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ThomasS5
(Georgia)

Posts:9

08/19/2008 4:51 PM
I am the Vice President of an HOA in Atlanta, Ga. Our HOA is only a year old and having difficulty (to say the least) in our collection of dues. Currently, we are at a 66% delinquency rate. My issue is that my Board President and Treasurer do not seem to be overly concerned to offer alternatives or to start collection / attorney processess. We are coming up with elections and I have been considering another run. On a personal note, the Treasurer and I do not get along at all. When I asked for a copy of this last months report for July I was told it was "confidential". I have gotten the report some months back, so I am unsure of the issue now. I have looked in all CC&R's and bylaws and see nothing about privledged reports. I do know as a homeowner I am intitled to reports without the confidentials (name, addresses, etc ??), but I did not think I would have this issue as a Board Member. Dont I technically have a right to get copied on this report or is my Treasurer just afraid I know what she is not doing?? (Side note is the fact the Treasurer is behind two years on her dues). Please Advise! Tom in Atlanta

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2796

08/19/2008 5:16 PM
Thomas, EEEEE GADS! Someone better close the barn door before all of the horses are gone. What do your documents say as for delinquencies? Can you place leins against an owner for non payment of dues? This is a horrendous amount to be behind for operating an association. Also, what does the Georgia HOA Law say about rights to inspection of documents? As a Board member, you have all of the rights to review and inspect any association documents. Budgets and expenditures should be openly reviewed at least every quarter but preferrably each month by the entire board. You had better get this Board together and have some major straightening out . This is unacceptable business practices from all of you who are the caretakers of this association.

ThomasS5
(Georgia)

Posts:9

08/19/2008 5:40 PM
thanks Donna!

SusanW1
(Michigan)

Posts:2117

08/20/2008 5:14 AM
The NAMES of the delinquent accounts may be "confidential", but certainly not the amounts or the status of the collection. Our delinquncies are listed by address and amount, only. These are gone over evey meeting with a report from the treasurer on the collection process for each one. This is part of her Treasurer's report.

ThomasS5
(Georgia)

Posts:9

08/20/2008 6:18 AM
Thanks Susan.. I appreciate that. This first board is very much not successful. I have been reading and researching as much as I can ...and working with our Mgmt company. The mgmt company insists they have tried to send overdue delinquencies to liens, atty's, etc..but our board prez wont hear of it.

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1362

08/20/2008 10:18 PM
Thomas first off if you don't have one, the BOD needs to draft and implement a collection policy outlining the steps to be taken and it needs to be followed. If the president is unwilling to follow through then s/he needs to be moved to another position, anyway the decision on whether or not to lien or foreclose should be by a vote of the whole Board, not one person. And if the treasurer is truly two years in arrears then she shouldn't be on the BOD anymore. Most documents state as a qualification to serve that the member must be in good standing. I'm not familiar with GA law but even if you aren't allowed the information as an H/O you are as a BOD member. How many are on your BOD?

ThomasS5
(Georgia)

Posts:9

08/21/2008 8:22 AM
thanks Glen. The board is four of us. However, the VP spot I am in was appointed, not elected. Therefore the mgmt company told me any confidentiality reports are only viewed by the elected board. For now I am fine..elections are next week anyhow. I just wanted to see the stats, whats at atty's office, etc. Instead my treasurer wrote an email to me and told me to "know my place and position"..but she and I have had numerous disagreements before. Rather than answering my questions about stats, solutions, etc. the treasurer just went on a personal attack of me. I simply responded to her I was done with her..and not wasting anymore time on her. We do have a collection process but it seems aas we are not following it at all. The last three or four BOD meetings have been about daily business not including any financials, etc. I was told from the treasurer that herself and the president know the stats, etc. Yet again, the treasurer doesnt discuss any of this in the BOD meetings...if and when she shows up.I was going to have a petition signed to have her removed, but with the elections so close..I am just counting on the fact that the homeowners know what the woman is all about. Yes alot of drama here in Atlanta,lol...

