SeanM
Posts:0
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| 08/04/2008 9:40 AM |
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My HOA is paying the Cell phone bills for the Board because they are constantly answering calls and emails from their phone it has been costing the Board members alot more money on their bills. Is this legal?
Our Bylaws state that Board members should not be compensated, but it also says they should be reinbursed for expenses related to their performances as Board members.
Anyone else have an HOA that does this? |
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JohnO6
(Georgia)
Posts:122
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| 08/04/2008 9:57 AM |
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It's probably legal, but IMHO definitely not wise. It's just asking for trouble in separating business from personal use and the consequent reimbursements.
Rarely would owner call be of such an urgent nature as to require immediate contact with a Board member (e.g. justification for cell phone calls).
Instead, they should call the managment company if you have one.
If not they can call a Board members home line and leave a message.
Or you could set up a community voicemail service that Board members could be responsible for monitoring and responding to. |
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KirkW1
(Texas)
Posts:1190
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| 08/04/2008 10:07 AM |
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From what you have posted it is legal. But there should be a better way then to have Board members constantly answering calls on their cell phones. Aside from the expense which adds up, it is a drain on the Board members if they are constantly answering calls.
I would suggest that they get a phone with voice mail and they let people call that number. With Vonage the cost is a very reasonable $25 a month before taxes. |
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NicoleO4
Posts:0
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| 08/04/2008 10:34 AM |
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Kirk I agree. I use Vonage for my home line ( computer and fax ) it is the most reasonable priced plan. I would encourage NOBODY using their cell phone for HOA business unless it's a dire emergency.
I don't know if I would like my HOA paying for a boards cell phone. I am on the other end and use my cell phone, but to think the HOA would have to pay this is not really acceptable to me. I suggest the Voange idea or make it part of an agenda item and have the memeber ship vote on this.. Just to make it all legal.. |
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BradP
(Kansas)
Posts:1742
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| 08/04/2008 11:01 AM |
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Sean:
It is probably legal, although as others have posted it isn't the best course of action IMO. I guess the question I would have is are they paying charges for just HOA related activities or are they paying the whole bill. To me it is a convenience thing to answer email from a cell phone and also to make calls....I think it is an unnecessary expense. |
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JohnK3
(Pennsylvania)
Posts:565
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| 08/04/2008 11:01 AM |
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An expense is an expense. As S/T, I keep track of my mileage whenever I go to the bank or our PO Box and will be reimbursed at year's end. 50 cents a mile. Literally, small change. Though so far this year, probably close to 100 miles.
So if somebody wants to document what calls were HOA business, pay 'em. Though if somebody wants to document what calls were HOA business, they might be in need of a hobby.
"Constantly"? That's a bunch. |
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BrianB
(California)
Posts:1748
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| 08/04/2008 12:14 PM |
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i like JohnK's advice: phone calls are a legitimate business expense, and should be reimbursed. Would you reimburse a board member for the stamps used to mail out answers to HO's questions? if so, you should reimburse minutes.
I would NOT, however, just carte blanche pay for the entire cell phone service, UNLESS that cell phone were dedicated to HOA business only. |
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:2948
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| 08/04/2008 12:37 PM |
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Kirk
I don't like the idea of all of the BOD having cell phones paid for by the HOA. There should be one number that everyone calls, leave messages when no one answers and some one person dedicated to answering those calls.
With all of these calls there is no way those calls can be sorted out from personal business and should not be mixed anyhow. And why are the Board members constantly answering their phones? How about communication from Board member to Board member? Too many chances of information getting lost in the translation or communication between members. Unless this association has thousands of members, this statement seems like there is an excessive amount of calls.
My Florida villa is so lucky because our P.M and his company have a 24 hour with live people answering It is an 800 number where all calls go. Work orders, complaints, and the security systems in each home go to their call center along with any 911 calls. It is certainly less costly that 5 or more cell phone bills. |
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JeanneK3
(Maryland)
Posts:134
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| 08/04/2008 12:45 PM |
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| The secretary of my condo board had her computer fixed with association money. This could be considered a valid expense but this expenditure was never voted on in an open board meeting or put in the board's minutes. It's the keeping it quiet that makes you gag. |
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:2948
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| 08/04/2008 12:54 PM |
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Jeannie,
Maybe it was filed under "Office Expense" which is where it should go. I am sure that she needs a computer to keep up with her duties as Sec. and this would not need to be voted on. There are expenses under line items that do not get Board votes every time that a repair or purchase is needed. |
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SusanW1
(Michigan)
Posts:2316
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| 08/04/2008 3:35 PM |
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I can't imagine Board members talking so much to each other that it could even be billable time!
