Hummer

I believe the Ford Expedition is based off the F-150 and sits on a truck chassis. You may want to contact Ford. They can probably offer specifics.

But what about the Hummer?

Thanks all for the information. To answer a few questions. No your vehicle does not have to be in garage. Yes the Ford Expedtion is on a F-150 truck chasis. To Donna I don't want to go that whole court thing route. Been there done that. Our docs were updated in 95, but sure do need re-doing. Now to find some people to do it? Forget it....they all disappear. Just complainers left..Thanks again guys..LaVerne Florida

Laverne,
I found this on the A.G.s site but I would not try to use this as a court arguement.

Motor Vehicle §681.102(14), F.S. (1995); §681.102(15), F.S. (1997)
Davis v. AM General, 2000-0717/ORL (Fla. NMVAB October 9, 2000).
The Manufacturer contended that the Consumer’s Hummer was a military off-road vehicle adapted for
civilian use and designed to de driven over rough terrain and carry a heavy load. The Manufacturer
argued that the Consumer’s claim should be dismissed, because the Hummer was a truck weighing
more than 10,000 pounds gross vehicle weight and as such, did not constitute a “motor vehicle” as
defined by the statute. The Manufacturer pointed to the federal vehicle identification number
classification of the vehicle as a “heavy truck” and the gross vehicle weight rating as support. The
Board agreed that the Hummer was a truck weighing more than 10,000 pounds gross vehicle weight
and dismissed the case.

If your documents are written to specify no trucks or vehicles built on a truck chassis then they should hold up against the Hummer. Regardless of the owner's insistence that this is an SUV. The catch is when the author specified "built on a truck chassis."

Having said that, you may want to look to your community and see how they feel on the issue. Personally I tend to think along the lines of "gas pig" when I see a Hummer. But aside from that, they don't look obnoxious to me. If you wish to continue to keep such huge vehicles out, you may even want to look at adding a weight limit. This is what the IRS does leaving Hummers and other monster SUVs attractive. Because their gross vehicle weight exceeds a certain limit they are considered a truck or tractor for tax reasons. (There is a limit on how much of a car's purchase is considered deductible to avoid luxury cars.)

LaverneB - For a moment, put the definition, aesthetic, and environmental considerations of trucks, SUV's, and Hummers aside. Your situation is one where reasonableness must IMHO be the overriding factor. Only your association can decide if it's reasonable to restrict certain types of vehicles and force owners to comply. Consider the current housing crisis and the benefit of having new owners, and retaining ones established within your association.

BODs have the power of discretion.

Just because there is a "rule" doesn't mean it has to be pursued all-the-way-to-court.

Not every traffic stop results in a citation.

If the consensus on any subject is that the rule is unreasonable, then the rule should be changed. Simply ignoring a rule is not a good policy. It breeds disrespect and disregard for the rules.

Contrary to some popular beliefs covenants can only be enforced if a court finds them reasonable.

Covenants generally give HOAs the right but not the obligation to enforce their covenants.

HOAs have the ability to determine which covenants are reasonable and enforceable.

Even then they can still lose.

RW,
FYI,

The Judge in our case ruled "That the covenant is clearly written and enforceable" He ruled that the BOD did not selectively enforce, did indeed have the right to enforce said covenant and the BOD charge did not use estoppel

So in your opinion where does "the Board has the fudituary duty to enforce the CC&Rs" fit? If Boards do not have an obligation, then what purpose do they serve other than to sit and give opinions.

I live in S. Fl. My opinions are based on Fl. Case Law and personal experiences.

Each case rests on its own merit.

Some BOD initiated "CC&R" cases are lost!
As has been [repeatedly] documented, even lauded, here.

When forseeable loss of life or property is at risk, an HOA could be (would be) culpable for not protecting its membership's or corporate property.

Arguing over something you cannot see is zealous

Besides there has been no evidence of a complaint here.

RW,

I too am in S. Fl, land of thousands of HOAs. or I was for 7 years, still own 2 properties there. Yes, some BOD cases are lost and some are won. That does not mean that the Board should not have initiated some of the cases. We also see where Judges make errors as we feel ours did. That happens often and then there is no true justice. To persue an appeal is where one can laud our BOD for saying that enough is enough. We finally had a definitive answer which is what everyone wanted. Without going the court route leaves many issues in the dark as to the enforcebility of some of these poorly written documents which Boards inherit from the Developers.

So you still haven't given us an answer as what to do with different interpretations of a covenant when both sides see it totally different. Ignore it and hope that it goes away? Just brush off members who are clearly calling on a Board to take action? What's your answer? Arguing over something that you cannot see is zealous? Do you mean trucks parked outside, fences erected where they shouldn't be, members in total disrespect for the rules? Not sure where you cannot see these.

