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MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2157

08/08/2008 6:33 AM
Posted By VinceL on 08/07/2008 9:13 PM Since I began to communicate on the issue of "Executive Sessions", I have received posts from the following 12 people, and I appreciate that. Looking more closely, I discovered that they all had expressed opinions on other issues also. The total number of postings is 11,635 and their average is 970. Makes my 11 posts look measley. Then a thought crossed my mind - How many of these people are BOD members, and how many of those might have been offended by my posts. That was not my intention, and I apologize to any of you who felt offended. I promise I will put a sock in it from here on. NAME STATE POSTED MicheleD Kentucky 1272 MaryA Arizona 1199 RobertR South Carolina 1855 DonnaS Tennessee 2141 BradP Kansas 1699 KirkW Texas 425 SusanW Michigan 1326 EdieL Virginia 62 Nicole04 California 111 JaneK California 165 GeraldT4 782 MikeS1 Virginia 598 Vince, I am not currently a board member, although I have served on an HOA board in the past. My opinions are not based upon whether or not I'm a board member; they're based upon my knowledge of HOAs. Over the past 10-12 years I've tried to learn as much as possible about HOAs so I can give (hopefully) educated opinions regarding the various issues that arise. I've been actively involved in trying to get HOA legislation passed that will eliminate some of the problems HOA boards and members alike are faced with in my home state of AZ. No need for you to apologize; I certainly was not offended by anything you said. I think you are truly trying to get answers to questions that you have but I also feel you have preconcieved notions that are not merited. Namely, your thoughts about executive sessions and attorney-client privilege. I hope that some of the information I posted will help you to better understand that procedure. Keep in mind the fact that all of us started out with only one post, that doesn't mean it was less valuable than someone who responded with over 1,000 posts under their belt. Everyone's questions and everyone's opinions are valuable. There is something to be learned even from the opinion you don't agree with -- IF, you can keep an open mind. Keep your questions coming; that's what this forum is for.

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1676

08/08/2008 6:34 AM
Posted By VinceL on 08/07/2008 11:33 PM Hi Michele, Thank you for your very nice letter. Why can't all board members be more like you? I appreciate the compliment, but I would hazard to guess that there are some members in my community, heck, even some posters on this board, who would have a vastly different assessment of me. I was the president of our board during some of the more rocky "getting our sea legs" period, and some of the residents who were "slapped on the wrist" had less than gracious things to say about me, personally. Yes, it got ugly. Yes, there were threats against me, damage to my property, and malicious reports to various county agencies to "investigate" alleged improper activities at my home. My favorite still has to be the report to animal control that I was breeding Yorkies to Rottweilers and running an illegal breeding operation with them. I answered the door holding my neutered male Yorkie while my spade female was sniffing the animal control officer's feet. I know my male Yorkie would have loved the opportunity to stud out to a Rott, but not sure how my female would have felt the other way around. Ouch. Anyway, there were times I got frustrated. There were times I wanted to lash out personally. But in the end, a career in a male dominated industry helped me develop a thick skin. And taught me to let the distractions go and focus on the important issues and goals. Short-term satisfaction (vindictiveness?) can really sabotage long-term goals. I do think that most homeowners who volunteer for board positions do so because they care about their community. Many probably do have a misperception regarding what their "power" or limits are. Rogue boards do a great deal of harm not just to their own communities, but to the reputation of managed communities all around. The only thing I can say about that is that the homeowners have to care. They have to get involved, and they have to education themselves about what, exactly, their own responsibilities are to the larger community as well. If the situation has gone on unchecked for many years, I agree, it's a difficult and often uphill battle. But it's doable and, with the right kind of posse, can be yanked out of their hands and put back on track.

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2796

08/08/2008 7:00 AM
Vince, I responded twice to your post. The first was what I thought was a sincere, learned answer to your question. The second one was a couple of questions to you as I was not sure what you were looking for. I moved from Florida last year and retired from my position on a Board . I also served as their Documents Committee chairman. Being a new community, there was much to write and we handled ARC guideline creation, Rules and Regs writting and several amendment changes , all of which I basically led the writting of. I still work on a Docs committee for a 55+ community in Florida that I have a rental unit in. So I am familiar with documents and Boards. If you feel that the opinions expressed from myself and others was not what you wanted to hear or agreed with, so be it. All of the people on your list are genuine people will differ regularily in opinions. THAT'S OKAY!! But we still give our best efforts to be truthful and correct. We aren't always so but the disclaimer on the web-site states what everyone should know and that these are opinions of the posters, nothing more.

