Inappropriate signage

We are a community of 148 single family homes – a nice community IMHO. There is a problem, I feel with signage. A neighbor, not the friendliest of types, has put two “NO TRESPASSING” signs on his home, one on the front door and the other on the front of the home (standard sized signs that you could buy at any home supply store (red and black).

They have been there for several months and when I complained to the MC a couple of months ago they told me that it was being worked on. I complained again last week but no response as of yet.

Our docs say:
“Sign Limitations. No sign of any kind, other than those installed by Declarant, the Association, or a Builder, may be displayed to public view on any Lot, except that one (1) sign with an area of not more than six (6) feet and of a design approved by Declarant may be displayed with the purpose of advertising the Lot for sale.”

Besides violating our covenants, my problem is the poor ‘curb appeal’ this presents for our community and the adverse affect this probably has on homes that are for sale in the community.

Should I back off and let the MC handle this at their pace or are there some actions I can/should take to expedite things?

Sorry - but when I see that particular sign in a neighborhood of homes, I think one of two things: the owner is a paranoid nut or there IS a tresspassing problem in the neighborhood.

In any case, either situation makes me uncomfortable.

I don’t know, Mary, if a violation has been issued.

I’m with Susan on this! If I was taken by a RE Agent to look at a nearby home, I’d feel somewhat uncomfortable with those signs and would probably cross that home from my list. That I am aware of, there is not a trespassing problem in out neighborhood.

And you hit the nail Dwight, this fellow is not very cooperative. There have been other community issues that he has been difficult to deal with (according to a board member who has shared information with me). And no, I’m not on the BoD.

Appreciate the comments!

Don't back down. Keep up the pressure. Personally im my townhome association I just drove up and removed them. Maybe not legal but it worked..they are gone.

Ellen,

Why does "no trespassing" denote danger to you? Garage doors left open do NOT lower property values -- just ask any real estate appraiser! Of course everyone is entitled to their views and if these things would prevent you from considering a particular neighborhood then so be it. Frankly, I've lived in non-HOA neighborhoods and don't recall open garage doors as being a big issue. I had an elderly neighbor who liked to sit out on the driveway and would keep his garage door open. I never thought that detracted from our neighborhood, which was, in fact, a very sought after neighborhood with very high property values. The point I was trying to get across is that oftentimes boards make rules in the guise of wanting to maintain or improve property values, when, in fact those rules have nothing whatsoever to do with proprety values.

Thx, George! As I said b/4, great minds think alike. LOL

First, if the PM said they are working on it, then you should only ask if it is still being worked on. It isn't like the PM has the ability to simply remove the sign. Nor can the PM have the owner arrested. It can take time to get a resolution to a covenant violation.

As for it lowering property values, it all depends. If you live in the slums and are changing the oil in your drive that probably raises property values. But if you are in a neighborhood of multi million dollar homes and are out changing the oil it could indeed lower values.

If there are armed people on the corner of every street, then a no trespassing sign would not affect values at all. But it might in other areas particularly if a person isn't sure of the neighborhood safety. Then again on an outhouse it might be quite the funny joke.

At any rate you presumably chose to live in a neighborhood that prohibits signs. You don't like the look of them and don't want to see them. You have a right to band together and live in such a place. And you can take action against transgressors. But you can not forcibly remove the sign without taking the proper steps first.

Donald,

I do think that you asked the right question about a sign on a door verses a sign on a lot. The covenant says NO signs unless, etc. basically a for sale sign.

No sign of any kind, other than those installed by Declarant, the Association, or a Builder, may be displayed to public view on any Lot, except that one (1) sign with an area of not more than six (6) feet and of a design approved by Declarant may be displayed with the purpose of advertising the Lot for sale.”

Thank you Mary; let me respond to your question. No, “welcome” signs specifically are not prohibited; instead, all signs are prohibited, as indicated in my opening post, except those installed by the Declarant, the Association, or a builder and a ‘sale’ sign of a design approved by the Declarant.

This essentially says that your suggested ‘welcome’ sign is not allowed and the ‘no trespassing’ sign(s) is/are also not allowed. I’d like to understand why you would suggest removing the NT sign on the house and let the one on the front door remain.

I believe that both NT signs must be removed before the issue can be closed by the MC.

Mary, that's why we ended up amending our sign restriction to allow for several other categories of signs besides the "for sale" of the lot only signs.

Our new restriction allows for:

Landscaping signs in landscaping beds (Nana's Garden, Honeybees Welcome here, that sort of thing)

Security company signs (Protected by ATD Security Svcs type signs)

Holiday signs specific to the current holiday (Happy Halloween, Merry Labor Day, whatever)

Welcome/decorative signs for the front door

Political signs (for the current election cycle with a time limitation)

I think that's all. I don't have the amendment in front of me.

Presenting this to the community in the form of an amendment, whereby they could vote up or down on each category, gives the community the opportunity to set their own acceptable standards.

. . . a notice. . . in the form of a sign.

How it's hung does not diminish it being a sign.

Hmm...I wonder. If the homeowner grows certain color flowers in the front flower bed that, when in bloom spell out "No Trespassing," if he he puts fertilizer on the grass only in certain areas, whereby the darker grass spells out "No Trespassing," I wonder if that will pass muster?

"A rose by any other name. . . can be a sign!"

have = haven't invited

Sure. Just move into a neighborhood that doesn't have a No Signs rule.

Not a problem. Just look for the neighborhoods with the junk cars in the front yards covered by 4-foot weeds.

Mary, only partially true.

A non-HOA neighborhood can start out that way and manage for quite a few years without the so-called "riff-raff" moving in. However, there are many many non-HOA neighborhoods in cities all over the country that are what are now called "transitional" or "marginal" neighborhoods, simply because at some point in the history of the neighborhood, those one or two neighbors moved in who started parking their semi-cab in the driveway, their live-in mother-in-law's car in the yard, and/or many of the other "un-neighborly" things that many HOAs cover in their CC&Rs that are not necessarily restricted in non-HOA neighborhoods.

It's that role of the dice, really, more than anything, that they don't get a neighbor like that move it that allows some non-HOA neighborhoods to be relatively problem free.

Also, again, signs posted on the house or fence or in a window that tout either "No Trespassing," or "Beware of Dog," or "ADT Security Services Active" are STILL disallowed signage if your covenant says NO SIGNS EXCEPT for the ONE sign allowing the lot to be advertised For Sale.

If you and your neighbors want those other "signs," then the right thing to do, in order to maintain the integrity of your documents, is to go ahead and make an AMENDMENT to the Signage restriction and/or create an R&R (if your docs allow you to do that in cases like this) and MAKE THEM LEGAL!

(PS: There are still plenty of non-HOA neighborhoods here in Kentucky. Just not many "newer" neighborhoods!)

I only wish that our HOA would actually enforce covenants/restrictions. Here's a perfect example of a sign that should have been taken down long ago..and yes both the HOA Prez, VP, and several board members drive by the sign twice daily...this to me says more negative about a neighbor and the homes in it than a no trespassing sign...

http://members.cox.net/btlfan64/P8140161.JPG

The sign does say that the home is for sale, so maybe it falls under the For Sale exclusion? Ok, not really serious on that.

It does make one wonder though. Does he really expect to sell it by telling everyone that the home sucks?