MarianneG
(Indiana)
Posts:51
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| 08/09/2008 7:20 PM |
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Just wondering whether anyone could give some advice about the best method of eliminating algae from a pond.
A homeowner here has asked our BOD to look into a problem with algae on a pond behind his home. That pond is one of 3 in our community. The other 2 ponds feed into it. The HOA pays for regular applications of a chemical for our ponds, but the chemicals do not seem to help the pond located behind the homeowner's home.
We have investigated the possibility of installing a pump and fountain or installing an underwater aeration system. Both systems are expensive and both would require our running electricity to the vicinity of the pond. We've heard conflicting remarks about which system would be most likely to fix the problem.
I'd appreciate hearing of any of your experiences with fountains and/or aeration systems.
Thanks, Marianne |
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MicheleD
(Kentucky)
Posts:1866
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| 08/09/2008 9:08 PM |
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It really depends on the algae.
and simply moving the water around won't really affect algae, it's a sunshine thing, not an aeration thing.
One thing that helps not only our retention basin but the 2 ponds in my yard is putting in some blue pond dye.
Once you get the algae somewhat reduced with the chemicals, then add some of the dye.
It's like putting a pair of sunglasses on the pond. It blocks a good deal of the sun's rays that promote algae growth.
Not only do many pond owners use it, so do water garden centers and pond stores.
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GeorgerwilliamsW
(Indiana)
Posts:768
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| 08/10/2008 5:26 AM |
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Marianne,
I have lived on such a pond for 15 years, and before that had to deal with the problem in a farm pond on my country estate.
I am presuming you are speaking of a detention or retention pond, rather than a garden/decorative pond.
Fact of life: You can't eliminate algae from the pond. You gotta live with it. That is unless you want to kill off everything in the pond ever few weeks, and make your ponds chemical cesspools. (Or spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to maintain them like swimming pools.)
Treating our system of linked detention ponds several times each year with both copper sulfate (turns the water blue) and a mixture of other chemicals works for us. It is also less damaging to the environment,
The problem is that algae sits and grows on the bottom of the pond, and when disturbed or when it grows so much that it can't stay attached to the bottom, it will float to the surface in numerous big clumps.
And how the pond maintenance company treats the pond makes a big difference. The first contractor we used simply sprayed the treatment into the pond surface while walking around the bank. Our current contractor actually launches a small skiff and sprays the chemicals over the entire pond surface.
Even though ponds are connected, the treatment does not seem to flow from one to the other. All ponds in the drainage/retention system have to be treated individually.
This has been a relatively good year--just two treatments so far. Last year there were five. August seems to be the worst month. But this year, with all the rain, the ponds have been relatively algae free.
And, yes, we have two fountains. They really don't do the job. They help, but they are not the solution. And an areator only seems to stimulate the algae on the bottom to break free and float to the surface.
Lots of pond maintenance companies in Hoosierland.
For more information, contact the Purdue County Extension office in your county. They have tons of printed materials on retention/detention pond construction and maintenance.
Check out http://www.asapaquatics.com/index.php
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SusanW1
(Michigan)
Posts:2316
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| 08/10/2008 5:39 AM |
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Run-off from lawn fertilizers is a great source for the growth of algae. You have to try to investigate the condition of your run-off.
Some natural cycle is normal, but when it gets real bad, it MAY be because there's an overabundance of phosphorus in the run-off water entering the pond.
As George said, it depends on the type. You need to get an analysis (or introduce some natural preditors, like the zebra mussel!)
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GeorgerwilliamsW
(Indiana)
Posts:768
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GeorgerwilliamsW
(Indiana)
Posts:768
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GeorgerwilliamsW
(Indiana)
Posts:768
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SusanW1
(Michigan)
Posts:2316
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| 08/10/2008 6:29 AM |
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Check out the homeowner's use of lawn fertilizers.
He may be creating this mess himself.
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BrianB
(California)
Posts:1748
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| 08/10/2008 7:25 AM |
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To eliminate algae in any body of water:
Copper Sulfate, Cupric Acid.
Nitric Acid, Sulfuric Acid, Perchloric Acid.
Sodium Hypochlorite, Hydrochloric Acid, Carbon disulfide.
Benzene will normally work too, as will a ton of other organic compounds (triethanolamine, acrolein, dichloromethane, trichloromethane, just to name a couple) if you don't mind the cancer risk.
Ozone treatment, electrostatic hydrolysis, and chemical filtration also work if money is no object.