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1676

08/21/2008 8:59 AM
Posted By ThomasS5 on 08/21/2008 8:22 AM thanks Glen. The board is four of us. However, the VP spot I am in was appointed, not elected. Therefore the mgmt company told me any confidentiality reports are only viewed by the elected board. I grew up on a farm, so I've smelled a load of horsesh*t in my time once or twice. But that's about the biggest load I've sniffed in a long, long time. Please point to me in your documents where "appointed" board members and "elected" board members are not of the same class of board member, and thus do not have the same rights as all board members?

ThomasS5
(Georgia)

Posts:9

08/21/2008 9:14 AM
Really Glen? I wondered the same. I do know our bylaws state that any appointed board members do not vote, only elected board members, but that is all I could find. Below is what the mgmt company told me via email... "First and foremost, there are only directors of the Board (in this case, Mr. Harris and Elaine) that are privy to this particular type of report. They are the decision makers in the community. You must hold one of these positions to view this type of report. Tom, you are considered a board member or Board member at Large. In this instance, that really means that you have no higher power than a homeowner to view the records. There are certain records you can see and certain you have no authority to view. This happens to be one that you can’t review because it has confidential information on it. You can view other records that a homeowner can view if the proper procedure is followed to view them. There is no personal issues for you to see the reports except that you are not legally privy to see them. You guys are bound by the GA Nonprofit code and your covenants. Only Board members can view confidential reports with peoples balances, and other personal information on it." I am trying to research as much as possible on information I can locate. I love research and if I am told,NO, I always want to know why...any direction or thoughts is greatly appreciated...

SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:79

08/21/2008 9:40 AM
First of all, what's wrong with everyone else on the board? Obviously, the president and treasurer don't know what they're doing (or just imcompetent) - do the other board members think as you do? If so, it's two vs. everyone else, and if you're the majority, you can compel them to do their jobs. It may also help to see what some of the other residents think - if they all show up enmass to a meeting and demand information from the treasurer, she'll have no choice but to comply And speaking of the treasurer, why is she on the board with two years of delinquencies? In our community, board membes can get tossed for several reasons, one being 60 days or more behind on delinquencies, because homeowners lose their voting rights at that point if they don't pay. If your bylaws or CCRs address this issue, I'd suggest that she be removed immediately. Finally, with a 66% delinquency, it's time every account be reviewed and see who's really far behind and why. If your governing documents give the association the right to file a lawsuit or foreclose, you will probably have no choice but to take those steps. We also have a high delinquency rate and we discussed them with the president of our property management company on Tuesday - he's going to review the accounts and make recommendations as to what should be written off or pursued. I'm treasurer of our HOA and it'll be interesting to see what he comes up with. The words "write off" came up a lot and while I know that will happen on some of the accounts, I intend to persuade the board to exhaust every collection option we have before making that decision.

DwightT
(Idaho)

Posts:443

08/21/2008 10:04 AM
Thomas - Maybe I missed it, but why were you appointed instead of elected? Where you appointed by the remaining Board to replace an elected director who resigned? If so then you should have the same rights and authority as that director had. However if this was just a special appointment (maybe because nobody wanted the V.P. position so you were appointed to fill it?), then it could be that you only have whatever authority the the Board specifies. If that is the case, then the Board should have specified the duties and authority of your position at the time of the appointment, not just making it up as they go. Whichever was the case, the policies should be specified in your Bylaws. Here are the relevant sections from ours: "Special Appointments" - The Board may elect such other officers as the affairs of the Association may require, each of whom shall hold office for such period, have such authority, and perform such duties as the Board may from time to time determine. "Vacancies" - A vacancy in any office may be filled by appointment by the Board. The officer appointed to such vacancy shall serve for the remainder of the term of the officer he replaces.

