ChrisB4 (West Virginia)
Posts: 175
Posts: 175
Posted:
Are homeowners entitled to copies of HOA documents they would be allowed to review? Things like motions, bills, past minutes...ect.
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HOA documentation, are homeowners entitled to copies?
Started by ChrisB4 • 18 replies • 1715 views
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GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Do your documents or state law address it? As a rule yes they are entitled to anything not deemed privileged i.e. enforcement actions, attorney correspondence, personnel matters, etc. The MC or BOD can charge a fee for the copies, however often times it's difficult to get the copies.
Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
ChrisB4 (West Virginia)
Posts: 175
Posts: 175
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 08/01/2008 9:11 PM
Do your documents or state law address it? As a rule yes they are entitled to anything not deemed privileged i.e. enforcement actions, attorney correspondence, personnel matters, etc. The MC or BOD can charge a fee for the copies, however often times it's difficult to get the copies.
Do your documents or state law address it? As a rule yes they are entitled to anything not deemed privileged i.e. enforcement actions, attorney correspondence, personnel matters, etc. The MC or BOD can charge a fee for the copies, however often times it's difficult to get the copies.
I want to assure everyone that I have, to the best of my knowledge poured though stat law, our By-Laws and the CC&R's
ChrisB4 (West Virginia)
Posts: 175
Posts: 175
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 08/01/2008 9:11 PM
Do your documents or state law address it? As a rule yes they are entitled to anything not deemed privileged i.e. enforcement actions, attorney correspondence, personnel matters, etc. The MC or BOD can charge a fee for the copies, however often times it's difficult to get the copies.
Do your documents or state law address it? As a rule yes they are entitled to anything not deemed privileged i.e. enforcement actions, attorney correspondence, personnel matters, etc. The MC or BOD can charge a fee for the copies, however often times it's difficult to get the copies.
I want to assure everyone that I have, to the best of my knowlage poured though stat law, our By-Laws and the CC&R's
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
State laws, CCRs and Bylaws rule first about disclosure of documents.
But as a rule, members are entitled to REQUEST the minutes of the board meetings. Those minutes should have financial reports as attachments, which you can review.
At the Annual Meeting of the Members, ALL members should have the end of year Financial Report, compared to the adopted budget. The Board president should give a report to the members outlining all Board activities, and all Committee shouls give reports to the members.
Now - seeing the checkbook, the reciepts for every transaction - you may be going too far and could be denied.
Some state laws say you can review all contracts signed by the Board.
What is particular did you want to see?
But as a rule, members are entitled to REQUEST the minutes of the board meetings. Those minutes should have financial reports as attachments, which you can review.
At the Annual Meeting of the Members, ALL members should have the end of year Financial Report, compared to the adopted budget. The Board president should give a report to the members outlining all Board activities, and all Committee shouls give reports to the members.
Now - seeing the checkbook, the reciepts for every transaction - you may be going too far and could be denied.
Some state laws say you can review all contracts signed by the Board.
What is particular did you want to see?
JeanneK3 (Maryland)
Posts: 562
Posts: 562
Posted:
I agree with Susan W. However, in Maryland, one can also +see the checkbook information. The issue really is if you want your community to trust the board, you must be as open as possible. If you deny a homeowner access to information about the financial health of his/her home, you plant the seed of suspicion.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Chris:
I am not aware of my state laws on it or yours...I would however suggest your HOA be as transparent as possible. A member should be entitled to review past and present documents of the HOA, but that is my opinion.
I am not aware of my state laws on it or yours...I would however suggest your HOA be as transparent as possible. A member should be entitled to review past and present documents of the HOA, but that is my opinion.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Chris,
Regardless of whether or not you think you are entitled to review any and all records of the assn is dependent upon what your gov. docs. state and also state law. If nothing is mentioned in your docs or in state law, then the board can do as they wish. In most instances the members are allowed to review or copy financial statements, meeting minutes, and other documents that do not contain confidential info. Contracts are sometimes construed as "confidential". I believe most boards would object to a member wanting to see all the invoices, the checkbook, etc. and ask for the reason. In fact, some docs or state laws may require the member to state the reason for wanting to review or copy the records.
When you are checking on state laws govening HOAs, be sure to check to see if there is are state laws pertaining to nonprofit corps. If so, your HOA must also abide by those laws, if the HOA is a nonprofit corp.
Regardless of whether or not you think you are entitled to review any and all records of the assn is dependent upon what your gov. docs. state and also state law. If nothing is mentioned in your docs or in state law, then the board can do as they wish. In most instances the members are allowed to review or copy financial statements, meeting minutes, and other documents that do not contain confidential info. Contracts are sometimes construed as "confidential". I believe most boards would object to a member wanting to see all the invoices, the checkbook, etc. and ask for the reason. In fact, some docs or state laws may require the member to state the reason for wanting to review or copy the records.
