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RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
To all,
If you recall I read a statement to the Board at a Board meeting and they seemed to be resistant to include it. It has sinc been included in the draft.

At a comment section by owners I said.

“With regard to the August Manager’s Report, by definition this is a report. The editorial comment to the effect
that no money in the past has ever been used for an audit or review of the Books and Records by the owners,
, should be stricken and this report and any other report should be scrutinized for appropriate
content.

“As evidenced by today’s meeting, audit procedures and the like are mandated by our documents to be an
owner responsibility. The truth is, there has never been an accounting as directed by our By-Laws requiring a
yearly certified accounting. That is not editorial comment, that is a fact.”

************************************
Then at the end of the meeting where comments are allowed to address items cover in the minutes, I said.

"I think it is important in regards to the "audit" topic that all realize that the fiduciary responsibilities is not only a Board function , but it is also the responsibility of all the owners."

They handled this by stating that; "A member made a statement that they didn't feel was helpful and did not contribute to the business at hand and the statement was rejected."

Also in the minutes was the Managers Report with no changes.

Now really folks, I am not going to get bent out of shape by anyting the Board does, I will object or will interject if I think I can help, but I find the whole episode bizarre. We have a policy about making statements during a Board Meeting, I followed the policy to the letter.

Now there are some will say the Board has the authority to handle this the way they did. I would tend to disagree because as we have said many times on this site the Board at times has to consider the individual circumstances. This is our third OPEN Board meeting ever. I am the only person that has ever made a statement at a Board Meeting. Surely the Board is sending the wrong signals when they don't address my statement. I was really glad that they included my statement finally, but in reflection I see nothing that happened as some kind of invitation for owners to go before the Board and contribute. I think I will drop it and move on. Today, a group of us are going to go out and plant some Fall Mums. A pleasure to do.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertR1 on 09/27/2008 6:29 AM
To all,
If you recall I read a statement to the Board at a Board meeting and they seemed to be resistant to include it. It has sinc been included in the draft.

At a comment section by owners I said.

“With regard to the August Manager’s Report, by definition this is a report. The editorial comment to the effect
that no money in the past has ever been used for an audit or review of the Books and Records by the owners,
, should be stricken and this report and any other report should be scrutinized for appropriate
content.

“As evidenced by today’s meeting, audit procedures and the like are mandated by our documents to be an
owner responsibility. The truth is, there has never been an accounting as directed by our By-Laws requiring a
yearly certified accounting. That is not editorial comment, that is a fact.”

************************************
Then at the end of the meeting where comments are allowed to address items cover in the minutes, I said.

"I think it is important in regards to the "audit" topic that all realize that the fiduciary responsibilities is not only a Board function , but it is also the responsibility of all the owners."

They handled this by stating that; "A member made a statement that they didn't feel was helpful and did not contribute to the business at hand and the statement was rejected."

Also in the minutes was the Managers Report with no changes.

Now really folks, I am not going to get bent out of shape by anyting the Board does, I will object or will interject if I think I can help, but I find the whole episode bizarre. We have a policy about making statements during a Board Meeting, I followed the policy to the letter.

Now there are some will say the Board has the authority to handle this the way they did. I would tend to disagree because as we have said many times on this site the Board at times has to consider the individual circumstances. This is our third OPEN Board meeting ever. I am the only person that has ever made a statement at a Board Meeting. Surely the Board is sending the wrong signals when they don't address my statement. I was really glad that they included my statement finally, but in reflection I see nothing that happened as some kind of invitation for owners to go before the Board and contribute. I think I will drop it and move on. Today, a group of us are going to go out and plant some Fall Mums. A pleasure to do.


Robert,

Just out of curiosity, why did you think the manager's statement about the audit should be stricken from his report? IMO,he was just stating his opinion. If any board member thought it wasn't accurate they could have commented on it. Also, I'm curious to know why you think the member's have a fiduciary duty to the assn. The member's don't operate the assn, the board does. Fiduciary means trust; ergo the member's place their trust in the BOD to do their job properly.