One thing mankind is good at is inventing ways to kill other living things. There's probably 100,000 chemicals you can add to the water to kill the algae, thanks to the miracle of modern science.
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GeorgerwilliamsW
(Indiana)
Posts:768
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| 08/10/2008 7:47 AM |
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Brian, That is why I think we simply gotta live with it and do the least amount of damage we reasonably can. Your thinkin' cap is screwed on just right on this issue.
Let's not destroy the world around us because we don't like pond scum. |
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:2948
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| 08/10/2008 10:38 AM |
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Marianne,
The answer is simple. You said that the HOA pays for regular applications of chemicals. The company that is treating the pond is failing to do their job. That's why they are hired--to maintain the ponds. Get them out there and show them the mess and require it to be resolved. |
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GeorgerwilliamsW
(Indiana)
Posts:768
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| 08/10/2008 11:16 AM |
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Donna,
How do you conclude that the company that is treating the pond is "failing to do their job"? There is absolutely no information posted to justify that assertion.
I think you may want to read the other posts here. Despite proper application of algicides, blooms are still likely. Retention/detention ponds are not swimming pools.
You might find it helpful to read carefully the data sheets that were posted.
Let me quote myself:
"Fact of life: You can't eliminate algae from the pond. You gotta live with it. That is unless you want to kill off everything in the pond ever few weeks, and make your ponds chemical cesspools. (Or spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to maintain them like swimming pools.)" |
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:2948
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| 08/10/2008 11:29 AM |
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Comemon George,
The HOA is paying for the ponds to be maintained. My HOA in Florida has 14 ponds. It is hot down there, there is chemical runoff from the 565 homes and miles of streets and the sun never ceases to grow algae. Do we have algae? No way, the company that treats these ponds has them clear enough to see the bottoms. And the $43,000 annual fees would have their heads in a bag if we had bad pond water. If it were not the companys job to maintain them with chemicals, then I would cut them slack in this case but they are paying for pond maintenance.
I speak from Board experience and as a Board member who had the responsibility to monitor all of our vendors, I concluded that. What type of information would you like to see that says there is failure from the maintenance company in the pond care? |
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JohnK3
(Pennsylvania)
Posts:565
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| 08/10/2008 11:50 AM |
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Posted By DonnaS on 08/10/2008 11:29 AM
Comemon George,
The HOA is paying for the ponds to be maintained. My HOA in Florida has 14 ponds. It is hot down there, there is chemical runoff from the 565 homes and miles of streets and the sun never ceases to grow algae. Do we have algae? No way, the company that treats these ponds has them clear enough to see the bottoms. And the $43,000 annual fees would have their heads in a bag if we had bad pond water. If it were not the companys job to maintain them with chemicals, then I would cut them slack in this case but they are paying for pond maintenance.
I speak from Board experience and as a Board member who had the responsibility to monitor all of our vendors, I concluded that. What type of information would you like to see that says there is failure from the maintenance company in the pond care?
Copy you 5x5, Donna. Vendors are paid to perform. If our landscaping outfit doesn't cut the grass as agreed to, they aren't earning their fees. Uncut grass is all I need to know.
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:2948
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| 08/10/2008 11:59 AM |
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John,
I was very involved with the pond contract in Fl. These ponds (retention holes) are all interconnected and are monitored by S. Fl Water Management District. Because when it rains heavy, they flow thru big culverts and end up being treated so there is County cost involved.
They MUST have a 10 foot Littoral (native grasses and plants) around them to replace all of the lost habitat for the water birds. Because of the eco system, these ponds must not kill off all of the creatures that we have had to entice with the Littorals. Therefore ponds can and must be healthy. It took us 3 vendors in 4 years to find the right one, so I blamed the O.Ps vendor and as you backed this up, all vendors are responsible to carry out the services that they are paid to perform. Otherwise--THEY ARE HISTORY. |
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GeorgerwilliamsW
(Indiana)
Posts:768
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| 08/10/2008 2:20 PM |
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Florida ain't Indiana. We have an entirely different soil structure, weather patterns and much different flora and fauna. What may work in Florida, may not work north of the Ohio and vice versa. People need to understand that. There is no justification whatsoever to fault the contractor when there is no evidence of improper work.
You don't fault the lawn mowing contractor when the grass grows back. Why then should the pond treatment company be faulted when algae returns. It is nonsensical.