In fact, Board business is NOT to be conducted electonically, EXCEPT if it is allowed in the bylaws.
Incredible!!
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MaryA1
(Arizona)
Posts:2498
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| 08/04/2008 4:23 PM |
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I agree with Susan, and, in fact, was thinking the same thing! Actually, my thought was, "why are they receiving so many calls from members"? So maybe it's not the members but rather other board members. At any rate, business shouldn't be conducted via phone or email and member shouldn't be calling so frequently unless there a big problems w/i the assn.
But, if the board agrees, these HOA-related calls can be reimbursed. |
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MicheleD
(Kentucky)
Posts:1862
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| 08/04/2008 4:24 PM |
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Our HOA has an HOA cell phone.
It gets passed from one director to another (we rotate who "mans" it) and the residents know to call only that one number for comments, questions, messages, etc.
If I need to make calls on behalf of the HOA, I use my home phone. If I do use my cell phone, it's highly unlikely that my "cell minutes" are so tight that the calls I need to make or receive on behalf of the HOA would even register on the radar screen.
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MaryA1
(Arizona)
Posts:2498
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| 08/04/2008 4:25 PM |
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Posted By JohnK3 on 08/04/2008 11:01 AM
An expense is an expense. As S/T, I keep track of my mileage whenever I go to the bank or our PO Box and will be reimbursed at year's end. 50 cents a mile. Literally, small change. Though so far this year, probably close to 100 miles.
So if somebody wants to document what calls were HOA business, pay 'em. Though if somebody wants to document what calls were HOA business, they might be in need of a hobby.
"Constantly"? That's a bunch.
Wow, John. Are you a nickle & dimer, or what! LOL When I was treasurer I never thought of keeping track of mileage for all my trips to the bank and P.O. I only worried about being reimbursed for actual out-of-pocket expenses.
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BradP
(Kansas)
Posts:1742
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| 08/04/2008 4:28 PM |
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Posted By MaryA1 on 08/04/2008 4:25 PM Posted By JohnK3 on 08/04/2008 11:01 AM
An expense is an expense. As S/T, I keep track of my mileage whenever I go to the bank or our PO Box and will be reimbursed at year's end. 50 cents a mile. Literally, small change. Though so far this year, probably close to 100 miles.
So if somebody wants to document what calls were HOA business, pay 'em. Though if somebody wants to document what calls were HOA business, they might be in need of a hobby.
"Constantly"? That's a bunch. Wow, John. Are you a nickle & dimer, or what! LOL When I was treasurer I never thought of keeping track of mileage for all my trips to the bank and P.O. I only worried about being reimbursed for actual out-of-pocket expenses.
Mary:
I imagine $4.00/gallon gas has a lot to do with that, I used to ignore mileage when it was a $1.50...not now. Spending your gas is an actual expenses. |
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BradP
(Kansas)
Posts:1742
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| 08/04/2008 4:29 PM |
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| I agree with Donna...one HOA cell phone is all that should be needed...one simple phone. Checking your email on a phone is a luxury to me. |
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MaryA1
(Arizona)
Posts:2498
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| 08/04/2008 4:30 PM |
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Posted By JeanneK3 on 08/04/2008 12:45 PM
The secretary of my condo board had her computer fixed with association money. This could be considered a valid expense but this expenditure was never voted on in an open board meeting or put in the board's minutes. It's the keeping it quiet that makes you gag.
Jeanne,
Does she only use this computer for assn business? If not, and I was on the board, I would NEVER vote to reimb. her this expense. I could see reimb. for a ribbon and ream of paper once in awhile if she is generating a lot of correspondence, but not to repair the computer.
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SusanW1
(Michigan)
Posts:2316
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| 08/04/2008 4:48 PM |
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Bet it was an upgrade - perhaps for the new accounting system??
In that case, I would be supportive of paying for it.
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JeanneK3
(Maryland)
Posts:134
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| 08/04/2008 5:20 PM |
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| I doubt that she uses the computer for only association business. But with a secretive board, how's one to know? |
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KirkW1
(Texas)
Posts:1190
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| 08/04/2008 8:05 PM |
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Donna,
Like I said, it doesn't seem like a good way to do business if board members are constantly on the phone (especially if that is racking up HOA expenses). I do like the idea of having an HOA phone that is rotated if you don't have a PM of any type. But I don't feel that any BOD member should always be on call for the residents. |
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MaryA1
(Arizona)
Posts:2498
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| 08/04/2008 9:25 PM |
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Posted By SusanW1 on 08/04/2008 4:48 PM
Bet it was an upgrade - perhaps for the new accounting system??
In that case, I would be supportive of paying for it.