SidneyP
(Florida)

Posts:276

08/21/2008 10:51 AM
Those who read my post know that I am the Treasurer (only since Mar 31st/08) of our Association and mailed in a complaint to the DBPR about our PM not doing her job but most importantly not having a CAM license. I finally received a return letter telling me they will be investiageting.....here's where I need help again. Do I send another complaint letter. Last week, I wrote the PM/Board for the upteen times about a unit next to mine that was abandoned well over a year ago, about or maybe has been forclosed on. The last tentants who lived there stuffed some very (animal nasty) furniture in the shed and left the place filthy. The bank changed the locks but has done nothing else. Bugs every where. I ask the Board for help, I have been brushed off all this time, telling me they can't do anything about it. In our CC&R's it does state that it is the Boards fiduciary duty to look out for the HO's health, safty and welfare and of the community. I stated that I felt this fell in that catagory....The e-mail I received back from the President said it was my reopnsibility as treasurer to gather the contact information for this HO. We pay a MC/PM dearly to handle these things and besides I have always been told to butt out, the MC/PM is in charge of the finances not me. So, I e-mailed the PM/Board and told them since the President had given me this responsibility/ this athority to handle this delinquent account then she has given me the athority to handle all delinquent account in written word in her e-mail. I then ask for all letters that had been written to out delinquent HO's so that I could see which steps they had taken in the process of collection....I have neither received a call, e-mail or mail about this information. Today I picked up all the financials...first priorty on my list was checking the aging account. Our delinquency has gone up to 17 out of 77 HO's with out standing balance of $20,343.47 Written on the bottom of the list is a statement: "The accounts checked have been sent a late notice." "A LATE NOTICE" These accounts are for $3,508., $2,623., $2,804., (3)@over $1,500 and (3) @ over #1,000. the rest are from July 1st....Our dues are $409. semi annually. So as you can see they haven't even tried to collect if they are just now (after I ask for paper work) sending out late notices. My question to you is "should I send in another complaint to the DBPR"..we don't even have the money to pay our expenses and they are not even trying to collect....Most of these HO's should be in lien by now. And they are not even applying the late fee and interest correctly. Late fees and interest come off the top first so if not paid in full the remainder would be considered late dues and the HO would still be charged a late fee plus interest. Sorry this is so long.

ThomasS5
(Georgia)

Posts:9

08/21/2008 11:17 AM
thanks Dwight.. yes only the prez, sec and treasurer are ELECTED... they were having such an issue functioning, etc. they came to me and the BOD appointed me Vice President. There is nothing in our documents about confidential reports, etc. just that my job is to get committee structure up and running, be the liason between the rest of BOD and committees, etc. I do feel they are "making it up as they go" because I am the voacl one, the one the homeowners actually SEE doing something.. so I think they resent my questions, etc. I was told to "know my place" on the BOD...this is a TRIP !!!

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2157

08/21/2008 12:26 PM
Posted By ThomasS5 on 08/21/2008 11:17 AM thanks Dwight.. yes only the prez, sec and treasurer are ELECTED... they were having such an issue functioning, etc. they came to me and the BOD appointed me Vice President. There is nothing in our documents about confidential reports, etc. just that my job is to get committee structure up and running, be the liason between the rest of BOD and committees, etc. I do feel they are "making it up as they go" because I am the voacl one, the one the homeowners actually SEE doing something.. so I think they resent my questions, etc. I was told to "know my place" on the BOD...this is a TRIP !!! Thomas, Can you post the bylaws article which says appointed board members cannot vote? I find this quite unusual. However, if that's what the bylaws state, perhaps you do NOT have the same authority as the elected board members. I'd like to read the whole bylaw provision b/4 making a judgment call. Of course, it would only be my opinion, for what that's worth!

ThomasS5
(Georgia)

Posts:9

08/21/2008 12:40 PM
I have been through all the bylaws.. there is nothing there that states any job description, etc. It does state that there are only three elected officers..Now the mgmt company is saying b/c we are a non for profit.. and legally only elected can view documents b/c they are bound by the non-for profit laws, etc... that make sense? just shady....