GeraldT4, our docs clearly state "no trucks or anything ,built on a truck chasis" PERIOD. I do believe at this day and times of tough housing sales the docs need updating. But until that is done, I am only following the docs recorded 28 years ago. I have 216 homeowners that will be down my back, in no time flat! I myself drive a BlazerLT. But, it is not on a truck body. The home I am talking about is a rental home. Thanks will keep you updated,,LaVerne B Fl

Laverne, I believe you’d be well served not interjecting “The home I am talking about is a rental home.” into your resolution of this issue.

RW,

You may not agree, but judges do use case law from other jurisdictions when making their rulings.

Kirk,
Couple of thoughts.

In our nation there is a expression of public policy that protects minorities from the tyranny of the majority. (There is also the tyranny of the minority, but I won't get into that here.) Protections are established to protect minority rights and freedoms.

In my way of thinking, if the automobile is registered as a private personal "passenger" vehicle, then the board should stay out of it, regardless of the type of chassis, etc.

If the vehicle is registered as a commercial vehicle, an RV, or something other than a private, passenger vehicle, their is a legitimate reason to act.

REPOSTED due to typos...

The OP:

"Our docs read no, trucks or any vehicle built on a truck chasis. We have a want to be new owner who said the Hummer is listed as a SUV. After lots of research, I found it is built on a truck chasis, but when you go to reg. it it says SUV! Now this Hummer does not fit in garage, so thats out. They are threating to get attorney. Ford Expedition, does any one know out there if that SUV is on truck chasis....the other board allowed one in here thinking its a SUV. He had ti sell his truck after many letters and attorneys fees( he had to pay) the truck had to go..now I wondering OK out there.......Thanks in advance....LaVerneB--Florida"
------------------------------------------------------------------------

In this case there has been no complaint (yet disclosed) from the MEMBERSHIP.

It appears to be someONE fishing. Maybe even with a bias (against renters, nice cars, etc.)

Check your docs.
I doubt you'll find any language regarding duties of an Officer or Director, or directives regarding the operation of the corporation, which says or includes (and I'm paraphrasing here): "you must go look for violations" and "you must do so with this or that regularity".

The MEMBERSHIP should decide what is a violation and what is not.

Why would you worry about "... 216 homeowners that will be down my back, in no time flat!"

And...No, I would not: "Just brush off members who are clearly calling on a Board to take action?"

If a MEMBER or group of MEMBERS has a problem there are adequate provisions (in FL.) for the membership to address or request items of be put on the agenda.

They [members] have a legal obligation to voice their concerns within the due process described by law.
i.e.PUT IT IN WRITING. (a.k.a fish or cut bait)

THEN the BOD must address it. AS THEY SEE FIT. But, it is AT THE REQUEST of the MEMBERSHIP.

It's not that hard.

To RW,

RW1
(Florida)

Posts:101

08/22/2008 10:05 PM Quote Reply
Is a Hummer built on "a truck chassis?

Please [BOD] don't spend my money to find out what a Judge thinks!

Fiduciary Duty:

Noun
The legal duty of a fiduciary to act in the best interests of the beneficiary.

SO, FUDITUARY DUTY TO YOU MEANS THAT NO ACTION SHOULD BE TAKEN UNLESS THERE IS A COMPLAINT FROM A MEMBER? IT MEANS DON'T SPEND MY MONEY ON A VIOLATOR? SIR, WITH DUE RESPECT, WHERE DO YOU COME FROM?

Let's not go off the deep end, here folks. "Fiduciary duty" is open to reasonable interpretation. It comes back, in part, to the shall/may argument regarding enforcement of covenants. Part of the fiduciary duty a board exercises is to determine how and when to enforce covenants. It may be a judgment call.

I don't know Florida law, so I will remain silent as to the specific issue at hand. Frankly, I don't know how one defines a "truck chassis." But like Kirk I do not like Hummers.

In Hoosierland it is easier to distinguish between private passenger vehicles and other types of vehicles. The DMV makes the distinction. Private passenger vehicles are OK, other types of vehicles (commercial, trucks, buses, trailers, RVs, etc.) are not. Unfortunately, a Hummer can be licensed as a private passenger vehicle.

What ever happened with GM's "review" of the Hummer line? I was hoping that the whole thing would be scrapped.

BTW: while looking around for info on the Hummer, I found this article about Hummer vandalism in a neighborhood. If you have owners leaving their Hummers out, they might want to read it.

Hummer Rage? Here on HOATalk? Nah. Couldn't be!