When you are checking on state laws govening HOAs, be sure to check to see if there is are state laws pertaining to nonprofit corps. If so, your HOA must also abide by those laws, if the HOA is a nonprofit corp.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Mary I think just the opposite of you, I am all for transparency with members...if they want to see a contract heck yeah, if they want to review the checkbook here you go...If the board is unwilling to show these things to me it is a red flag.
ChrisB4 (West Virginia)
Posts: 175
Posts: 175
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 08/02/2008 12:50 PM
Chris,
Regardless of whether or not you think you are entitled to review any and all records of the assn is dependent upon what your gov. docs. state and also state law. If nothing is mentioned in your docs or in state law, then the board can do as they wish. In most instances the members are allowed to review or copy financial statements, meeting minutes, and other documents that do not contain confidential info. Contracts are sometimes construed as "confidential". I believe most boards would object to a member wanting to see all the invoices, the checkbook, etc. and ask for the reason. In fact, some docs or state laws may require the member to state the reason for wanting to review or copy the records.
When you are checking on state laws govening HOAs, be sure to check to see if there is are state laws pertaining to nonprofit corps. If so, your HOA must also abide by those laws, if the HOA is a nonprofit corp.
Chris,
Regardless of whether or not you think you are entitled to review any and all records of the assn is dependent upon what your gov. docs. state and also state law. If nothing is mentioned in your docs or in state law, then the board can do as they wish. In most instances the members are allowed to review or copy financial statements, meeting minutes, and other documents that do not contain confidential info. Contracts are sometimes construed as "confidential". I believe most boards would object to a member wanting to see all the invoices, the checkbook, etc. and ask for the reason. In fact, some docs or state laws may require the member to state the reason for wanting to review or copy the records.
When you are checking on state laws govening HOAs, be sure to check to see if there is are state laws pertaining to nonprofit corps. If so, your HOA must also abide by those laws, if the HOA is a nonprofit corp.
Ok, though I was asking the question for our members, I am the VP, am I allowed to review the records? All of our records are kept by the President. I have asked several times to review motions of the Board and he ignores my requests.
As far as what records. The answer would simply be any record that a homeowner is able to review.
I'm all about transparency.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BradP on 08/02/2008 2:16 PM
Mary I think just the opposite of you, I am all for transparency with members...if they want to see a contract heck yeah, if they want to review the checkbook here you go...If the board is unwilling to show these things to me it is a red flag.
Mary I think just the opposite of you, I am all for transparency with members...if they want to see a contract heck yeah, if they want to review the checkbook here you go...If the board is unwilling to show these things to me it is a red flag.
Brad,
What I posted is not the way I feel, but just the way some boards operate the and the way some state laws are worded. This is from info I've gathered over the years. I, too, am all for transparency with members. Having served as assn treas. for a number of years, if a member had asked to see the checkbook I would gladly have shown it to them. I never had anything to hide! And, I certainly agree, any board that is unwilling to answer questions or show particular records does appear to be hiding something. That may not always be the case, but it certainly is the appearance.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Chris - what do you mean "review the motions" of the Board?
That should all be in the minutes, which you are entitled to.
That should all be in the minutes, which you are entitled to.
KirkW1 (Texas)
Posts: 1,665
Posts: 1,665
Posted:
Unless you have a contract with someone (such as a management company), the records of the association should be maintained by the secretary (with the exception of the financial records which should be held by the treasurer).
As for requiring reasons, I don't really see a point if you don't have the option of saying no. I can tell you whatever reason I choose to and it need not be the real reason. And if you do have the power to say no, then I still don't know why you should ask, because again, I might be telling one reason when I have another.
As for requiring reasons, I don't really see a point if you don't have the option of saying no. I can tell you whatever reason I choose to and it need not be the real reason. And if you do have the power to say no, then I still don't know why you should ask, because again, I might be telling one reason when I have another.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KirkW1 on 08/03/2008 12:40 PM
Unless you have a contract with someone (such as a management company), the records of the association should be maintained by the secretary (with the exception of the financial records which should be held by the treasurer).
As for requiring reasons, I don't really see a point if you don't have the option of saying no. I can tell you whatever reason I choose to and it need not be the real reason. And if you do have the power to say no, then I still don't know why you should ask, because again, I might be telling one reason when I have another.
Unless you have a contract with someone (such as a management company), the records of the association should be maintained by the secretary (with the exception of the financial records which should be held by the treasurer).
As for requiring reasons, I don't really see a point if you don't have the option of saying no. I can tell you whatever reason I choose to and it need not be the real reason. And if you do have the power to say no, then I still don't know why you should ask, because again, I might be telling one reason when I have another.
