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SallyL
(Colorado)

Posts:13

07/28/2008 6:54 AM
i need some help.i live in a subdivision am a hoa member.my question is,are common easement access roads for all members to travel on or are they only for the people living on these roads.am being told by a board member that no one can drive on a road in this subdivision unless you live on the road.we all pay dues,the developer made these roads.i understand the public is not to drive but what about members of hoa.this is all about a gate at the end of a named road.road starts on a county road there is a 60' easement the developer made and the road ends at public land.the easement is over a persons land but the whole subdivision is laid out that way.this is in colorado.

GeorgerwilliamsW
(Indiana)

Posts:705

07/28/2008 8:01 AM
This is a excellent question. I hope someone from Colorado has the correct answer for you. So much depends upon state law. And so much depends upon how the easement is granted in the recorded deed. Just for illumination, here is what our covenants in Hoosierland say about the issue: "Section 2. Right of Enjoyment. Every Owner shall have a non-exclusive right and easement of enjoyment in and to the Common Area limited, however, to and for the uses and purposes for which any portion of the Common Area is designed and intended. Such right and easement shall be appurtenant to and shall pass with the title to every Lot, subject to the following provisions: A. The right of the Association to pass reasonable rules, with respect to the Common Area, for the health, comfort, safety and welfare of persons using the same;" Since it is a private road, the association board has the privilege and right to make reasonable rules for access. But the covenants that go with your property may specify that all roads are open to all owners. But what about delivery and service vehicles? What about guests? What about emergency services? I would suggest that you ask the board for the specific rule which specifies what is an acceptable use before doing anything else. Hope this is somewhat helpful. Others ought to chime in as well.

SallyL
(Colorado)

Posts:13

07/28/2008 8:44 AM
one answer recived from the board is the road ends 2' from the proprty line.that is false. another one is that the gate is locked because hunters and the public want to use th gate.don't have a problem with the gate being locked.in fact right now there are 2 locks on it.one combination,the other key.here is the problem,if you use the gate the unoffical gate keeper will come out screaming or running after you on a 4-wheeler,or just lock out the combo lock with the key lock and then your stuck out there.another thing is in the covenants it says"no gates or obstructions will be placed upon or block any access roads,unless the access road terminates on the lot owners property"terminate to me means "end of road"not the beginning.there is no private property behind this road.

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2161

07/28/2008 3:37 PM
Posted By SallyL on 07/28/2008 6:54 AM i need some help.i live in a subdivision am a hoa member.my question is,are common easement access roads for all members to travel on or are they only for the people living on these roads.am being told by a board member that no one can drive on a road in this subdivision unless you live on the road.we all pay dues,the developer made these roads.i understand the public is not to drive but what about members of hoa.this is all about a gate at the end of a named road.road starts on a county road there is a 60' easement the developer made and the road ends at public land.the easement is over a persons land but the whole subdivision is laid out that way.this is in colorado. Sally, If this is a public road it cannot be gated. If it is a private road (owned by the HOA) then it can be gated; however, all property owners in the HOA should have access to their property behind the gate. Many, many years ago, I lived on a private road in a rural area of N. VA. The road was owned by one of the property owners who granted an easement to all the property owners living on either side of the road. In effect, the owner of the road could have put a gate at the beginning of it but would have had to provide access to all the property owners because they were granted an easement in their deeds. Hope this helps to answer your question.

SusanW1
(Michigan)

Posts:2122

07/28/2008 3:42 PM
We have easements all over our subdivision. We have 30 ft. easements leading into the canals all over the sub. They were used in the old days when the community had their own fire dept. and the trucks were backed up and water was taken from the canals. No resident is allowed to put a dock or any structure, but could go fishing on them, if they wanted to. We also had two boat launch easements, but they were closed, due to the liablity issue. The FUNCTION of the easement is the issue. Your Board apparently is not allowing ingress and egress using this easement. Perhaps somewhere in deeds or your CCRs there are descriptions of what these easements are supposed to be for. They may simply function to not land-lock someone in, or for emergency vehicles. In our sub, the easements belong to the HOA corporation under the guidance of the Board; they do not belong to each and every one of the residents for thier indivudual use.

KirkW1
(Texas)

Posts:1110

07/28/2008 8:45 PM
Sally, You may want to contact the fire department concerning the unofficial gate keeper changing the locks so the combination doesn't work. If said person locks out the fire trucks, then they could be thrown in jail on top of huge loss in a suit.

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1362

07/28/2008 9:15 PM
I would also carry a big pair of bolt cutters whenever I used the road in case the lock were changed.

GeorgerwilliamsW
(Indiana)

Posts:705

07/29/2008 3:43 AM
Posted By GlenL on 07/28/2008 9:15 PM I would also carry a big pair of bolt cutters whenever I used the road in case the lock were changed. Glen, I suspect this is a tongue in cheek thought. I did smile when I read it. Of course, this would be the entirely wrong way to assert one's rights. Humor is good. Just want to be sure people don't take you too literally.

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1362

07/29/2008 8:38 AM
No George, I was serious. Since the OP has the combination of the lock, they evidently have the right to use the road. If I came back out and found the lock changed by this person preventing me from leaving I would cut it off in a second. It is a lawsuit waiting to happen, what god forbid someone is injured and dies waiting for this HOA commando to come back and unlock the gate?

