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Subject: New VA POA act change regarding Electronic Version of Resale packet

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JohnD14
(New York)

Posts:4

08/07/2008 10:27 AM
On July 1, 2008, a new change in the VA POA act allows for the HOA or PM to provide the seller with an electronic version of the resale package, unless the seller appears in person at the PM's office and request a hard copy. My question is this... Has anyone in VA or other states gone digital with the HOA Docs/Resale Package? I'm very curious if anyone else has gone digital and started issuing electronic version of the docs. Many questions come to mind that probably only PM's can answer,... IE - 1. Is it very expensive to have this professionally scanned? 2. Can any part of it be OCR'd instead of scanned? 3. Do the components of the package change too often so that this would just be too difficult to modify or keep updated? 4. Is more trouble than it's worth? 5. Is there a cost savings? 6. The law says that you cannot charge more for the electronic version. Can you or would you want to charge less? Currently the charge is $250. The new law also says "If the seller does not request a particular method of transmission, the management company or association may choose the method, but must comply with any in-person requests of the seller at the management company or associationʼs principal place of business to provide a hard copy of the packet." Here's what it says about charging for the electronic form. In addition to changes relating to who may receive the packet, House Bill 516 also elaborates on the methods of transmitting the packet by providing detailed requirements relating to electronic transmission. Section 55-509.5(C) provides that the seller or authorized agent may request the management company or association to provide the disclosure packet in hard copy or in electronic form. If the seller does not request a particular method of transmission, the management company or association may choose the method, but must comply with any in-person requests of the seller at the management company or associationʼs principal place of business toprovide a hard copy of the packet. The management company or association cannot charge a seller an extra fee to use its electronic network or system if the seller requests an electronic transmission. In addition, the seller may designate: (1) in condominiums, up to two additional recipients; but (2) for property owners associations, one additional recipient, to receive the electronic disclosure packet at no charge.

MikeS1

Posts:0

08/07/2008 10:31 AM
We have an investment property here in VA.

RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:3725

08/07/2008 12:36 PM
John, In Colorado the controlling docs, and certain financials and minutes must be provided prior to a sale. So we have and provide all HOA documents in digital text PDF format. Besides use for home sales the controlling docs are posted on a website for any prospective buyer to view and the financials and minutes are posted for owners to view. The docs which were only available on hard copy, such as the Declaration, were scanned and reformated using OCR to create text format. This is done to significantly reduce the file size. We currently use OCR program Omniscan 16 to convert. Those text documents are then edited to correct any errors created during the conversion. On the Declaration we post a disclaimer which specifies each step on how the document was created. The Association is charged for the cost to scan, OCR, and edit. There is no charge to the Seller for providing digital copies by email. We would charge for paper copies and for faxing but have had no recent requests for either.

Roger Borcherding Official HOATalk.com Sponsor DARCO Property Management (Colorado) (303) 925-0150 *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2498

08/07/2008 12:50 PM
I see nothing wrong with providing the docs in this manner. However if the buyer doesn't have an email address, they would have to receive hard copies. Last year my assn mailed a CD containing all the gov. docs to all the members of my assn. So, I know the manager can provide this info to a potential buyer very easily, providing the buyer has furnished an email address.

PeterB1
(Florida)

Posts:70

08/07/2008 2:25 PM
RogerB, We have followed a similar process to scan and convert our documents. However, we have several amendments that modify the original document. For ease of use by residents and prospective buyers, we have incorporated the changes and produced a new document. While most people seem to appreciate the changes, we were criticized by one escrow firm for not providing the original documents as they are on file. We did comply with that request. Are we out of line in trying to make life easier? Whatever we provide is not a 'legal' document under any circumstance - originals are on file at the County. Opinions?

KirkW1
(Texas)

Posts:1190

08/07/2008 6:22 PM
P... I'm very curious if anyone else has gone digital and started issuing electronic version of the docs. Many questions come to mind that probably only PM's can answer,... 1. Is it very expensive to have this professionally scanned? I personally don't think it is very expensive. Part of your cost will depend on if you simply provide PDF images or use OCR so that people can search it. 2. Can any part of it be OCR'd instead of scanned? OCR takes place after the scan. You would scan the document and then run OCR to convert the image into searchable text. 3. Do the components of the package change too often so that this would just be too difficult to modify or keep updated? Actually, few items probably would change. With just a little planning you could actually provide much more information that stays very up to date. You can then produce a CD on demand with the latest information. 4. Is more trouble than it's worth? I think that you will probably have growing pressure to provide this. More and more people would rather have the information in electronic form. And if you take the time to make it searchable, then you can also use it when looking for something in your documents. 5. Is there a cost savings? In the short run, no. But in the long run you should incur some cost savings. After the cost of putting things together, you could produce a very nice looking CD for less then $1 in material. Further the amount of time to produce a single copy is minutes. 6. The law says that you cannot charge more for the electronic version. Can you or would you want to charge less? Currently the charge is $250. I would hope that either way for $250 you would be doing more then providing a copy of the documents. Other then initial costs, the cost per copy in material would be on the order of a single dollar. (This should include a nice printing on the CD.) One thing to decide is if you want the people to have an image of the documents as recorded in the courthouse. If you want them to have this, then I would actually look to provide two copies. One of which is searchable, the other is simply a PDF image.

KirkW1
(Texas)

Posts:1190

08/07/2008 6:29 PM
If you are providing the documents on a CD, then it should be quite easy to provide a copy of the documents as they are at the courthouse and a copy of the documents as they now read. I want to see our HOA move to this method. The copy as recorded will probably be nothing more then an image in PDF format. Then the copy as they now stand will be a searchable document. You could even offer the document in multiple formats.

RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:3725

08/07/2008 8:24 PM
Peter, the original Declaration and Articles and any amendments to them should be provided. For Bylaws and Rules and Regs the latest copies if all inclusive should be adequate.

Roger Borcherding Official HOATalk.com Sponsor DARCO Property Management (Colorado) (303) 925-0150 *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:2513

08/07/2008 11:32 PM
To all, Facinating. I expect my experience is typical in getting something like this off the ground and Roger has noted it in his remarks. He gets everything proofed. We received a CD with our documents on them after being scanned with OCR. They were never proofed and now everyone has a CD with BAD and confusing documents and a couple folks took their copy, set it right and put it on our Web site, so now, my CD sits on the shelf, no good to anyone and I would bet a ton of folks think they actually have good copies. Boards don't like to admit they made mistakes. It will gradually be fixed.........over time. I use the Web Page copy. I didn't ask if the scanned copy was registered at the court house and if so, has it been changed. I will one day.

KirkW1
(Texas)

Posts:1190

08/08/2008 5:17 AM
I like the idea of providing a scanned copy of what is at the courthouse as it is a testament as to completeness. Each page has a sequential numbering to it and you can see any missing pages. Up until recently the developer just let the management company handle the whole thing. The management company now gives a CD that is heavy on their services and includes a copy of the recorded documents. (The annoying thing to me is that they were not put in correct order before scanning and thus you aren't sure the whole thing is really there.) It is my hope that by year's end we will be ready to try and update this with a CD containing a searchable copy and an image of the recorded copy (in correct order) on a CD. Part of how soon it will happen depends on if we can get a volunteer (or decide to spend the money if we can't).

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