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TamaraW
(Ohio)

Posts:180

10/03/2008 9:32 AM
I am in the process of getting that clarification, but oddly enough nobody will respond. NOT only do they want to give her this allowance, they want to open it up to the whole community to do without approval. EVERYONE seemed to have forgotten that this will cost us - in whole - when it comes time to get lawncare bids. They will be higher because of the liability due to the spacing of our homes and the number of unattended kids and animals that WILL get into it.

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1362

10/03/2008 10:33 AM
Since you're president I would call an emergency meeting to hash this all out. Besides the concerns you voiced about the pea gravel; I'm more concerned with the appearance of impropriate approval being given to a member of the Board. It sets a very bad precedent. Not only did the BOD approve an un-approved material but they gave her an extra foot to do it in. If the BOD decides to go ahead and approve it, I would insist that your objections be noted in the minutes. Some things the BOD might want to consider, if she moves or dies who is going to be responsible for it? What if the next owner doesn't want it? Who is going to return the common element to its pre-gravel state? We had a homeowner take common element next to her patio approx 8'X10' (supposedly with permission of the BOD although a search of the records revealed no approval) put in edging; fill the area with gravel & pavers. She planted roses and shrubs and had a wrought iron bench. All in all it looked very nice until she died with no next of kin. The Association spent a small fortune getting rid of all of her "improvements".

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1362

10/03/2008 10:59 AM
Not to hijack the thread but while we're talking the merits of mulch, organic vs. rubber. We had a rash of dogs in our area getting sick from ingesting cocoa mulch made from the hull of the coco bean. It's sort of the dog eating a large amount of dark chocolate, something to keep in mind if you have pets. http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/cocoamulch.asp

TamaraW
(Ohio)

Posts:180

10/03/2008 1:36 PM
Well, this is getting technical. We rule our meetings by Roberts Rule of Order. Our governing documents state that a quorum of the majority must represent a vote. We are required to have a Board of 6. We currently only have 5. I was absent, leaving 4 at the meeting. Homeowners cannot vote on their own exterior application improvements due to conflict of interest when they are on the Board. That would leave 3 yes votes. That would not establish majority of community through the BOD's. Majority would be 4 votes, even if one is absent. According to this we would need 4 favorable votes to establish majority. Correct?

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2157

10/03/2008 3:41 PM
Posted By TamaraW on 10/03/2008 1:36 PM Well, this is getting technical. We rule our meetings by Roberts Rule of Order. Our governing documents state that a quorum of the majority must represent a vote. We are required to have a Board of 6. We currently only have 5. I was absent, leaving 4 at the meeting. Homeowners cannot vote on their own exterior application improvements due to conflict of interest when they are on the Board. That would leave 3 yes votes. That would not establish majority of community through the BOD's. Majority would be 4 votes, even if one is absent. According to this we would need 4 favorable votes to establish majority. Correct? Tamara, With a 5 member board, the quorum to meet is 3 members. If there were 4 present a majority vote is 3 (50% + 1). The quorum to meet is based upon the number of board members currently serving on the board. The majority vote is based upon the number of board members present. The fact that you are required to have a 6-member board is meaningless.

TamaraW
(Ohio)

Posts:180

10/05/2008 10:10 AM
OK, here is what I was told. There was not even a motion or a vote taken to approve this at the meeting. SO it is a moot point now? Another BOD has called me to call a special meeting on this. Do I even need too? If I do, do I invite the BOD who is wanting this approved? When the BOD decide on an Architectural Improvement Form, the homeowner is notified if they are approved/unapproved then if they do not like it they can request a hearing. She is holding her hearing now.

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2157

10/05/2008 3:05 PM
Posted By TamaraW on 10/05/2008 10:10 AM OK, here is what I was told. There was not even a motion or a vote taken to approve this at the meeting. SO it is a moot point now? Another BOD has called me to call a special meeting on this. Do I even need too? If I do, do I invite the BOD who is wanting this approved? When the BOD decide on an Architectural Improvement Form, the homeowner is notified if they are approved/unapproved then if they do not like it they can request a hearing. She is holding her hearing now. Tamara, Yes, ALL board members should be notified of the meeting which should eliminate any problems about establishing a quorum. The board member who's A/C request is being considered would excuse himself/herself from the discussion and vote (a conflict of interest). Just my opinion!

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2796

10/05/2008 3:48 PM
Mary, I have the same opinion. Voting on a matter that involves ones self would be a conflict of interest and definitely not allowed.

TamaraW
(Ohio)

Posts:180

10/05/2008 9:54 PM
I share the same opinion on this matter. I tried to understand Roberts Rule on this and had a conflict within myself of what it says. The BOD whose form we are discussing also needs to understand this and be willing to excuse herself, correct? We have never had this problem before so this is new for me, and quite frustrating because she is also my neighbor.

TamaraW
(Ohio)

Posts:180

10/07/2008 3:52 PM
Well, this should put the issue to rest. I sent this to the Board. I am recovering from a small surgery at this time with another one coming and do not have the time to call a special meeting. This is from the lawncare company who provides lawn service to us. Tamara, You recently contacted me regarding my thoughts on installing pea gravel in the landscape beds, even if it is only used as a border. I have seen it used many times in various locations, and the end result is never a good one. My professional opinion is as follows: 1. Pea gravel is easily disbursed throughout the entire landscape. Mowing and weed eating anywhere near where the gravel is located will throw the gravel in all directions. 2. If the property experiences a heavy rain, it is easily washed into the grass. Once it is in the turf areas, it is impossible to remove. 3. It also seems to be a magnet for children. We all know that kids will be kids when it comes to throwing rocks. 4. As a contractor, it is a virtual nightmare. Mowing, weed eating and blowing will toss the gravel into siding, windows, cars, etc. at a very high rate of speed, causing severe damage. Most landscape/mowing contractors will want to place a phrase in the contract releasing them from any liability for damages (i.e. siding, broken windows, etc.) caused by thrown/flying pea gravel. 5. Allowing residents to install pea gravel in their landscape will cause additional issues for your Board when they are trying to determine damage liabilities. Especially when your contractor may state in their contract that they are to be held harmless from damages resulting from pea gravel, and the residents feel they should be made whole for any damages to their homes and/or vehicles. I apologize for my biased opinion, however, I have been in this business over 20 years, and have yet to have a good experience when pea gravel is installed as part of the landscape in areas adjacent to turf grass. Regards,

TamaraW
(Ohio)

Posts:180

10/16/2008 6:48 AM
CONCLUSION - Pea Gravel voted down. 3 feet of space voted down. The BOD unanimously agrees we should stick with our allowance of 2 feet and mulch. Shouldn't of been this hard, but oh well. Thanks everyone for your support on this.

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2796

10/16/2008 11:48 AM
Tamara, It was a learning experience for all of us. Now we also have the cons of pea gravel from a professional. Thanks and good job.

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