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Subject: Florida HOA shutting of water service?

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MissyS
(Florida)

Posts:48

08/10/2008 9:33 AM
We are a Florida HOA and our assessment includes water service. We want to amend our documents to include water termination due to unpaid assessments. I did a search and found great info, but there were no posting from Florida. I’m trying to find out if there are any Florida Associations who shut off the water to units when the owner is delinquent. I called the Health Department and explained the water service was part of our assessments and asked if we could legally shut off the owner's water? I was told by the Health Department...If it's in your documents and the owner calls to complain, they'll be told the Health Department will not force the Association to turn the water back on and they would also tell the owner they must vacant the property.” When we asked our attorney about turning off the water he advised against it. I realize he's trying to protect our Association from possible law suits. We did ask him before I called the Health Department. After talking to the Health Department I'm hoping we can amend our documents to clearly state the Association has the authority to shut off the water. As always this will go thru our attorney, if he tells us this is not legal then we certainly would not pursue it any further. Many of you might be asking yourself why we would even consider such a drastic measure, and the answer is we are desperate. Past boards did not aggressively pursue delinquent owners and our association's past due assessments are over $50,000, that's equivalent to one years worth of water bills. Since getting on the board this year I've had our attorney sending demand letters, filing liens, but it's a slow process. Maybe this is only wishful thinking, but maybe if this can be done owners will see that their assessments are just as important as paying their car, mortgage, electric, and cable bills. I know of one owner who owes several thousand dollar and he bought a big screen TV. I’m sure he put it on credit. Another owner bought a new car. I don’t think most of these owners realize that they can end up loosing their homes, because several have not paid in years. Yes I said years. Maybe having their water shut off will be the wake up call that many of our owners need. Sorry to be so long winded and thanks for letting me vent.

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2498

08/10/2008 9:39 AM
Missy, IMO, before the board embarks on trying to pass an amendment to the CCRs allowing this action, I think they should get their act together and address the delinquency problem. They need to adopt a viable collection policy, notify the members of the new policy and also that it will be enforced to the letter. Explain the assn's right to foreclose and, perhaps, also state that as a last resort they will set about to have the docs changed to allow water to be shut off to the units that are delinquent. I agree, this does sound like quite a drastic option, but I do know that many condo assn in AZ do the same thing. It's hot here, too, just like in FL, which makes this policy seem even more drastic.

SusanW1
(Michigan)

Posts:2316

08/10/2008 10:40 AM
We are in a subdivsion and supply the water to over 250 homes. We no longer call it a "water bill" - but rather membership dues since there are other amenities that are included with the water: roads, common areas, a beach and community center and the water use can't be sorted out from all that. The membership fee is $850 per year. There are several payment plan options, but some people - including old board members!! - take it all the way to the shut-off level before paying. We now have 6 homes in foreclosure in our sub. We send letters, paste notices on the doors, paint the water turn-off connection with florescent paint (in the yard or driveway - this usually gets some action) and then finally, shut off the water. One thing, we ALWAYS get the fee since the water will not be turned off until the dues and late fees are paid. The bylaws state that the water will be turned off for non payment of membership dues. The Board just passed a rule that said the over-due homeowners can't rent the community center. Have an outside company do the actual shut-off. Foolishly (in my opinion) some of our board members are present when the water tap gets dug up and shut off. They have been threatened and even laughed at. The board should not be that close to the actual shut-off process.

MissyS
(Florida)

Posts:48

08/10/2008 11:14 AM
You are absolutely right and we have done just that....we now have in place a strict collection policy. Owners past due more than 30 days are sent a demand letter, if the owner does not respond in 45 days a “Claim of Lien” is sent, if the owner still does not respond an “Intent to Foreclosure is filed 45 days after the lien and final step is the foreclosure. We have notified all owners of the collection policy and that it comes straight from the Florida Statutes. We have tried to inform owners that this is serious and they could loose their homes. It’s not easy to amend documents, and it may not pass or for that matter is legal. As I stated in my original post, we are desperate. As frustrated and upset as I am with these owners, the prospect that they can loose their homes has caused me many a sleepless nights. I’d rather turn off their water to get them to pay than foreclose.

BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:1742

08/10/2008 12:11 PM
Missy: My advice, either follow the advice or your attorney or shop for one that will agree with you. IF you are ever in a lawsuit it won't look good that you didn't follow the advice or your attorney.