I agree with you regarding the requirement to state why you want to inspect or copy the records. However, it is in the AZ Nonprofit Corp Act which HOAs also had to abide by until the HOA statutes were amended a couple of years ago to include "inspection of records". The Nonprofit statute says a member may inspect and copy certain records if certain conditions are met, one of which is "the member's demand is made in good faith and for a proper purpose."
So, how do you determine "good faith" and "proper purpose".
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
While in truth as Kirk has stated you can't really stop them once they have the information some States allow you to withhold the Associations member's list unless you certify that it will only be used to contact members for an authorized purpose such as an HOA election. Meaning you can't sell the information or use it as a mailing list for business purposes.
Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
ChrisB4 (West Virginia)
Posts: 175
Posts: 175
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SusanW1 on 08/03/2008 10:23 AM
Chris - what do you mean "review the motions" of the Board?
That should all be in the minutes, which you are entitled to.
Chris - what do you mean "review the motions" of the Board?
That should all be in the minutes, which you are entitled to.
Our President and two other members of the Board enjoy making decisions between meetings. If a decision was made that requires a vote and you review the records and there is no vote....well, I think you get the gist.
I know decisions are supposed to be made at duly called meetings. Something I can't seem to get across to the majority.
ChrisB4 (West Virginia)
Posts: 175
Posts: 175
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KirkW1 on 08/03/2008 12:40 PM
Unless you have a contract with someone (such as a management company), the records of the association should be maintained by the secretary (with the exception of the financial records which should be held by the treasurer).
As for requiring reasons, I don't really see a point if you don't have the option of saying no. I can tell you whatever reason I choose to and it need not be the real reason. And if you do have the power to say no, then I still don't know why you should ask, because again, I might be telling one reason when I have another.
Unless you have a contract with someone (such as a management company), the records of the association should be maintained by the secretary (with the exception of the financial records which should be held by the treasurer).
As for requiring reasons, I don't really see a point if you don't have the option of saying no. I can tell you whatever reason I choose to and it need not be the real reason. And if you do have the power to say no, then I still don't know why you should ask, because again, I might be telling one reason when I have another.
The President of the HOA has taken it upon himself to claim the records in our community. Some records were turned over to me from members of the community who refuse to work with the President. The President demanded they be given to him and had the majority vote that they be given to him. Long story but it was agreed that the records (all of the resident complaints) would go to a neutral third party, and when they weren't delivered to the third party fast enough (we never set a formal date), he threatened to call the police to have me arrested for stealing. If that didn't work he contacted the Board attorney (on his own) and asked her to start a civil lawsuit against me immediately. Instead of butting heads I turned the records over when I got home yesterday.
I feel like I'm in grade school again.
Oh, and no, our By-laws don't say who should hold records.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Chris,
I'm surprised your bylaws don't state the Secretary shall maintain all the records of the assn, or something to that effect. Of course, the most important thing is that "someone" is maintaining them. I believe all the important records should be kept in one place, except for the assn. accounting books which should be kept with the treasurer or the manager if a mgmt co is employed. Copies of the financial statements should be kept by the secretary as part of the official records. The A/C records, at least for the current year, are usually kept by the A/C chairman.
I'm surprised your bylaws don't state the Secretary shall maintain all the records of the assn, or something to that effect. Of course, the most important thing is that "someone" is maintaining them. I believe all the important records should be kept in one place, except for the assn. accounting books which should be kept with the treasurer or the manager if a mgmt co is employed. Copies of the financial statements should be kept by the secretary as part of the official records. The A/C records, at least for the current year, are usually kept by the A/C chairman.
ChrisB4 (West Virginia)
Posts: 175
Posts: 175
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 08/05/2008 7:26 AM
Chris,
I'm surprised your bylaws don't state the Secretary shall maintain all the records of the assn, or something to that effect. Of course, the most important thing is that "someone" is maintaining them. I believe all the important records should be kept in one place, except for the assn. accounting books which should be kept with the treasurer or the manager if a mgmt co is employed. Copies of the financial statements should be kept by the secretary as part of the official records. The A/C records, at least for the current year, are usually kept by the A/C chairman.
Chris,
I'm surprised your bylaws don't state the Secretary shall maintain all the records of the assn, or something to that effect. Of course, the most important thing is that "someone" is maintaining them. I believe all the important records should be kept in one place, except for the assn. accounting books which should be kept with the treasurer or the manager if a mgmt co is employed. Copies of the financial statements should be kept by the secretary as part of the official records. The A/C records, at least for the current year, are usually kept by the A/C chairman.
I'm not making a big deal about the Pres having our records. He just guards them like a doberman, and refuses to give copies of anything to anyone. I think your right, that the secretary should handle the records and hope that at some point we can amend our by-laws to address all of our issues.
Thank you
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