VinceL
(California)

Posts:26

08/09/2008 11:14 AM
Found the following on the AARP site: Personal and Legal Rights In Brief: A Bill of Rights for Homeowners in Associations: Basic Principles of Consumer Protection and Sample Model Statute Research Report Andrew Kochera, AARP Public Policy Institute July 2006 Learn More Report Home Full Report (PDF) In Brief (HTML) In Brief (PDF) Learn more about AARP Public Policy Institute Associations in common-interest communities (such as homeowners associations or condominium associations) play a valuable role in modern America, and generally operate amicably to the mutual benefit of residents. For instance, they may: Provide a number of amenities (such as parks, pools, and club houses) that would be difficult to procure from many cash-strapped local governments. Set architectural standards and maintenance requirements that help reassure residents that their investment in the community is well protected. Provide opportunities for neighbors to meet and socialize, helping foster a sense of community. Maintain private streets, remove snow, and even collect garbage, thereby relieving local governments from those burdens. AARP Public Policy analysis indicates that in 2003, 46 percent of owners in single-family homeowner associations were over the age of 50, as were 56 percent of owners in condominium/coop communities. Along with the advantages of association life, there may also arise disputes between homeowners and their association. Association rules regarding participation in the association elections process, levying of fines, and procedures for resolving disputes through an objective third party can have a profound impact on the quality and enjoyment of community life. Many disagreements and disputes can be settled rather easily, but some can escalate even to the point where ownership of the home is at risk. The use of foreclosure as an enforcement tool is controversial (especially in states that permit foreclosure without a court hearing) and can be devastating to a household. The consequences of disputes can be particularly severe for older homeowners, whose homes typically represent their single largest asset. The Bill of Rights for Homeowners in Associations outlines a set of ten principles (or “rights”) and model statutory language that states can follow when developing laws and regulatory procedures for common-interest communities. Additionally, associations themselves can use these principles and the concepts in the model statute explanatory discussions when developing or modifying their own governing documents. The issues addressed are applicable to all forms of common-interest communities. Bill of Rights for Homeowners I. The Right to Security against Foreclosure An association shall not foreclose against a homeowner except for significant unpaid assessments, and any such foreclosure shall require judicial review to ensure fairness. II. The Right to Resolve Disputes without Litigation Homeowners and associations will have available alternative dispute resolution (ADR), although both parties preserve the right to litigate. III. The Right to Fairness in Litigation Where there is litigation between an association and a homeowner, and the homeowner prevails, the association shall pay attorney fees to a reasonable level. IV. The Right to Be Told of All Rules and Charges Homeowners shall be told—before buying—of the association’s broad powers, and the association may not exercise any power not clearly disclosed to the homeowner if the power unreasonably interferes with homeownership. V. The Right to Stability in Rules and Charges Homeowners shall have rights to vote to create, amend, or terminate deed restrictions and other important documents. Where an association’s directors have power to change operating rules, the homeowners shall have notice and an opportunity, by majority vote, to override new rules and charges. VI. The Right to Individual Autonomy Homeowners shall not surrender any essential rights of individual autonomy because they live in a common-interest community. Homeowners shall have the right to peaceful advocacy during elections and other votes as well as use of common areas. VII. The Right to Oversight of Associations and Directors Homeowners shall have reasonable access to records and meetings, as well as specified abilities to call special meetings, to obtain oversight of elections and other votes, and to recall directors. VIII. The Right to Vote and Run for Office Homeowners shall have well-defined voting rights, including secret ballots, and no director shall have a conflict of interest. IX. The Right to Reasonable Associations and Directors Associations, their directors and other agents, shall act reasonably in exercising their power over homeowners. X. The Right to an Ombudsperson for Homeowners Homeowners shall have fair interpretation of their rights through the state Office of Ombudsperson for Homeowners. The ombudsperson will enable state oversight where needed, and increases available information for all concerned.

