HeatherJ1
(South Carolina)
Posts:62
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| 10/08/2008 6:34 AM |
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We delivered a ballot and a letter to all members on July 27th. It only had two questions (1-revise the covenants per the letter and 2-revise the bylaws per the letter). The ballot was to be returned to a board member's mailbox or brought to the annual homeowner's meeting on Sept 16th. Numerous emails and signs were posted in regards to the meeting and the ballots. By the time the meeting occurred, we had very few ballots so we began going door to door to request ballots. This resulted in a few more but not many. We then sent out a an email with the ballot attached. Again, just a few trickled in.
We are now 2 1/2 months later, and we have received 38 ballots out of 69 homeowners. Out of the responses, we received 74% yes to revising the covenants and 97% yes to revising the bylaws.
We obviously do not have 2/3 of the members (homeowners) voting yes since only 55% of them voted at all. Our bylaws state that we need 2/3 to revise.
I now know why all of our HOA board recently resigned. Nothing can ever get accomplished in this neighborhood as people are too lazy to participate.
What should we do? I know it is probably not legal to assume that no vote equals a yes, but to me, if you are opposed to something, you should voice your concern and vote. If you do not vote, you should have no say so in the matter.
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RogerB
(Colorado)
Posts:3694
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| 10/08/2008 8:19 AM |
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| Heather, apathy is the number one problem with HOAs. If you are serious about amending your Board will need to go door to door until such time as there are sufficient votes to approve or not approve the amendments. With regard to the Bylaws if they require 2/3 approval of all members then you need to include in the amendment to the Bylaws that it requires 2/3 of all member voting at a duly call meeting of the members of the HOA. |
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Roger Borcherding
Official HOATalk.com Sponsor
DARCO Property Management (Colorado)
(303) 925-0150 
*See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal |
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KirkW1
(Texas)
Posts:1110
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| 10/08/2008 8:28 AM |
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I know that apathy runs rampant. But I often wonder what the HOA is doing to encourage involvement.
Last night was National Night Out for Texas. We had our first block party for the HOA and had a pretty good turnout. AS it happens, it was better then the first four the mayor had been to.
The thing is that if you don't involve people until you need a vote, you will have a hard time getting the vote. All the same, you probably have people like we do who ignore any mail from the HOA. To get the 2/3 vote needed you will have to spend a considerable amount of time ringing door bells. But try to get others to help bring the change. |
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SusanW1
(Michigan)
Posts:2121
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| 10/08/2008 9:12 AM |
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Heather - I have heard of two approaches to shake up a HOA where the residents are so apathetic:
1) Announce there will be a free dinner AFTER the dinner.
2) Announce a vote for a huge increase in dues (to be voted on by the residents) - then withdraw the motion at the meeting. At least you will get their attention.
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MaryA1
(Arizona)
Posts:2161
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| 10/08/2008 9:16 AM |
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| Cute, Susan. But, I think either approach would only work once. |
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:2797
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| 10/08/2008 9:44 AM |
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We used the threat of speed bumps once and the threat of a HUGE special assessment once. Both worked----once--- but it got everyones attention. AT the meeting, after the possible bumps and assessment was removed from the table, someone had the audacity to ask why we did that. The answer we all know--to get their attention. Some were mad, others laughed but the plead from the Board was, "please pay attention to your association and help us out. Things got better after that but it will never be what it should be, no place, no way. |
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HeatherJ1
(South Carolina)
Posts:62
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| 10/08/2008 10:53 AM |
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Very good ideas!!! I actually like the one on pretending to increase dues but I know that would get people so mad. I wish our bylaws said from the "voting members" not members. Good idea to change that... if we can ever change anything. Just think about the presidential election. Only about 50% of the US votes but we still elect a president, ya know?? Can you imagine McCain/Obama reading all of the doorbells in the US???
What a fun situation to be in. We do try to unite the neighborhood with activities and events. We have a Halloween one coming up on that day but I can bet money the ones that attend are those that already voted. |
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JohnK3
(Pennsylvania)
Posts:438
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| 10/08/2008 11:10 AM |
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Posted By KirkW1 on 10/08/2008 8:28 AM
I know that apathy runs rampant. But I often wonder what the HOA is doing to encourage involvement.
Last night was National Night Out for Texas. We had our first block party for the HOA and had a pretty good turnout. AS it happens, it was better then the first four the mayor had been to.
