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SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:92

08/05/2008 8:16 PM
Earlier this year, our property manager told us that it would begin charging its clients $1 per month for each box of stored documents it has in a self-storage company. for us, that appears to be about $24 a month. That prompted me to suggest to the board that we create a document retention policy and then look into hiring a company to scan the items we're required to keep onto CDs. Has anyone out there done a project like this before? If so, I'd love any comments and suggestions you may have. What did you look for when selecting a company? Do you do periodic audits of the records to ensure things are being retained or tossed according to the policy? How often do you consult your attorney and folks like that to ensure what you keep and toss lines up with state and federal law (especially taxes)? How long did it take you to organize and/or toss your old paperwork? Do you keep the CDs with the property manager, a safe deposit box or a self storage company (I already know nothing will be kept at our clubhouse or a board member's home for obvious reasons. And so on. NOTE TO INDIANA CONTRIBUTORS TO THIS WEBSITE - if you have any suggestions regarding documentation storage companies in the Central Indiana area, do let me know that as well. We've already consulted our attorney and I'm hoping to discuss this with our Association insurance carrier (one of several items we need to discuss!) and accountant. Once we get their thoughts, we'll likely draft a formal policy and have the attorney accountant and insurance rep review it to make sure we've covered everything.

RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:3725

08/05/2008 8:53 PM
Shelia, There are certain guidelines for how long to keep each type of document. With 24 boxes it suggests to me that you are long overdue for culling out and destroying many outdated unnecessary documents. You can use the search button for guidelines I previously posted on time required to store documents. This could be done while scanning. However, the time to scan will probably be more costly than the cost to store. We and many other MCs offer free storage.

Roger Borcherding Official HOATalk.com Sponsor DARCO Property Management (Colorado) (303) 925-0150 *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

KirkW1
(Texas)

Posts:1190

08/06/2008 5:31 PM
It has been a few years, but as I recall in talking with several outfits the cost of scanning documents varied from 3 to 15 cents per page. Part of the variation is how much processing goes into the scan. The more organizational work, the more the cost. Also, it will cost more if you want the documents to go through OCR (Optical Character Recognition making them search able). Of course if you want the OCR to be proofed you send the cost up more. Other ideas are to check at a copy center as they may be able to place them on the copy machine and scan the documents into PDF format. Many large copy machines now have these feature as well. (I scanned my board book in at work this way.) I would also agree that you should create a retention policy and review the documents to rid yourselves of those not needed. Keep in mind that hanging onto documents beyond when you are required to can prove to be costly.

MarianneG
(Indiana)

Posts:51

08/06/2008 6:43 PM
Shelia, There is a records storage company in the Indianapolis area. It is called "Now Records Service" (Indpls phone book lists them). I know they store paper medical records, and if they do not store other types, maybe they could direct you to a different company. They will pick up and deliver records as you need them, and I'm sure there is a charge. I do not know whether they put records on CDs. It does sound as if your BOD needs to purge files and keep only those necessary records. Good Luck. Marianne

GeorgerwilliamsW
(Indiana)

Posts:768

08/07/2008 1:11 AM
Sheila, et al. I would not make any bigger deal out of document retention than needed. Clearly, you are asking the right questions--you know what you are doing and have to do. Roger is right on target. Scanning is expensive. Also in the phone book are a number of companies that will shred your unneeded paperwork. It sounds odd, I am sure, but you might want to talk to people at the Indiana Historical Society about guidelines (what and how) for preservation of some documents that may have historical value in 100 years. Not every document will fall into that category. From a broader perspective, I would suggest that you are being nickled and dimed by the property manager. You might be just as well off to suggest that a document storage charge is sufficient impetus to seek bids at the next contract renewal date.

SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:92

08/07/2008 8:30 AM
Thanks one and all for the suggestions! Roger, I did find some threads on this subject on the website and will be copying that information to share with the board. Marianne – thanks for the tip on the documentation service (when I first looked in the phone book, I only found one or two companies, which seemed really strange – and I checked the Yellow and Business Yellow pages. I will try again, though). Our office uses Shred-It, a company that comes to the office and shreds everything in its truck, but I’m sure they’re very expensive – I’m hoping to find a company that can bundle services. GeorgerwilliamsW – the scanning fees concern me also, but I’m even more concerned about paper being eaten up by who knows who or falling apart as soon as you take it out of the box. I don’t know how far back these 24 documents go (I suspect at least to the mid 1980s), so we may have no choice, but to bite the bullet on that. (By the way, I’ve read some of your comments on other subjects on this board – I get the feeling there’s a considerable amount of drama going on in your HOA – I wish you well in dealing with it. As apathetic as our homeowners are, sometimes I wish for drama just to see if anyone’s paying attention or if they have a pulse!) As for the storage charges – this is a new policy of the property manager and I do want next year’s budget (we start working on that next month) to include a line item for this, as I don’t know if this item was added to the monthly management company fee – the company president going to attend this month’s meeting, and this is one of MANY items I intend to ask about. Indiana folks, if I get a line on a company that charges a decent fee to assist HOAs with this stuff, I’ll let you know.

JohnK3
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:565

08/07/2008 10:06 AM
When we went self-managed earlier this year, our previous PM gave us about 90 pounds of documents covering about 7 years. With the help of some excellent 18 year-old Scotch, we (the Board) culled it down to a single box, dumping the rest. Most of this stuff was/is junk. Did we really need landscaping invoices from 2002? Nope.

RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:3725

08/07/2008 1:16 PM
Last year I took over an Association from the previous MC and allowed the President and Treasurer to pickup the records and cull them. They wanted to say money rather than pay me to do the job. BIG BIG MISTAKE!! They threw away records which should have been kept. Some forever, such as minutes and all controlling docs. Some for at least 7 years, such as taxes and certain maintenance information. Some for 3 years and miscellaneous correspondence for atleast a year.

Roger Borcherding Official HOATalk.com Sponsor DARCO Property Management (Colorado) (303) 925-0150 *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

GloriaM
(North Carolina)

Posts:778

08/07/2008 1:39 PM
Just to add onto Roger's last comment about throwing out certain records. We took over an HOA in December of 2007. They have been paying 2 water bills and were telling 2 past management companies that the water bill is too high for their 1 entrance. Both MC's gave a reason (water dept raise water by 12%, there was a cut in the water line). Neither MC ever resolved the issue for the HOA. Neither reason was correct and an HOA down the street was being unjustly enriched by this other HOA paying their water bill. Good thing they had their 2002 - 2007 water bills because we were able to prove in just 3 days of research that over $6,000.00 is to be paid back to the HOA. Just something to consider.

Dr. Gloria J. Martinez, CFO Official HOATalk.com Sponsor Author of "A Guide to Community Living" Faith Management Services, LLC (North Carolina) (704) 799-3791 www.FaithManagementServices.com *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

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