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2157

08/21/2008 12:58 PM
Posted By ThomasS5 on 08/21/2008 12:40 PM I have been through all the bylaws.. there is nothing there that states any job description, etc. It does state that there are only three elected officers..Now the mgmt company is saying b/c we are a non for profit.. and legally only elected can view documents b/c they are bound by the non-for profit laws, etc... that make sense? just shady.... Thomas, Not doubting your word, but find it unusual there is no article addressing powers and duties of the BOD. Regarding the mgmt co's statement about nonprofit laws; perhaps the state has laws for nonprofit corps? If so, there may be a provision regarding "inspection of records" but I doubt it says anything about nonvoting members of the board. It probably only states what records may be viewed and/or copied by members of the assn. It appears to me you are not being regarded as an actual member of the board. Perhaps if you had been aware of what this appointment to the board really meant, you may have refused. You're a warm body good for performing tasks; a board member in name only. It sounds like you are a hard worker and I'm sure the board is thrilled to have you available to perform whatever task they might not want to perform, right?

ThomasS5
(Georgia)

Posts:9

08/21/2008 1:03 PM
yes ..exactly..I have been able to jump start five committees now with over 125 volunteers, chairs, etc...but god forbid I have an idea or question. It does address generic powers..as far as prez, sec, treas..says VP is back up and possess all powers of the prez in his absence...nothing about voting, etc. I do beleive it is b/c we are a non profit organization... Elections are next week..so nonetheless, I am most certainly running. The treasurer who I have had the problems with is also running but I am prepared for that. This was our first year HOA, and getting people to step up been very difficult...at least I know I have the right intentions at heart..more than what I can say about others. thanks mary

SidneyP
(Florida)

Posts:276

08/21/2008 1:08 PM
I do feel for you Thomas...my Board President treats me the same way. The difference is, I never gave up...I got just as much information when I wasn't on the Board then I do now....I finally got tired of being told to butt out...We are in such awful financial shape, I truly don't think we can out of it....If you read my post below, you can see what I found out...They, the Board/PM have not gone after our delinquent accounts, they just let them keep growing and growing....Keep after them, read your docs, find what you need and comfront them w/the information....If they don't want you to see the books, there is probably something there they don't want you to see....HOA Association's can have many problems but IMO, the priority concern is collecting the dues. With out the dues from all HO's the other problems start falling by the way side...If you can't pay for the services, there are no services....or expect an increase in dues and perhaps a "Special Assessment" I don't know about your docs but here in Flordia, if you ask for files (send a certified letter), they must give them to you within 10 days or must pay you $50. a day up to 10 days....Good luck but don't give up.

DwightT
(Idaho)

Posts:443

08/21/2008 1:10 PM
I think Mary may have hit it here - the Board (and probably the PM) do not consider Thomas to be a member of the Board. It looks like he was appointed for a specific purpose: form committees and act as liason. That purpose does not necessarily include greater access to the specifics of the collection report than a regular homeowner would have. Being told to "know your place" was probably not exactly the most considerate way to state it, but the treasurer may have been technically correct. On the other hand, if your task was to get the committees up and running, maybe the next committee should be a finance committee charged with reviewing all financial details for the HOA.

ThomasS5
(Georgia)

Posts:9

08/21/2008 1:15 PM
Thanks Dwight and Mary... Yes I have learned alot the past couple of days including we ( the Board) do not have a Code Of Ethics... so I have found examples and drafting one now as we speak for the next BOD...could have saved alot of headaches. As far as the financial committee...get this.. the treasurer was suppose to start that as well as getting a reserve fund done...neither have been touched. I just started the Membership / Welcome Comittee two weeks ago after she stated in March that she would be "glad to organize it"...it is going to be a an interesting annual meeting and elections next week !!!

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1676

08/21/2008 1:16 PM
Thomas, I know this might be a tedious thing to do, but could actually POST your Bylaws covering BOARD MEMBERS, their ELECTION, and also the section on OFFICERS. Generally the membership ELECTS BOARD MEMBERS, and the board is allowed to appoint to fill vacancies, and then the BOARD ELECTS the OFFICERS. I just feel like we're stumbling around here in the dark without know exactly what all the detail is regarding OFFICERS and BOARD MEMBERS in your By-Laws.

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