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2157

08/10/2008 7:37 AM
Vince, I'm sure you are aware this H/O Bill of Rights is NOT law. Some states may have tried to adopt it as state law, but I'm not aware that has been accomplished in any state. I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong! LOL

GeorgerwilliamsW
(Indiana)

Posts:705

08/10/2008 7:59 AM
Vince, I'll take your side. I find the AARP Bill of Rights to be a far better model for homeowner associations than uniform draft that has been circulating for many years. The issue is balancing individual rights and community needs. In some states, the balance is heavily in favor of the association. In other states, including Hoosierland, the balance is in favor of the homeowner. One problem is that lawyers and professional management firms want a strong association, since that is where they earn their keep. So there is a intensive lobbying effort in some states to make sure that the associations have the upper hand. The other problem is that we are using an outdated model of association governance. The corporate model does not work well; the not-for-profit model does not work well; and the private pseudo-government model works worst of all. Life sure is fun, ain't it??

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2796

08/10/2008 10:33 AM
George and Vince, In a perfect world, the AARP guidelines would be pretty darn close to being the way it should be but this isn't a perfect world. If we could get all Boards to follow those guidelines, wouldn't that be wonderful and we'd all be less stressed in management of our HOAs. On the other side of the coin, if ALL homeowners followed all of the covenants and rules, then there would be no need for all of the fines, limitations, arguements and court cases with HOA against the owners. Some States are more proactive in governing their HOAs. Cal, Fl, Col, and Az are leaders in laws and statutes that try to be balanced for both HOA and owners. I know there are other States working towards that goal as well. I have stated a few times that there should be a national standard or guidelines that all States must follow. NO Federal involvement as they screw up even good things. And then each State adapts to their individual needs. Just my opinion.

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2157

08/10/2008 11:50 AM
Posted By DonnaS on 08/10/2008 10:33 AM George and Vince, I have stated a few times that there should be a national standard or guidelines that all States must follow. NO Federal involvement as they screw up even good things. And then each State adapts to their individual needs. Just my opinion. I believe that was the intent of the UCIOA (uniform common interest ownership act). Some states have adopted it, but the greater majority haven't. Many, if not most, HOA advocates vehemently oppose it, I guess because it was written by attorneys.

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2796

08/10/2008 12:01 PM
Yeah, Down with those stinkin attorneys. (Not you good ones)

VinceL
(California)

Posts:26

08/10/2008 1:12 PM
Famous Beverly Hills divorce lawyer Marvin Mitchelson once said that he had discovered a new body of law in his palimony practice. HOA lawyers have also discovered a new body of law. The first involves conflict between spouses and the second involves conflict between neighbors. Frequently, both types of conflict begin over trivial matters, but once the lawyers enter the fray, there is no longer any trivial aspect left. Both clients are instructed to end direct communications with each other and leave everything to the lawyers. As lawyers keep upping the ante, they sow the seeds of hatred and bitterness in their respective clients towards one another. No longer interest in merely settling their dispute, both sides want to inflict pain on each other, and the lawyers are only too happy to oblige. I believe that a majority of HOA members can modify their CC&R's and other governing documents. There is no need await new legislation to adopt the AARP Bill of Rights. What say you all?

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2796

08/10/2008 1:36 PM
Vince, I have to say that the HOA that I had my Florida home in was actually pretty darn close to being what the AARP suggestion are like. We had a glitch or two, unfortunately had to go to court on it. Some owners said that we should just settle and get out but others said that we needed to have a difinitive answer. Having said that, I had found that there were two kinds of owners which always gave the Board two different challenges. Which way to go? But always, follow the documents. The bottom line is that each and every owner signed a sworn statement upon purchasing their home. And that was to follow the Docs. If you did not like them, then don't sign. If you don't sign, then you could not purchase in the developement. Seems rather harsh but that is how the developer set it up. I agree with you on the lawyers. Simple cases become big deals and that sets the legal time clock in motion. Only the HOAs and members lose now. Florida has an "Ombsman" who works most of the cases to a settlement long before the courts get involved. It has saved HOAs many hundreds of thousands of dollars. But here again, if the Board gets to a point where they have to act as their fudituary duty call for, then they have no choice. I agree that there are so many rogue boards and they need to be removed. Fl. just passed new Statutes that require all Board members attend some sessions to learn how to interpret the Statutes and Documents of their communities. Hopefully to get more information into the associations .

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:2074

08/10/2008 2:07 PM
Donna, I think you all are circling around the dead bodies now and have a good view. You all have become much more picky about who to blame and for what. You did mention the word Rogue and should have went on and mentioned "fear" plain don't know, and plain don't care, honesty, morality, careing and not careing. All these ar contributors to our problems, and last don't forget to mention education, you are really close to that one. I enjoyed the give and take so keep it up, I think you all are doing fine.