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Robert - at the next meeting, after the Treasurer's report, then get up and make your point about there being no audit. Have the bylaw handy that states the requirment for an audit.

WHY have they not held an audit for so long?

Request that the Board motion for an audit. If that does not work, then begin the procedure for a special meeting of the members to vote to require the board to conduct an audit.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:

Robert,

Just out of curiosity, why did you think the manager's statement about the audit should be stricken from his report? IMO,he was just stating his opinion. If any board member thought it wasn't accurate they could have commented on it. Also, I'm curious to know why you think the member's have a fiduciary duty to the assn. The member's don't operate the assn, the board does. Fiduciary means trust; ergo the member's place their trust in the BOD to do their job properly.

******************************

MaryA,
Well you are right, the managers statement is an opinion, it is also a policy opinion. Managers do not agrue Policy in their reports. They may be asked for opinions and reports, opinions are discussed among the Board to set policy, policy is not always determined by open discussion and any policy adopted needs no Managers approval. That is a Board vote. Think for a moment what an audit requires. It does not require a Board presence, it require a Bookkeepers presence. The Board might have some trepidation about what an audit reveals, a manager that signs the checks and keeps the books and makes reports and submits financial data would likely have concern. I am not suggesting wrong doing. But cut it as you want an audit is an examination of someone's effort to do a job.

The country is going to be asked to pay 700B for the lack of fiduciary responsibility of those trustees that didn't do their job well. I think that is clear. Now don't you think the people share in this fiasco? We paid to enable the horrendous mistakes that were made and we will pay to clear it up. Although I have no differences about the Board having fiduciary responsibility, you realize they were voted in and agreed to assume the fiduciary position. If they fail in this responsibility the member can oust them and take away their fiduciary position. I belive that in effect means the memmbers have fiduciary responsibility, because they can assign it or take it away. And I further believe that members of home owners associations have fiduciary responsibilities to each othe and should be active in membership activities and serve as "policemen" to help insure the Board receives all the help they can get to support them in their position. If they see waste, report it to board. If they see mismanagement, report it to board, if they BELIEVE they have amy cause to notify the Board they have a mandate to do that. Now I know this is all pie in the sky, but it is also a good way to participate, and if it doesn't reach anyone else, or the Board wants to play word games. so be it. It has no effect on my convictions.

"it is what it is."
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Susan,
Thanks for your interest. You questions are valid and your methods have been considered. My action is simply an effort on my part to try and spread the issue around in a bigger splotch. One more person asking the same sort of questions, I believe, defuses in part the reactions of anyone objecting to having an audit.

Not suggesting the followig is an example but to explain. If a Board member or two are supporting an action, you as an owner, feel worthy, it helps to go before the Board and support those members you agree with. You do not have to refer to them individually and create deviding lines but you can certainl;y voice yout private opinion as a creditable member.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Robert - take the emotion out of this issue!

If the bylaws say an audit MUST be done and it has not, then the Board is non-compliant with its own governing documents!!

That is very serious.

I asked WHY they had not conducted an audit for so long.

As a member, you certainly have a right to ask why and to tell them that they are in non-compliance for the requirement of an audit or audit review. It may be a cost issue.

At the least, they owe an explanation, for sure.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Susan,
Emotion plays little part in answering your question. Surely you understand that Boards have almost complete autonomy to do what they want given a disinterested membership and absentee Boardmembers. It is not something you can decree from a members standing, it has to come from the Board or owners. Therein lies the answer to your question. It is not a matter of the Board being unaware, it is not a matter of the lawyer being unaware, and it is not a matter of the membership being unaware.

I am surprised you used the excuse that money was an issue. Not after twenty years, wouldn't you agree. You budget the money at the begining of your year, and you do the audit. I am so removed emotionally from this that I don't even care if they do an audit every other year, a certified review would provide. with an audit every five years. No Susan, if the reason is required, it is all of the above, not money.

I also know that this may sound suspecious to some doing their job well, but I am also sure this is not the worst run condo in the world. We do some good stuff and over the years are still alive and looking to better things. But someone made this track record and if we or the Board deny the past, we will make the same mistakes in the future.

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