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2948

08/10/2008 12:22 PM
MIssy, Make sure that you have a strong legal opinion before you shut off the water. Even public utilities get in big trouble for shutting off the essentials of life. Many examples are when electricity or gas get shut off, the courts deem that illegal and a threat to health and safety. I would not have a Board member do the shutting off either. The water Utility will come out probably for a charge, which the Board certainly does not want to have to pay. So this is not something that you should go at without having all of your ducks in a row.

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1748

08/10/2008 12:23 PM
why not just institute a repair or upgrade program to your water system. I mean, it can be inconvenient that you have to shut off water service to houses at the most inopportune times (right at morning showering, dinner preparation, etc.), but hey, we apologize and as soon as we get this problem fixed, i am sure your water will be back on. a couple times of that, with the appropriate reasons (we WOULD use a higher quality valve here, but with so many people not paying their water bills, we can't afford to do anything but these cheap ones), the message will get across.

CarolF
(Florida)

Posts:34

08/10/2008 1:06 PM
Missy - are you a HOA or a Condo Association? You mention the term "unit". If you are a HOA, wouldn't you have to go onto the owner's lot, without permission.

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1748

08/10/2008 4:35 PM
Posted By CarolF on 08/10/2008 1:06 PM Missy - are you a HOA or a Condo Association? You mention the term "unit". If you are a HOA, wouldn't you have to go onto the owner's lot, without permission. If the HOA owns the water lines, i bet there is already an easement granted somewhere for entry onto the property, at least to the meter.

KirkW1
(Texas)

Posts:1190

08/10/2008 8:08 PM
I would ask the attorney to explain the legal reasons for not doing so. Sometimes attorneys do not separate their opinions on what one should do from what one can legally do. Now for my opinion (whatever it is worth): My first thought was that water use should be billed separately and shut off for not paying and not shut off for not failure to pay other dues. But as I think about it, shutting off the water just seems so much better then foreclosure. All the same, I while I would require something to turn the water back on, in the case of people who owe very large amounts I would allow for a payment plan. They would have to make progress every month though. I just don't know that I would hold water off until someone came up with more then a month's pay. And if the HOA allowed people to fall that far behind then it should share some of the blame in having very large amounts owed. Just keep a human ear open and work with people is all I have to say. But if that doesn't get their attention certainly file the lien and foreclosure at some point.

MissyS
(Florida)

Posts:48

08/11/2008 4:51 AM
BrianB, the association years ago checked into having the city take over, it was very expensive. Our units are not individually metered, plus something to do with changing the water lines. The cost years ago was over $100,000. I'd hate to think what it would cost now. Our members would have a difficult time if not impossible to pay the special assessment. We just can't ask this of our members. Thanks for the post....that would be the best solution, if it wasn't for the cost.

MissyS
(Florida)

Posts:48

08/11/2008 4:59 AM
CarolF, we are townhouses and own the lots. I know in our docs there is a reference giving authority to enter the units. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I wonder since the association provides the service that would automatically give us permission. I need to find out. Thanks again for the post.

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2498

08/11/2008 1:53 PM
Posted By MissyS on 08/11/2008 4:59 AM CarolF, we are townhouses and own the lots. I know in our docs there is a reference giving authority to enter the units. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I wonder since the association provides the service that would automatically give us permission. I need to find out. Thanks again for the post. I believe if the assn is paying the water bill, they have a right to turn off the supply. Several years ago there was a bill in the AZ leg. to make this illegal, but there was so much opposition from condo communities that the bill died. Someone asked if yours is a condo or planned community. There is no way the board could turn off the water to homes in a planned community. Each member pays his own water bill! That would really be stretching the authority of the HOA. The HOA only has authority over water usage IF they are providing that service.

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1466

08/11/2008 9:18 PM
I would love to be able to do that but Ohio law only allows COA's to do that to commercial units which IMO is unfair because the Water Department can shut it off for non-payment.

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1748

08/12/2008 6:32 AM
Posted By MissyS on 08/11/2008 4:51 AM BrianB, the association years ago checked into having the city take over, it was very expensive. Our units are not individually metered, plus something to do with changing the water lines. The cost years ago was over $100,000. I'd hate to think what it would cost now. Our members would have a difficult time if not impossible to pay the special assessment. We just can't ask this of our members. Thanks for the post....that would be the best solution, if it wasn't for the cost. weird, i am re reading this thread to see where I even remotely suggested having the city take over...

MissyS
(Florida)

Posts:48

08/12/2008 9:34 AM
BrianB, I'm so sorry. I've heard of reading between the lines, but I wasn't even reading the same book. How in the world I misconstrued your post can only be explained by one of my "senior moments" lol.

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