Why would the secretary need to use an accounting system, whether old or new??? But, I'm sure you were thinking it was the treasurer. And, yeah, I'd be supportive also, but only if the software is the property of the assn. There might be a new treasurer next week, next month or next year, right?
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JeanneK3
(Maryland)
Posts:134
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| 08/05/2008 6:11 AM |
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| My association has a management company so all accounting is by the company. The only thing the secretary does for the board is write the minutes of board meetings. This remains an inappropriate use of association funds. |
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TonyM3
(Arizona)
Posts:140
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| 08/05/2008 6:59 AM |
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| Someone made a statement about their minutes not being that tight. You pay for x amount of personal minutes and data every month. If your HOA business forces you to go over the allotment I can see where you would make a claim for reimbursement of the additional charges. Otherwise you have no cause to make a claim. No proof of expenses no claim. |
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MaryA1
(Arizona)
Posts:2498
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| 08/05/2008 7:27 AM |
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Posted By JeanneK3 on 08/05/2008 6:11 AM
My association has a management company so all accounting is by the company. The only thing the secretary does for the board is write the minutes of board meetings. This remains an inappropriate use of association funds.
Agreed!
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AnneA1
(Delaware)
Posts:9
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| 08/05/2008 7:29 AM |
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JeanneK3 - I agree with you 100%.
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JohnK3
(Pennsylvania)
Posts:565
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| 08/05/2008 9:22 AM |
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Posted By BradP on 08/04/2008 4:28 PM Posted By MaryA1 on 08/04/2008 4:25 PM Posted By JohnK3 on 08/04/2008 11:01 AM
An expense is an expense. As S/T, I keep track of my mileage whenever I go to the bank or our PO Box and will be reimbursed at year's end. 50 cents a mile. Literally, small change. Though so far this year, probably close to 100 miles.
So if somebody wants to document what calls were HOA business, pay 'em. Though if somebody wants to document what calls were HOA business, they might be in need of a hobby.
"Constantly"? That's a bunch. Wow, John. Are you a nickle & dimer, or what! LOL When I was treasurer I never thought of keeping track of mileage for all my trips to the bank and P.O. I only worried about being reimbursed for actual out-of-pocket expenses. Mary: I imagine $4.00/gallon gas has a lot to do with that, I used to ignore mileage when it was a $1.50...not now. Spending your gas is an actual expenses.
Brad,
Correctorama. A round trip to the PO is 8.6 miles in my guzzling Grand Cherokee. 24 visits so far in 2008. I get about 14 MPG. Lots of nickles and dimes, to be sure. 24 x 8.6 x $0.50 = $103.20.
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MaryA1
(Arizona)
Posts:2498
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| 08/05/2008 12:17 PM |
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John,
It was about 6 yrs ago when I was treasurer so gas wasn't a big issue and the P.O. was about 2 mi and the bank was less than 1 mi away. Methinks you need to get a more economical car. My little Toyota Camry gets really great mileage. |
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JohnK3
(Pennsylvania)
Posts:565
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| 08/06/2008 9:15 AM |
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Mary,
The $0.50/mile is the IRS calculator for 2007. It is meant to cover all expenses related to auto use when a private car is used for business - gas, wear & tear, whatever they were thinking about. Same amount whether you have a Hummer or a Honda. Unfortunately, it doesn't cover our time spent running HOA errands nor the attendant frustrations of volunteer service. I like my Jeep. And trade-in values for SUVs ain't that hot in the current economy. Anyway, our Board set the rules and I'm stickin' to them. |
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GeorgerwilliamsW
(Indiana)
Posts:768
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| 08/06/2008 9:33 AM |
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Posted By JohnK3 on 08/06/2008 9:15 AM
Mary,
The $0.50/mile is the IRS calculator for 2007. It is meant to cover all expenses related to auto use when a private car is used for business - gas, wear & tear, whatever they were thinking about. Same amount whether you have a Hummer or a Honda. Unfortunately, it doesn't cover our time spent running HOA errands nor the attendant frustrations of volunteer service. I like my Jeep. And trade-in values for SUVs ain't that hot in the current economy. Anyway, our Board set the rules and I'm stickin' to them.
Just for the record . . .
The IRS has raised the mileage allowance that an individual taxpayer can deduct for unreimbursed business use of a personal car to $0.585 through December 31, 2008 to deal with higher gasoline prices.
Check out the information at:
http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=184163,00.html
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DwightT
(Idaho)
Posts:480
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| 08/06/2008 9:47 AM |
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I'll stick to using my bike. I'm still getting about 20 miles to the burrito.
Wonder if I could deduct my mileage anyway.....
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