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SaraS1 (Virginia)
Posts: 7
Posted:
I do not know what to do anymore. I live in VA. The HOA i live in refuses to no end to enforce the bylaws. Several times under calm conditions a few of us have asked for compliance, please enforce the rules and carry out your duty as a Board. Things are going wild in here and apparently the attitutde is 'leave it be'. I invested money into my home, I pay my dues; I am paying my dues for services and even as the bylaws state the Board is working with knowledgable neglagence. Recently I approached the Board with the VA State Laws and Codes for HOA's. I have documented the violations the Board is making against the VA State Laws. The Board still does not do anything. I am so tired of writing my check for dues and services and never seeing a resolve. I have tried many times to work with the Board, to be positive, to not be negative. Several years later I am still beating a dead horse.
We approached the Board and have asked for honesty. The law is the law and no one is above the law. The Board still holds closed session meetings voting and making decisions without the neighborhoods knowledge. We only ask that we as homeowners have the opportunity to vote and make decisions with the Board for the better of our Community. The secrecy is becoming questionable at this point to say the least. With the current home market the way it is in this area I do not forsee us being able to sell in the near future and really just want to live and enjoy my community; so far I can't.
Any suggestions or ideas at this point would be appreciated. I am fed up and really wonder if this has become a legal battle; which is one thing I really do not want to do. I still have to live in here and do not want to feel like a "target".
GeraldT1 (<Not Specified>)
Posts: 519
Posted:
Sara S1,

What a dog an pony show!! Consistent violations of the rules and regulations, or architectural review/modification procedures costs everyone and sets dangerous precedents if not enforced. You are so on target with the impact violations may have the real estate market. A well run and consistent HOA is an asset that can increase the resale value for the entire community.

If a BOD is not going to honor your requests, as long as they are reasonable and justified within the law or your by-laws, than there is little you can do. As I see it, your options are to send a certified letter outlining your requests (perhaps with a Cc to your attorney), get an attorney to pressure compliance and write a letter on his/her letterhead, sue for their compliance to your requests, or just give up.

Have you read your by-laws thoroughly, sounds like you know what Virginia laws require. However, I did an internet search and found the following link:
http://communitiesonline.org/laws/

If you scroll down to Virginia, you can click on the link "Property Owner's Association Act". Within the Act I read the following:

E. Meetings of the association shall be held in accordance with the provisions of the bylaws at least once each year after the formation of the association....

Further into the Act is ยง 55-510.1. Meetings of the board of directors.

A. All meetings of the board of directors, including any subcommittee or other committee thereof, shall be open to all members of record. The board of directors shall not use work sessions or other informal gatherings of the board of directors to circumvent the open meeting requirements of this section. Minutes of the meetings of the board of directors shall be recorded and shall be available as provided in subsection B of ยง 55-510.

Words of advice, hope you don't mind.

1) Stop asking because it seems you've been polite enough. Put your requests (include requesting copies of minutes) in writing again via certified mail return receipt requested, and regular US post.

2) Keep paying your maintenance.

3) Suing the Board for money can be pointless, you're only suing yourself. Suing the Board in general is not wise because if you loose, you'll probably have to pay their court fees.

Best of success!!
GeraldT1
NNJ

JosephW (Michigan)
Posts: 882
Posted:
You're at the opposite end of the spectrum from the normal "Condo Commando" problem of boards doing too much. Some associations have settled into a routine they find comfortable, even if they are not fulfilling their obligations or duties. Upsetting the apple cart probably won't win you any friends, but you have a right to expect them to do what they were elected to do, and what they are required to do. Getting them to do this short of a lawsuit can be tough. Start with the Common Interest Community Association Liaison for Virginia and the information on their site. She doesn't have any enforcement power, but she can confirm that your issues with the board are correct, and by copying her responses to the board, they may feel like the Commonwealth is now checking up on them. She may also have some local resources to help. Here is the web address: http://www.state.va.us/dpor/cic_lias.htm There are also a lot of good resources on that page, as well as additional Virginia resources at: http://www.communityassociations.net/states/virginia/virginia_main.html
In the meantime, see if any others feel like you do, and build a goup that would be more noticeable to the board, or conceivably, win the next election.
Take a look at some of the blogs that are trying to constructively make changes to their associations: http://www.communityassociations.net/blog_directory_individual.html
Blogs are easy to do and usually free.
and here's a good article by Rich Thompson, of Regenesis.net on your problem: http://realtytimes.com/rtcpages/20040421_againstgrain.htm

