question about voting

Roberts Rules will not even discuss proxies, so you won't get a ruling there.

But as I see it, the quorum was decided with live bodies AND the proxies.

Any voting that took place would consider valid ballots only. 100 cast - 10 disqualified = 90.

Your "majority" would mean that 46 or more votes is needed to approve the vote.

Your bylaws - they will tell you that a "majority of votes cast" is needed - if that's what you are trying to figure out.

What DO your bylaws say about the needed votes to approve a motion?

P.S. Is it the YES / NO part that is confusing? Usually the vote is to APPROVE the motion, not vote against it.

More details, please.

Let's say there was a petition to adopt a proposal to allow the building of fences in the community. The Board has decided to adopt a policy of no fences and directs the ARC to deny all applications for fences. The By-Laws and covenants don't mention fences at all, but the Board is enforcing a no fence policy. The petition to allow the building of fences was sufficient to call a special meeting and the question on the agenda is whether or not to allow fences. If the policy is adopted the Board will have to determine the specifics.

The Board sends out ballots. The ballots allow for three options, yes to adopt the proposal, no to reject the proposal and the last option is to be counted towards quorum without a vote.

Lets say quorum is 99 If there were 111 votes cast in person, or by ballot and 10 were deemed illegitimate (homeowners not in good standing or ballot was not filled out correctly), 10 were mailed in for the establishment of a quorum (thus no vote on the issue) and the rest were yes/ no votes. When the ballots were counted the results were as follows;

The number of votes to adopt was 48 and the number to reject was 41.

The question I have is even though the "popular vote" established a greater number. Was the number of votes for or against enough to constitute a majority given that the number of legitimate ballots was 101?

If the quorum was 99 and there were 101 legitimate votes cast. If 1/2 of 101 is 50.5 (rounding up to 51). Thus the majority is either the greater of the number of votes cast, or is it 1/2 the quorum number +1 or 52.

Which is correct:

It would have taken 52 votes to pass the motion.

It would simply take a majority of the number of yes/ no votes cast.

I want to make it clear I don't think the issue of the fence is what's important here and that isen't what is important for the sake of this discussion.
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Think about this hypothetical before you answer.

The community has over 300 units.

Our quorum drops by 1/2 for each meeting quorum is not reached. Let's say we have had two meetings and quorum wasn’t reached. Quorum is 40 for the third meeting. Now lets say a small group of motivated people encourages people to send there ballots in just to establish a quorum (perhaps telling them that the meetings are wasting homeowner money).

37 people send in there ballots to establish a quorum and 4 people actually vote (in person at the meeting or by ballot). THe number of ballots in person or by proxy exceeded the quorum number by 1 (41). The yes/ no votes are 3 votes to adopt and 1 vote to reject.

Should the issue be adopted?

The situation is this; no matter how unlikely if we accept the issue in my first example, we have to accept the issue in my second example.

Before I weigh in with my opinion (keep you all obgective), I would like a few opinions and would love something definitive.

Our by-laws talk about the majority in the section under elections (the majority is defined is 1 more than 1/2 of the number of votes represented in person or by proxy), but it does not speak to the adoption of issues at a special meeting (the HOA attorney says that you can't assume that statments under elections apply to special meetings).

I've tried to be as through as possible and would like to focus on procedure, not the issues, unless you belive the issue effects the procedure.

Thank you

ChrisB4 - Quorum is those present by person or proxy. The 10 disqualified votes make up quorum because they were present to vote (in person or proxy). Majority is derived from the aggregate of the qualified votes. Out of your 110 only 90 were qualified, correct? So majority of 90 is 46.

ChrisB4,

The ballot not being filled out correctly may count towards quorum, just depends on what was not filled out.

Your hypothetical and math doesn't add up/make sense.

You wrote, "Lets say quorum is 99".

QUESTIONS: HOW DO YOU FIGURE, WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE 300 IS NECESSARY TO CONDUCT BUSINESS?

You wrote, "If there were 111 votes cast in person, or by ballot and 10 were deemed illegitimate". THAT WOULD EQUAL 101 TO COUNT TOWARDS A VOTE.

You wrote, "10 were mailed in for the establishment of a quorum (thus no vote on the issue". THAT WOULD EQUAL 91 TO COUNT TOWARDS A VOTE.

"The number of votes to adopt was 48 and the number to reject was 41."
48 + 41 = 89 SO WHAT HAPPENED TO THE MISSING 2 VOTES (91 - 89)?

The hypothetical and the original example have nothing to do with each other. The numbers are only important in the sense that they demonstrate the point I'm trying to make. I'll make the point again trying to keep it as short and simple as possible.

If you have a quorum of 100 (please assume this is the quorum number)

There are 100 votes/ballots in person or by proxy (thus just making the quorum)

10 of the ballots/proxies are solely for the establishment of quorum

90 ballots are yes/no.

how many votes constitutes a majority?

Is the majority 1/2 of 100+1, or 51 (the total number of votes in person or by proxy/ballot).

OR

Is it 1/2 the number of ballots/ voting proxies 1/2 of 90+1 or 46(thus not including the proxies used to establish quorum).

Thanks

46. The other 10 are "attending" via proxy but not voting on the issue, sort of an absent abstention. Unless your docs state otherwise, the majority of aye/nay votes should carry the day.

This is where the problem lies. believe it or not, the By-Laws do not state how to adopt a motion or proposal at a special or annual meeting. The only time it addresses this issue is under election, where it says what #2 says above.

Our By-Laws are clearly lacking these elements and I have petitioned our Board to create a By-Laws committee to address these issues. Some of you may remember that I sat on the committee to create these By-Laws, and to my defense I told the committee they were inadequate, though I admit there have been issues I didn't anticipate. My plan going forward would be to prioritize the issues in our By-Laws, and tackle the sections one at a time, do what work we can and seek professional help to tie up loose ends. Ok I'm off track....

The point is there a generally accepted way to deal with these issues? If not that's ok, I'm going to recommend the Board adopt some sort of ad-hoc policy going forward, until the By-Laws can be corrected.

Chris,

I don't know that most bylaws even address how to make or pass a motion. This is a parlimentary procedure. If the bylaws were to address every parliamentary procedure you'd have another book of ROR! The question I asked is what do your bylaws say with regard to VOTING on an issue. Do they require

1) the majority of the votes cast by members eligible to vote, or
2) the majority of the votes cast by those present at the meeting, whether in person or by proxy

That is the basic determination that needs to be made b/4 you can determine how many votes were required for the quorum and for the ballot vote. Isn't that what your question was about?

At a special or annual meeting of the members, any member can make any motion they wish to make. The members can vote to adopt that motion IF it is determined the motion was valid (i.e.,doesn't contradict any provision of the gov. doc., etc.) The chair must recognize any member wishing to be recognized. Afterall, this is a meeting of the members not a board meeting. Frankly I don't understand what your concerns are in regard to your bylaws.