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1676

08/10/2008 2:12 PM
In my experience with HOA lawyers over the years, I find the exact opposite to be true. Almost every single attorney we've dealt with over the years has been very conservative and has recommended a variety of options before going into court over something, if at all possible. Generally what I have found is that the resident's attorney, usually an attorney with limited or no experience with HOAs, is the one who wants to get all confrontational in a sort of "make me" (my client) kind of way and dragging things out. Even so, the few times that's happened, after a brief meeting with the HOA-experienced attorney, in all but one case the resident's attorneys recommended their client comply with the CC&Rs and avoid a court appearance/trial. The one case that went to trial, the resident's attorney tried to get him to comply, and ended up parting ways from the resident just after the trial. We know this because when our attorney tried to contact him to arrange for the dogs to be removed the attorney said he was no longer the man's attorney and had no idea how to reach him.

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2796

08/10/2008 3:18 PM
Michelle, I too have found HOA lawyers to be fair most times and want to have good settlements for all. When I reference lawyers, I want to go on the record as saying the lawyers that I find vile are all of these creeps who are defense lawyers and go on T.V to defend the rights of slimes, like child molesters, pedofiles, mass murderers, etc. You get my point. Our Association lawyer did not keep us on retainer but was always there for us. He was with a big Palm Beach firm and they coukd squeeze blood out of concrete. So I agree with what you percieve. By the way, I have 2 lawyers in our family, and they are kind of like what I don't like.

GeorgerwilliamsW
(Indiana)

Posts:705

08/10/2008 4:27 PM
Posted By VinceL on 08/10/2008 1:12 PM . As lawyers keep upping the ante, they sow the seeds of hatred and bitterness in their respective clients towards one another. No longer interest in merely settling their dispute, both sides want to inflict pain on each other, and the lawyers are only too happy to oblige. I believe that a majority of HOA members can modify their CC&R's and other governing documents. There is no need await new legislation to adopt the AARP Bill of Rights. What say you all? Vince, My experience with lawyers confirms the notion that they make more money outside of the courtroom than in it. With the exception of trial attorneys, who specialize in courtroom proceedings, resolving a dispute without a judge is more profitable. Lawyers, particularly homeowner association lawyers, do their best work through intimidation of the other party. They count on the fact that the hapless homeowner does not have ready access to a personal attorney familiar with real estate law. They also know that a judge is likely to be in more agreement with the homeowner than the association in many instances in Indiana. And they know that courts do not like attorneys to file cases that they know to be weak. About half the boilerplate covenants in a homeowners association in Hoosierland are not enforceable in court. Lawyers know that, but use their powers of intimidation to exact compliance anyway. It comes down to money. It is less costly for the homeowner to comply with unenforceable covenants than to fight--and the lawyer knows that. What is needed is a low-cost, simple, quick and effective mediation/arbitration process to resolve association-homeowner disputes. There needs to be an appeal process. Since small claims courts handle evictions for apartment owners, I wonder if jurisdiction of small claims courts could be enlarged to handle compliance disputes in homeowners associations? Where is Judge Judy when you need her?

VinceL
(California)

Posts:26

08/10/2008 4:33 PM
Michelle & Donna, Since one of you is, and the other one was, a board member, it is understandable that you would have favorable impressions of lawyers. This is how they get business. They put their best foot forward by appearing reasonable to board members for whom they are auditioning. They will be paid out of reserve funds until the court awards a favorable verdict together with attorney's fees. Then they proceed to file a lien against a homeowner's property and begin a foreclosure process that ends with a trustee sale. All of this can happen and has happened in 4 months and often without the homeowner's knowledge that a problem even existed. The buyer of the trustee's deed is usually a friend with expertise in flipping. Should the verdict be unfavorable, the reserve funds must be replenished and perhaps the homeowner's legal fees paid, so a special assessment might be in order. If another homeowner is away and is not made aware of the special assessment, his default merely triggers the process all over and the lawyers prosper even more. Why, again, are people so willing to let injustices happen in their name by allowing secret HOA meetings? Why are owners' property rights subordinated to the unintended power of directors and HOA lawyers? What could go wrong by adopting the AARP Bill of Rights?