I hope some of this helps

Joseph West
Official HOATalk.com Sponsor
Community Associations Network, LLC
www.CommunityAssociations.net

*See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal
SaraS1 (Virginia)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Thank you GeraldT1 for the words. Those are the same laws I and several others took to our Board. At the last monthly meeting they said they were still going to meet however they liked. I believe I am reading the laws the right way. Several of us have banded together to voice our concern, in this community it seems the longer you have lived here the more willing they are to let the rules slide. I believe my next home will be outside of an HOA, this is too tiring to keep up with. But thank you again for your advice, I do not mind in the least
SaraS1 (Virginia)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Thank you also JoesphW. I will look into your websites as well tomorrow when my brain is refreshed! I feel the same way and do not have the energy to go into a lawsuit. I do not think it is the smartest way to go since my family still has to live here for the time being. I have a pretty good sized group of folks that want to see some changes, the wear and tear is noticable on all of us now. And since we arent a bunch of millionaires the thought process is becoming more and more that we can only do so much. Again, thank you for the websites and it all helps!
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Sara, since you have a good sized group who want changes you can work to replace Board members who are not doing their job. I have made several posts on the procedures to use to replace Board members which you can review. Check these and conform with your By-laws to replace them.
NikkiT (Texas)
Posts: 30
Posted:
Dear SaraS1;
Boy do I feel for you. Your message read like you live here (in Texas) in ELPOA. I have fought each and every Board since we became our own Association to no avail to keep us on a reasonably legal status. Oh well! I have all but given up and any interest in the Association activities is only a slim thread now. My "bucking the powers that be" have resulted in suggestive threats to property and two summers ago, the Board made the decision to allow another new property owner to cover over the natural spring which fed the "little lake" with several cubit yards of clay to build a "jungle jim." The play yard that was on this side of the lake, I guess too far for their children to go. When I have confronted the Board about this it is a shrug and "I don't know" even though my property values have dropped because of the Board's actions.

Moving is not an option, my land and home is paid for and at my age this will be the last home I live in.

I feel for you. Didn't know others were in the same situation: being between a rock and a hard place. The attitude of most of the people here is just "be quite and leave them alone - - just pay your dues."

NikkiT45
CathyH1 (Indiana)
Posts: 20
Posted:
The frustrations of trying to keep a HOA and its BOD in line with its by-laws certainly can be found all across the country! In our association, it is compounded with our inability to remove the Board....that is not because our by-laws do not provide for a method to remove Board Members...it is not because we cannot get enough homeowners involved who will sign a petition, attend a Special Meeting to remove the Board Members and it is not because the vote taken did not result in a removal of the Board Members, it is because once the members of the Board were removed at the Special Meeting held to remove and elect new BOD, the former BOD filed a lawsuit challenging that removal and stating the meeting was not conducted per the by-laws...keep in mind this same group who filed this suit were also the same ones who (per by-laws) conducted the meeting...This all happended in 8/05 and the trial (5 days!!!) is not set until 11/06....PLUS we should have had (per the by-laws) our annual meeting and election and approval of the budget in April of this year, but to date not a word about when any of that will take place...we would have to sue to have that happen and with a trial already in the works (and believe me the actual pending litigation is MUCH more complicated than I could ever explain on this site), why waste the time and money???