There was nothing in the original post that suggested the contractor was not doing a proper job. Indeed, as I posted, ponds need to be treated multiple times each year.
The original posting inquired about a single pond that does not seem to be responding to treatment.
Let me quote from the documentation specific to detention/retention ponds in Indiana (not Florida).
Blue-Green algae is often the biggest culprit when it comes to "pond scum" problems. Recently, it has been reclassified in the Monera Kingdom which consists of bacteria instead of being classified with other types of algae because the blue-green algae relates more closely to bacteria than other forms of algae. Within the blue-green algae grouping, there can be several varieties that can have many different colors such as red, brown, or yellow.
Blue-green algae are nitrogen-fixing organisms and only need nitrogen and carbon dioxide to live, both very prevalent in most ponds. When there is a blue-green algae bloom, it forms dense masses on the surface of the pond and can cover the entire body of water.
Blue-Green Algae and Chemical Resistance
Cyanobacteria [blue-green algae] are extremely resistant to chemical control methods that work perfectly on the green algas. To add to the frustration, no one is exactly sure why they are so impervious to treatment. . . The mystery is why, even when applied at maximum rates, algicides are so ineffective.
Unfortunately, there is no guaranteed method to manage chemical resistant blue-green algas. At a client's request, specialized treatments can be performed, however, these are not included in the contract. Results still cannot be guaranteed and may run heightened risks of fish kills.
I stand by what I have posted.
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MarianneG
(Indiana)
Posts:51
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| 08/10/2008 3:00 PM |
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Never did I expect to generate such terrific replies to my question when I submitted it. Thanks to all for your ideas and comments.
George, I really appreciate the pdf files you linked and your experiences with ponds here in Indiana. I will share this information with my fellow board members. (In fact, I will send them a link to this subject in this forum.)
Michelle, your comments about the water colorant made good sense to me. I think that is the copper sulfate that George, Brian, and maybe some others suggested.
Donna, (and John) FYI -- Our contract with the pond maintenance company is up soon. We've been watching this situation and in a problem-solving mode throughout the summer (remember this is our first year on the BOD), have spoken with our pond mtnce co, and we have recently consulted with two other companies in order to gather more information and develop options. We are in the fact-gathering stage at this time. The posts here have yielded some very helpful information.
Marianne
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SusanW1
(Michigan)
Posts:2316
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| 08/10/2008 3:08 PM |
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There are so many factors here at work - the pond depth, size, the weather, activity of surrounding homes, rate of retention flow, the type of algae.
Let the company make its case and decide from there.
Don't throw the entire company out with the pond water.
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:2948
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| 08/10/2008 3:12 PM |
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George,
I agree that there are differences in the physical DNA of the Algae in Indiana and Florida climates breed different types of algae, bacterias and tides. (ever heard of Red Tide?)
What you quoted is from some pond treatment Co. and is a basic disclaimer with basic pond scum info. So I would not go to the bank with that one. It is basically covering their butts.
Marianne, I am glad to see that your BOD is considering looking into other companies because there are ways to deal with this. It might take some extra time or treatments but for the health of the pond, it has to be addressed. Mosquitos as I remember them, grow pretty big up in your neck of the woods. I'm from Wisconsin so I know. |
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GeorgerwilliamsW
(Indiana)
Posts:768
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| 08/10/2008 3:19 PM |
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Posted By SusanW1 on 08/10/2008 3:08 PM
There are so many factors here at work - the pond depth, size, the weather, activity of surrounding homes, rate of retention flow, the type of algae.
Let the company make its case and decide from there.
Don't throw the entire company out with the pond water.
Thank you Susan. You have spoken better than I. It perfectly encapsulates the issue here.
I stand by what I post.
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JohnK3
(Pennsylvania)
Posts:565
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| 08/11/2008 10:53 AM |
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"You don't fault the lawn mowing contractor when the grass grows back. Why then should the pond treatment company be faulted when algae returns. It is nonsensical.
There was nothing in the original post that suggested the contractor was not doing a proper job."
The original post states that the chemicals (hence, vendor/contractor) are not doing the job.
Marianne,
Fountains are pretty, and pretty expensive. We have a nice one, but it doesn't do anything about algae except keep it out of a 20 foot circle in the center of the pond. |
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GeorgerwilliamsW
(Indiana)
Posts:768
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| 08/11/2008 10:58 AM |
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You are correct on all counts, John. Pretty, expensive, and not very effective in algae control in our pond system.
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