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2796

08/10/2008 5:18 PM
Vince, Me senses that you've been burned and to spill vile out to HOAs makes you feel better. I really take offense to what you seem to work into most of your posts. I am sorry that you got burned by what you percieve as an injustice. Myself and many of the poster who are or were Board members never have "it's us against them" attitude and I really wish that you would find a kinder way to see HOAs in general. We're not all bad, we're only as good as what the memberships allow so if yours was not fair, don't label us all that way. Some of us have and had extra education on running our HOAs so to generalize all of us make me not liking to read your writtings any longer. So please, lighten up. I know that you have an opinion which you are entitled to and you cannot be a dummy but we have gotten your point about not liking HOA living. Thanks, Donna

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2796

08/10/2008 5:22 PM
I forgot to answer your question---"What could go wrong by adopting the AARP Bill of Rights?" Go to other States Statutes and see where AARP got some of their Bill Of Rights ideas. As I said, Florida, California, Arizona and many other States have some pretty good laws for HOAs.

VinceL
(California)

Posts:26

08/10/2008 5:49 PM
Donna, Sorry you took offense. None was intended. Just as it's wrong to condemn everybody because of a few "bad apples", it is equally wrong to give everybody a pass because of a few "good apples". And just as the "bad apples" get lost among the good ones, the "good apples" can also get lost among the bad ones. By removing the "iron curtain" of executive sessions, the "good apples" might become visible to me while the "bad apples" might become visible to you. Transparency is the key. Who would benefit from transparency? To whom is it detrimental?

VinceL
(California)

Posts:26

08/10/2008 6:20 PM
My question was: "What could go wrong by adopting the AARP Bill of Rights?" Your response suggested that some states have adopted parts of it, and although you did not say so, it seems to convey a sense of reluctance. The second part of your response made reference to state laws in CA, FL, AZ. I thank you for your responses, but I still await the answer to my question. Are not HOAs governed by HOA documents? Why do we need state legislation that overrides the documents we signed, and which can be modified to our satisfaction by the majority of the membership, and without outside influence?

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:2074

08/10/2008 6:55 PM
A short comment that I hope is taken as presented. Just a little something to balance the table. Vince, I am no big fans of BOD nor am I big fans of Community management, but when they work well they get the job done. As long as we are bringing up the evils of BOD, lets turn the table around and scrutinize the performance of the Homeowners themselves. How many associations do you know about that have 50 % of the people paying attention? No, make tha 40%, or 30%, or 20%. I live in a condo that has had miserable management for years, and it gets worse. But in nearly 20 years I have never seen any outpouring a concern from the owners. Of course we have about 7 full time residents out of 65, the rest absentee. And the lack of interest from owners is not a timid, I know I should be helping, it is a in your face, "I don't give a damn who does it, someone will, and it ain't going to be me." I don't think a bad board can operate without a disinterested membership. That is why we find so many association so deep in the hole, and why we find so many associations just getting by....for years and years. I have seen countless owners walk up to a Board Member at the annual meeting feel good party and tell them what a wonderful job they are doing and keep up the good work........and that BOD member could be the worst, and the owner hasn't got a clue of what he is talking about. Probably the number of active owners in a association would equal the number that read the covenants, and that includes Board Members as they also neglect to do their homework.

KirkW1
(Texas)

Posts:1110

08/10/2008 7:29 PM
Vince, I am on the BOD of my association (which went through transition in May). I will say that I had stopped following this thread. I was not offended, but don't believe that I can change your mind. And I remain a believer in executive session. As a note, our next meeting will be the first ES since I have taken office. In this case the subject is the management company suggests we send an account (home) to legal for a demand letter (at a cost of $150) to the account. I don't mind saying that I am dead set against this action. In fact, I plan to make a motion that the entire amount of the monies owed as I believe that there has been an unwarranted run-up of collection costs involved. And while I believe the owner should owe $25, I think the right thing is for us to eat even that amount given the history of the account. But the discussion prior to the vote will be in executive session. The votes deserve to be on record for all homeowners. But I that the discussion does not belong in the open unless the owner involved requests it be done in the open. Even then, I do feel that at some point we should be able to air our feelings to each other without the rest of the owners listening. After such, then we vote in the open where all can see what we decide. Yes, we should already know the outcome of the public vote leaving ES. To be honest, I view the whole HOA thing as a double edges sword. On the plus side it protects me from my neighbor turning his house into a dump, or putting a neon sign in his yard. On the negative side, the cards are stacked too much in favor of the BOD. I do like the AARP with one modification that I don't think some would agree with. I would state that the foreclosure could occur if a significant amount of time had passed on non-payment of assessments. Thus I think it could be time or dollar amount. But I think it needs to go further, in that boards need to ensure that they can survive a few missed payments while they work it out. The truth is that the HOA should no more be surviving from month to month on its income then a homeowner.