That is why it is CRUCIAL that the laws in our states be changed to protect homeowners from either the mismanangement or (in my case) outright abuse some BODs inflict on their HOA. That will only happen though with lots of effort and cooperation amongst all citizens of each state. EDUCATION is key.
CathyH1 (Indiana)
Posts: 20
Posted:
The frustrations of trying to keep a HOA and its BOD in line with its by-laws certainly can be found all across the country! In our association, it is compounded with our inability to remove the Board....that is not because our by-laws do not provide for a method to remove Board Members...it is not because we cannot get enough homeowners involved who will sign a petition, attend a Special Meeting to remove the Board Members and it is not because the vote taken did not result in a removal of the Board Members, it is because once the members of the Board were removed at the Special Meeting held to remove and elect new BOD, the former BOD filed a lawsuit challenging that removal and stating the meeting was not conducted per the by-laws...keep in mind this same group who filed this suit were also the same ones who (per by-laws) conducted the meeting...This all happended in 8/05 and the trial (5 days!!!) is not set until 11/06....PLUS we should have had (per the by-laws) our annual meeting and election and approval of the budget in April of this year, but to date not a word about when any of that will take place...we would have to sue to have that happen and with a trial already in the works (and believe me the actual pending litigation is MUCH more complicated than I could ever explain on this site), why waste the time and money???

That is why it is CRUCIAL that the laws in our states be changed to protect homeowners from either the mismanangement or (in my case) outright abuse some BODs inflict on their HOA. That will only happen though with lots of effort and cooperation amongst all citizens of each state. EDUCATION is key.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Wow Cathy, that a new one for me! Those Board members either have tremendous egos or they have something serious to hide. I have never heard of Board members not being replaced when all actions are done according to the rules. Who is suing whom? Is the deposed board members are suing the association? I would not allow them to remain in office unless they have secured an injunction from a judge to remain in office until the case is heard.
CathyH1 (Indiana)
Posts: 20
Posted:
I thought that little tidbit (and I do mean tidbit) would get your attention..there is pretty much not one story I have read so far on this or any other website that comes close to our story save for those where people have lost their homes or there is violence involved..that is why I am so determined to get legislation in IN...

To answer your question, deep breathe (and this is still not even close to the entire story)...our association is going on 30 plus years and like many older condos the reserves are 0.00 and the mainence has not been done properly for years. There was a 10K per unit Special Assessment passed in 3/05 ( By-Laws require members approval of any Special Assessment over 105 of the monthly assessment amt). In 4/05 the annual elections were held and two new Board members were elected...both new Board members had some "fresh" ideas (like allowing members access to records as prescribed in the by-laws and State Code)....within 3 weeks the holdover Board Members declared there was an "election irregularity" and threw one of the new Board Members off the Board....a petition to remove the Board was submitted calling for a Special Meeting to remove all members of the Board, replace those who were removed and to vote on whether or not to overturn the Special Assessment (there were questions on the part of several members as to whether or not that election was on the "up and up" after the annual meeting results were overturned by the Board and there were some members who felt they were coerced into voting to approve the Special Assessment when in fact they only voted for the assessment because they were afraid not to) The Board was in the process of signing multimillion dollar contracts and obtain financing to carry our the maintence needs of the community ( Not one of us opposes any Special Assessment to be clear)...in order to protect the association, our atty ( I am a party to the litigation I mentioned in my earlier comments), contacted the HOA atty and asked that the Board consider not pursuing contracts or financing until the Special Meeting was held so that in case the Special Assessment was overturned, there were no liabilites out there that could present a problem...the Board refused to delay.

A Motion for a Temporary Injunction was filed, the Board two weeks later signed an Agreed Order to impose the temporary injunction (this injunction was only in place until the Special Meeting) and we all begin preparing for the Special Meeting to remove Board members etx.