The thing is that if you don't involve people until you need a vote, you will have a hard time getting the vote. All the same, you probably have people like we do who ignore any mail from the HOA. To get the 2/3 vote needed you will have to spend a considerable amount of time ringing door bells. But try to get others to help bring the change.
Heather,
What Kirk said. Though I'd add a one page summary to let them read when the door is answered. Then stress the importance and promise you won't bug them again once the needed votes are collected. Then hand them a copy and a pen so they can get you out of their hair.
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HeatherJ1
(South Carolina)
Posts:62
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| 10/08/2008 11:29 AM |
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The fun part is three of us have already gone door to door. I seriously DO have a life outside of this HOA mess. What a waste of my time.
I'm going to suggest we say we are raising dues at a meeting to see if we get attendance. But, I don't think my other board members will agree to that. |
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KimM8
(California)
Posts:59
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| 10/08/2008 11:38 AM |
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| We typically have 7-10% attendance at meetings...we have 161 units and only 10-16 people attend, now that's sad. |
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SusanW1
(Michigan)
Posts:2121
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| 10/08/2008 11:40 AM |
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All you'd have to do is put the PROPOSAL on the agenda for the increase.
Then when it comes up on the agenda, someone request that the proposal be removed from consideration.
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:2797
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| 10/08/2008 1:00 PM |
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Someone suggested a dinner as a reward for showing up at a meeting. Phooey. Reward people for being not interested in how they live and how much apathy they have? That doesn't feel right to me and I say no way. Do your duty or those of us who show up will do it for you, then live with our decisions without griping. I cannot agree with coddeling these folks any longer. |
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HeatherJ1
(South Carolina)
Posts:62
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| 10/08/2008 1:15 PM |
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Posted By SusanW1 on 10/08/2008 11:40 AM
All you'd have to do is put the PROPOSAL on the agenda for the increase.
Then when it comes up on the agenda, someone request that the proposal be removed from consideration.
That's the plan. I actually have one board member agreeing to do this!! We'll see what the others say.
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KirkW1
(Texas)
Posts:1110
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| 10/08/2008 6:21 PM |
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Our PM talked the developer into offering three one year dues at the turnover meeting to encourage participation. I don't believe we will do that again, but I do see us offering door prizes at our meeting. People like to win things.
The thing is that you should be able to get more then three people to go door to door. But you have to work at it to get people involved. And it won't happen if you only ask them when a daunting task is at hand. |
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HeatherJ1
(South Carolina)
Posts:62
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| 10/08/2008 7:06 PM |
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Well, the newly elected president says he will again go door to door to those that didn't vote. Should be interesting.
And I was looking forward to our deceptive meeting. Well, not really as I don't necessarily wanna make enemies of my neighbors. |
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SusanW1
(Michigan)
Posts:2121
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| 10/08/2008 8:16 PM |
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Kirk - your group GAVE AWAY FREE dues (credited as paid) to get people to attend?
Amazing!!
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KirkW1
(Texas)
Posts:1110
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| 10/13/2008 8:08 AM |
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Yes, that was what was done. Our dues are $200 a year. And they gave three one year assessment credits. One was drawn from people who sent in proxies and two from people who were present.
I don't think we will be doing that again. I do think we may offer some door prizes. I am thinking that perhaps we will get a $50 and two $25 grocery cards for door prizes. The simple fact is that people like door prizes.
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DanielG3
(Washington)
Posts:2
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| 10/14/2008 11:22 PM |
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We used an online free survey site as the majority of owners have Internet. We taped ballots on doors and in building message boxes for others. We kept the vote open and kept up the reminders until we had enough votes. Before that, with special meetings called, announced, held, etc we failed to get enough people to participate twice. This worked the first time with about 15% more yes votes than were necessary! No giveaways.
Check out Zoomerang and Survey Monkey for starters. These are so easy to set up and use and to vote on, people just seem to like the convenience and privacy a whole lot more than a meeting.
FYI, in the past, I have given away coffee gift cards as random drawings for participants (non-HOA stuff). A lot cheaper than a year of HOA dues and still nice. |
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SusanW1
(Michigan)
Posts:2121
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| 10/15/2008 6:15 AM |
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I have a problem with the "polls" being open long enought to get what the Board wants. Sounds like manipulation to me.
This flies in the face of a real meeting, where the motion can be debated in front of the members.
Unless bylaws or other documents say that email voting and ballots gathered over several days are permitted, that vote is null and void.
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