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Subject: rental of condo to one individual = 2

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JoS2
(Wisconsin)

Posts:4

10/07/2008 8:24 PM
What does a HOA do when a unit owner rents his unit to one individual and the Board approves the lease agreement; then the renter's girl friend moves in and causes problems for neighbors. Renter says she doesn't live there just comes some times. Neighbors say she is living there and is a nuisance. Is there a legal time frame such as 6 weeks or one year, etc., for when an occupant becomes a permanent tenant as opposed to a visitor. Thanks.

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1362

10/07/2008 8:45 PM
Whether the problem is with the "approved" renter or his girlfriend, the person responsible is the owner of the condo. The HOA's contract is with him/her, send them the complaint and have them deal with it. Even if your documents somehow give you the right to "approve" tenants I would not try to regulate this without the advice and guidance of an attorney, this is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

JoS2
(Wisconsin)

Posts:4

10/07/2008 8:48 PM
Thanks for your advice.

BonnieE
(Illinois)

Posts:168

10/08/2008 4:38 AM
Hi Jo – we have dealt with similar situations. In these cases, as Glen stated, the owner is responsible to ensure his/her tenant(s) and all guests follow all the rules, etc. We require the owner to provide the tenant(s) a copy of the rules and regs - and, the owner to provide our MC a copy of the lease. In one situation, the owner’s efforts did not produce the required results (we had sent warning letters to the owner outlining the violations) and a notice of violation was sent. The result of the hearing was that the owner (technically) was guilty, but due to the circumstances, the owner was not fined as he/she said would evict the tenant (had a clause in rental agreement) – and the problem was resolved. Good luck! Bonnie

KirkW1
(Texas)

Posts:1110

10/08/2008 9:06 AM
Focus on specific rule violations. These are actionable. General complaints are not. For all you really know they have a personality conflict. And the HOA has no business dealing with such. If there are specific complaints with details then you may have something. As for the living there, not living there...you can't prove it either way. Save yourself time and grief. You are not there to save the day.

SusanW1
(Michigan)

Posts:2117

10/08/2008 9:25 AM
"Renters say . . " "Neighbor says . . ." What are the facts? Are CCRs being violated, or not!

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2796

10/08/2008 9:37 AM
Joe, What constitutes a nuisance? Is she breaking the rules and regs? The owner of the unit is the one that is resonsible for anyone inside his unit. Go after him but you should have documentation and or proof of what she is doing. The owner may not aware that she is residing in his unit and should be made aware.

JoS2
(Wisconsin)

Posts:4

10/09/2008 12:37 PM
My concern was that our records indicate we have one individual living in the rented unit, and if an additional person is residing there, the Association requires a name, emergency contact, and if, applicable, a vehicle license #. The State of Wisconsin requires that a copy of a lease and this additional information be provided to the Association, and a copy of the lease was received with the one renter's name. In case of fire, or an accident, we are required to obtain this additional information as to other occupants. As for any incidents that indicate the person would be liable for failure to follow the By-Laws and Condo Rules, we would certainly investigate that issue. I was really wanting to know if there is a timeframe that constitutes a person who is living in a unit versus a person who just occasionally spends the night or a few nights. But as indicated in the first response, I believe it is best to not delve into that aspect of the rented unit, but as indicated stick with the By-Laws and Rules as noted. Thanks for all your input -- I appreciate it.

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2796

10/09/2008 1:03 PM
Joe, I guess it depends on how many hangers the "overnighter" has in use. This is one of those hard to prove, hard to enforce issues.

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1732

10/09/2008 2:35 PM
i have no idea of the intent of the requirements, or how to define "living" versus staying, visiting, etc., BUT if the honest to gosh reason is indeed for emergency fire, evacuation, toxic spill release, etc., then the definition is easy: anyone who comes onto or into the property, for any length of time, must notify the data gathering body of their presence. Anyone who leaves the property for any length of time must notify the same folks, so they can be removed from the list. Otherwise, the entire reason for the collection of data is impossible to perform with success. How can you evacuate everyone if you don't know how many "everyone" is? How can you be sure everyone is out of fire danger, if you don't know how many that is? How can everyone be accounted for in an emergency unless you know who was present when it started? That's going to be a big job, even in a tiny community.

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2157

10/09/2008 6:18 PM
Posted By JoS2 on 10/09/2008 12:37 PM My concern was that our records indicate we have one individual living in the rented unit, and if an additional person is residing there, the Association requires a name, emergency contact, and if, applicable, a vehicle license #. The State of Wisconsin requires that a copy of a lease and this additional information be provided to the Association, and a copy of the lease was received with the one renter's name. In case of fire, or an accident, we are required to obtain this additional information as to other occupants. As for any incidents that indicate the person would be liable for failure to follow the By-Laws and Condo Rules, we would certainly investigate that issue. I was really wanting to know if there is a timeframe that constitutes a person who is living in a unit versus a person who just occasionally spends the night or a few nights. But as indicated in the first response, I believe it is best to not delve into that aspect of the rented unit, but as indicated stick with the By-Laws and Rules as noted. Thanks for all your input -- I appreciate it. JoS, IMO, that person could stay overnight 6 nights out of 7 and still be just a "guest"! A guest is someone who's name is not on the lease. As for violatons of the assn docs, that is the problem of the owner even when the renter commits the violation. The assn should only be dealing with the prop. owner. The owner, in turn, should deal with his tenant. IMO, the assn should only be concerned with any violations this renter -- or his guests -- might be committing.

KirkW1
(Texas)

Posts:1110

10/10/2008 9:10 AM
I would decide first what the real concern is. IF you really are only looking to have emergency information, then request it for his guest. Put a note, that this is only a frequent guest. If the concern is enforcement, then don't bother. The amount of time spent proving (or even defining) what constitutes a resident versus a guest can be better spent. If you have legitimate concerns then you could mention that there have been complaints when asking about emergency contact information. But be friendly. IF you are not friendly, then you won't get any information.

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