As I stated, in our by-laws the Board is charged with conducting the Meeting which they have the HOA atty run...they prepare the ballots so they are NOT in compliance with the by-laws ( our atty reviews these ballots before the meeting and objects...we had brought properly prepared ballots to the meeting anticipating there would be a problem), the Board refuses to use any ballots but what they prepared..they are removed, new members are voted in the Special Assessment was overturned (inspite of the overturn - they levied the assessment in 5/06 - they must have the authority of the members of the association to levy any assessment over 10% of the monthly assessment...just another issue in this mess)...about 2 weeks later the removed Board sues the newly elected Board to remain in office and it just gets more crazy from there...and yes, they do have a temporary order to stay in office as there is case law in Indiana that was in their favor. The final trial was to have been in March 2006 but of course the removed Board asked the Court to reset so it was moved to November 2006.

I am a paralegal and have never ever seen anything like this in my life! And because of good ole due process, we are stuck with this long protracted legal process to resolve something that at least to me seems pretty obvious....We have two great attys now representing us (there have been soooo many motions and counterclaims and charges againgst us - the members .... filed by these Board members - not to mention the horrible written communications they have sent to the community ...never thought I would see my name slandered in that way) Both of our attys are now working on contigency basis as we are pursuing bad faith actions for starters..we have spent to date (up to the contingency agreement over $36,000.00 to litigate this and protect our rights as homeowners...

Yes, again, we need HOA reform...it won't help me and my neighbors but no one should ever go through what we are experiencing. I am in contact with anther association in IN that is experiencing the same type of Board behavior...that Board is in the process of Appealing the State Court ruling regarding release of list of members so notice can be sent for Special Meeting to Remove the Board....Board was ordered to provide the list and has not done so and refuses to notice the meeting....crazy stuff!
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Cathy, one other approach might be to contact the HOA's insurance agent. Perhaps the old Board members will not be covered by insurance. If so, and the agent so advises them, they may reconsider based on their potential financial liablility. Alos, does you state require the losing party to pay legal costs of both parties?
CathyH1 (Indiana)
Posts: 20
Posted:
We are already working on the insurance carrier, we plan to at least put the carrier on notice that there could be a claim under the E & O portion of the policy...and yes, in IN the losing party is to pay legal costs of both parties. The key will be whether the losing party is the Association or the BOD as individuals. We have named the BOD as individuals due to the bad faith and other charges being alleged in our now expanded (sigh) counter-claim.

What a mess...I see over and over again how one should NOT sue their HOA as you are in effect suing yourself but the reality is that some times you have no recourse. It is and should always be the last means to resolve a conflict...I just wish it were not the only means when something as serious as what is happening here takes place.
NikkiT (Texas)
Posts: 30
Posted:
Wow, And I thought we had it bad here. With 16 years being away from the developer, the "powers that be" have circulated among the same 14 people. But what I have here is nothing to compare with your problems - - maybe because I have not really bucked the clique to force them to act properly.

I agree, it should not be necessary to go to such lengths to protect your property and good name/reputation.

Nikki T.
CathyH1 (Indiana)
Posts: 20
Posted:
All I can say further is that it is sooo important to not just sit back and stay quiet...one must be involved (and there are lots of different levels of involvment - from keeping yourself informed and educated, to attending BOD meetings and association meetings, to running for the BOD or being on various committees in your association.

An active HOA membership is the best deterent to problems surfacing or becoming out of control.
CarolynK (Alabama)
Posts: 15
Posted:
sounds like u are having the same problem we are. in live in dothan al. and we have a board that will pick and choose whom they want to make comply with the bylaws. the board has there closed meetings and make decision on how to spend our monies. we even went so far as to hire an attorney and he was never able to get a responce for the lawyer that we have for the association. we are trying to get the books and records open so we can see how the monies are spent,but that hasn't happened yet. our bylaws says that we are entitled during reasonable business hours. but the board tells us that want happen. good luck

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