believe they have 10 days to come up with the documents for the current year. Civil Code §1363(f), Civil Code §1365.2, Corp. Code §8311, Corp. Code §8333
Management is allowed to make a profit, they can charge a nominal fee in addition to mailing and reproduction costs, small claims court is your option if you feel the fee is out of line. There should be no charge to just look at them.
Under CA Civil Code 1363.05 Any gathering of a majority of board members to discuss the business of the association is a meeting and in CA meetings must be open.
Jane
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SusanW1
(Michigan)
Posts:2117
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| 10/08/2008 10:37 AM |
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Susanna - you are correct ---HOWEVER, the Treasurer is the one who REPORTS to the board and the members. That person should be able to answer any question that any person would have about the finances. At the Annual Meeting, the Treasurer would have all this info to provide to the Members.
The MC is a hired company or employee and I don't think employees should be releasing any documents without authorization from the board.
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SusanW1
(Michigan)
Posts:2117
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| 10/08/2008 10:41 AM |
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So, Id' like to ask: what are HOA "documents" and what does "public exposure" means?
Does that mean looking at the check ledger? going over the finances, line by line? looking at signed contracts? having access to minutes? getting a full disclosure financial report at the annual meeting?
I can't imagine a resident wanting to look at the snow plow contract, when the required bids were stated in the mintues, along with the motion to hire and the president directing the road chairperson to sign the contract.
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SusannaM
(Florida)
Posts:173
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| 10/08/2008 12:17 PM |
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| SusanW, dear, not so in sunny FL. I, as a homeowner, can ask for any documents I want, and they'd better obliged within a reasonable number of days. Most treasurers here are merely overseers. |
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JoseS2
(California)
Posts:24
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| 10/08/2008 2:29 PM |
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I am onne of the board members so I think I should be able to see them. I have serious concerns that we have way over spent our budget for this year and still have 3 months to go.
The treasurer only reads off what the management company gives her. which unless you have a background in accounting makes very litte sense to most.
I want the members to know where the funds are going. Most assume our association is financially sound but we are far from that.
I know this will shake things up a bit so I am trying to make sure all my information us current and correct. I want hard copies in front of me so when questions are asked I will be able to answer.
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MaryA1
(Arizona)
Posts:2157
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| 10/08/2008 4:08 PM |
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Jose,
I'm sure CA has laws pertaining to requests for assn records. However, as a board member you shouldn't have to jump through those hoops. Copies of the financials should be yours for the asking. |
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SusanW1
(Michigan)
Posts:2117
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| 10/08/2008 4:13 PM |
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Absolutely, - call the treasurer and tell her/him you are going to request all those financial reports (I listed above) - copies for EACH of the members of the board.
She can't provide them?
Recall her. |
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JoseS2
(California)
Posts:24
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| 10/08/2008 4:39 PM |
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I requested from the manager because the board is not happy with me. They seem to think it is not the business of the members to know what is being spent on what. I disagree and think that they need to know as they have way over spent our budget this year. So from the point of view of the other board members they think I am "giving out information that people dont need to know"
I think part of my duty is to make sure we are well off financially. We are not and at this point we can fix the spending problem. If it goes on much longer we will be in the same situation as our great state of CA.
We will see if I get them. |
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DonN
(Michigan)
Posts:237
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| 10/11/2008 2:52 PM |
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Of course, board members should have access to all the information they believe they need to exercise their responsibilities.
When a board members is getting a "run around" over availability of financial information, I would be suspicious that there is a problem that is being covered up.
You can gain more insight by examining the financial information provided to members. It is the members (owners) who provide all the money to fund the owners association. They should know how their money is being spent.
If the owners are "kept in the dark", your association likely has a deeper problem. It is time for an audit according to AICPA CIRA.
I support the advice from SusanW1. |
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Don Nordeen
Governance of Property Owners Associations
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SusanW1
(Michigan)
Posts:2117
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| 10/12/2008 6:22 AM |
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Jose - Note that I am talking about the Treasurer, not the MC, providing the information that you want.
I don't think that the MC needs 5 - 9 people at its door, all wanting information.
The Treasurer should be giving reports EACH month that would answer any questions that any board member could ask. |
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MaryA1
(Arizona)
Posts:2157
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| 10/12/2008 10:13 AM |
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Susan,
I can't believe you suggest recalling the treasurer if she can't provide copies of all the financial statements. Traditionally, it's the property manager who takes care of paying the bills and preparing the monthly f/s. The treasurer doesn't do anything except read the financial report at the monthly board meeting. In fact, the treasurer may not even know how to "read" the financial statement; the treasurer (and board) may have to rely on the P.M. to explain it to her!!
My advice would be to get rid of the P.M. if she/he is unwilling to provide copies to the board members. As a board member, Jose shouldn't have to jump through the hoops that a member requesting assn records would have to. |
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SusanW1
(Michigan)
Posts:2117
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| 10/12/2008 12:37 PM |
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Who signs the Tax forms?
Who is listed on the Annual Report as the Treasurer?
Is there a job description in the bylaws outlining the Treasurer's job?
The Treasurer should be working with the bookkeeper, MC, or accountant and be in the loop as to what these figures mean on the reports. In turn, the Treasurer reports to the Board. the Treasurere does not have to DO the work, only see that it is done, and done correctly.
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BryanG1
(Florida)
Posts:31
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| 10/12/2008 6:13 PM |
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Here in Florida, under the new 2008 HOA statutes, any reasonably requested records have to be given to any legal member of the community within 10 business days of the request.
Furthermore, financial records cannot be "kept" from any board member or legal member of the community for that matter. If the board is telling them not to give them to you, then they're just asking for a lawsuit. |
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