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:2074

08/10/2008 7:30 PM
Vince, Off the top of my head, I would say, the HOA has no enforcement powers, and if they do/did, that would have to come from the states. Our SC AJ seems to say settle your problems among yourselves, call me of criminal cases. But times are changing fast as more and more people move into association, we need some new considerations.

VinceL
(California)

Posts:26

08/10/2008 8:02 PM
Kirk, Congratulations. I am sure you will bring a sense of reasoned moderation to the BOD for the good of all members.

VinceL
(California)

Posts:26

08/10/2008 8:18 PM
Sometimes I think I am hearing things like: "By virtue of the First Amendment to the Constitution, we all have the right to free speech so long as it does not offend anybody else.

VinceL
(California)

Posts:26

08/13/2008 3:03 PM
Robert, In your last post you said: "Off the top of my head, I would say, the HOA has no enforcement powers, and if they do/did, that would have to come from the states". I think their powers come from the homeowners' contract with each other, and like any other private contract, must submit disputes to a court of law, if private resolution fails. The BOD should have no greater powers than those emanating from that contract, and by electing the BOD members, the rights of homeowners should not be diminished. Do you think there might be support for some entity that would acquire, from the HOA, financial liens against homeowners' properties, whose investment keeps accruing interest until the owner can bring himself current. This would protect owners from lawyer fees and foreclosures and dissuade mean-spirited BOD's from bullying neighbors over trivial matters.

KirkW1
(Texas)

Posts:1110

08/13/2008 4:41 PM
... and dissuade mean-spirited BOD's from bullying neighbors over trivial matters. Vince, The problem is that what one person's trivial is another person's federal offense. Add the home factor in and you have the makings of WW3 HOA style. Seriously, I think that people really do need to become more aware of what HOAs are all about and find one they can live with when looking for a home. When looking, people really should look at the neighborhood numerous times. And then if for instance they rarely see a car sitting on the street then consider where they intend to place their car. No cars on the street is a sure fire sign that the HOA takes it seriously. People don't think about the down side to how pretty a neighborhood got so pretty. And believe it or not here in Texas there are HOAs that have a minimum number of lights on display come Christmas. It is written in their covenants that you must display XX,000 lights from the Sunday after Thanksgiving until New Year's day.

VinceL
(California)

Posts:26

08/13/2008 7:44 PM
Kirk, Thanks for your response and I agree that one person's trivial matter is another person's Federal offense. Now we just have to find out which would more suitable to serve on a HOA BOD.

GeorgerwilliamsW
(Indiana)

Posts:705

08/14/2008 2:15 AM
Posted By VinceL on 08/13/2008 3:03 PM Robert, In your last post you said: "Off the top of my head, I would say, the HOA has no enforcement powers, and if they do/did, that would have to come from the states". I think their powers come from the homeowners' contract with each other, and like any other private contract, must submit disputes to a court of law, if private resolution fails. The BOD should have no greater powers than those emanating from that contract, and by electing the BOD members, the rights of homeowners should not be diminished. Vince, Come join us in Hoosierland. No mountains; no ocean; no deserts, but a court that agrees with your philosophy regarding homeowners associations powers. (The only real enforcement powers an association has --besides threats and intimidation---is to take the offender to court.) The legal profession tells us our homeowners association laws are out of date. The more I read here, the more I see that duplicating updating statutes from other states would only import the horrors and ills of homeowners associations. We can do better than that.

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:2074

08/14/2008 5:01 AM
Vince and George, I think I may have to sort of drop out around here. No it's not the folks here, it's just some of getting old and trying to hold things together with a handicaped spouse (Not complaining) and trying to influence our association that is 90 % absentee owners and maybe 70% rentals. It's a tough row. But I feel since I can't or at this point woon't contribute to my associations directions, past, more than future. I believe we are making some progress finally, but I find it too hard to always be the odd ball. Anyway, enough said. For George and Vince: I think George has captured what I was driving at Vince. George is a thinker and knows his subject as a whole way better than any you will run across. You don't have to agree with him all the time but you can be assured if the way is murky, take George's road because chances are it will be the way to go. Also I hope to pop in every so often, just to lurk, but I really don't fit the picture of a community leader. To Donna and many others, especially the ladies. I am old enough to appreciate how difficult your road must have been, you are a bunch of smart cookies, to the man (whoops), I mean to the woman.

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