GeorgerwilliamsW
(Indiana)

Posts:705

07/29/2008 8:50 AM
Posted By GlenL on 07/29/2008 8:38 AM No George, I was serious. Since the OP has the combination of the lock, they evidently have the right to use the road. If I came back out and found the lock changed by this person preventing me from leaving I would cut it off in a second. It is a lawsuit waiting to happen, what god forbid someone is injured and dies waiting for this HOA commando to come back and unlock the gate? Ouch!!!

SallyL
(Colorado)

Posts:13

07/29/2008 10:47 AM
we have bolt cutters,we have never been thru the gate.i've made every excuse to my husband not to go thru the gate.don;t think he would take kindly to any verble abuse that the "gate keeper"and wife would say.so for the last 9yrs.we have talked and showed every single thing that we have that is filed at the court house.and at the last meeting people said the association did not own the road the people living on the roads do.no where is that written anywhere.these are private roads for the use and benefit of owners of the subdivision,not for public use.other then court does any body have any suggestions what we could do

SallyL
(Colorado)

Posts:13

07/29/2008 10:54 AM
the reason we have the comb.is that one of the people on that road put their own lock on.then gave it to people at a meeting.it at any time can get locked out.the peoople fighting this want us to ask permission before we go thru.i have no proplem asking permission if i need to,with this i see no need.

SusanW1
(Michigan)

Posts:2122

07/29/2008 10:55 AM
The Board needs to define the FUNCTION of that road. Is is for emergency vehicles only? Is it a walking path? Is it for everyday/everyone's use, including the general public AND residents of the HOA? Get the Board to proclaim the usage, based on the intentions of the plats and access to the land, and future use. The Association owns the road, not the individual homeowner abutting the road, or the guy living up the street.

SallyL
(Colorado)

Posts:13

07/29/2008 11:43 AM
thank you thats pretty much what i needed to hear.the association owns the road.the easement defination states:for the use and benifit of lot owners.that is written and recorded on the land plat.the one exception is the forest service,and the u.s.govenment can also use the road.in case of fire or what ever.in 1984 the land was owned by another person,the FS asked if they could use this road(it was just a 2 track dirt road) to access public land,yes they can, so they drew up papers that stated soley for FS and US gov.not the public.land was sold 1996 to developer they made the road as is today, road base,graded ,they made a real road.they also included the recorded FS paper.and that is what 2 people are trying to say that it is only for the FS.when it is for lot owners and FS but not for the general public.i really hope i did't confuse anyone

SallyL
(Colorado)

Posts:13

07/29/2008 11:43 AM
thank you thats pretty much what i needed to hear.the association owns the road.the easement defination states:for the use and benifit of lot owners.that is written and recorded on the land plat.the one exception is the forest service,and the u.s.govenment can also use the road.in case of fire or what ever.in 1984 the land was owned by another person,the FS asked if they could use this road(it was just a 2 track dirt road) to access public land,yes they can, so they drew up papers that stated soley for FS and US gov.not the public.land was sold 1996 to developer they made the road as is today, road base,graded ,they made a real road.they also included the recorded FS paper.and that is what 2 people are trying to say that it is only for the FS.when it is for lot owners and FS but not for the general public.i really hope i did't confuse anyone

SallyL
(Colorado)

Posts:13

07/29/2008 6:44 PM
thank you everyone that responded to my question. i learned alot.maybe i should tell the people in our association about to guys they could learn alot.

KirkW1
(Texas)

Posts:1110

07/29/2008 9:05 PM
I would only add that if in the platting the land is held by the HOA, then it is NOT an easement. It is in fact land owned by the HOA. And easement would be if the owner retained the deed to the land but access was granted to others. This is perhaps a fine line, but it can be an important one.

SallyL
(Colorado)

Posts:13

07/30/2008 5:25 AM
i don't understand what you mean by "if the platting is held by the hoa."

SusanW1
(Michigan)

Posts:2122

07/30/2008 6:04 AM
Sally - go to your local municipality or court house and get the subdivision's plat map. It should be on file. That is the legal and official map of everyone's property lines, including the roads, utilities, etc. You should see where the property lines end for each persons lot (plat). There may even be survey stakes in the ground for each lot.

SallyL
(Colorado)

Posts:13

07/30/2008 6:58 AM
thank you,that is what we are using.ours is 2 pages.showing pins easements cul-ed sac etc,the second page is all legal descrisions,easement defination.it shows the road starting at a CR and ending at national forest.i reread what you said "where property lines END"thats the problem they seem to think their line ends at the beginning of the property.

SallyL
(Colorado)

Posts:13

08/21/2008 7:31 AM
WELL WE HAVE ONE ANSWER,THIS ONE IS FROM THE FOREST SERVICE,THEY HAVE LOCKED THE GATE TO PUBLIC LAND.WE WHERE TOLD WE COULD JUMP OVER THE GATE OR SQUEEZE BETWEEN THE BARB WIRE TO GET ON PUBLIC LAND.THATS IT.GO FIGURE

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