EllenS1
(Florida)
Posts:400
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| 07/24/2008 9:52 PM |
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What happens when a board member consisting of five leaving four to appoint a new board member and it is split two to two of the remaining four? One has been active in volunteering and we have yet to meet the other but one of our board members says he wants to be on the board "to see what's happening". I'm thinking of calling a special meeting to meet this owner and have him be more explicit on the reason he wants to be on the board. I refuse to appoint an owner I have never met and intend to ask him what he has gotten involved in in the community (I think he has lived her about six years so if he hasn't done anything in all that time I doubt he would do much as a board member). He didn't even show up at the meeting where the new board member was to be appointd. But without member number 5 it looks like we may cancel out each other votes.
What to do? |
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RobertR1
(South Carolina)
Posts:2513
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| 07/25/2008 12:55 AM |
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Ellen.
Personally, I would tend to lean for the volunteer that has been active.
What else have you got to go on? If more information become available to the Board consider it. But at some point you will have to mke the leap.
You could, if you are presedent, select two of your four, hopefully that vote different, to make a recommendation. Also at your special meeting you may want to discuss how a consistantly split board hinders Board work.
See if you all can't change your attitudes a little. If your picture is correct, the discusion could well center on how your mandate is to serve the Real Property (Association) and not conduct a personality contest. No way is the Property being served correctly if the Board always splits their vote. |
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TonyM3
(Arizona)
Posts:140
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| 07/25/2008 1:55 AM |
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| Seems like a no-brainer but there must be a reason why the volunteer isn't performing better in the polls. Why not issue each the same challenge (the most signatures on a petition) like in celebrity apprentice and let the best person win. |
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SusanW1
(Michigan)
Posts:2316
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| 07/25/2008 6:10 AM |
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Tie vote? - keep on voting - or bring in a 3rd candidate for consideration.
I am surprised that ANY candiate was not interviewed by the current board, or at least a nomination committee before being cosidered by the Board for the position.
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KirkW1
(Texas)
Posts:1190
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| 07/25/2008 1:42 PM |
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I think you should have a meeting and talk with the two people and discuss why they want to be on the board and what they would like to accomplish. While I would lean toward the person who already has a history of volunteering, I don't know that I would go that way.
If you can't move from the tie, then you are stuck. Death matches have been deemed out of the question I am sure.  |
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MicheleD
(Kentucky)
Posts:1866
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| 07/25/2008 2:07 PM |
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Posted By SusanW1 on 07/25/2008 6:10 AM
I am surprised that ANY candiate was not interviewed by the current board, or at least a nomination committee before being cosidered by the Board for the position.
I'm not.
I would be surprised if they were.
I don't know of any HOAs in my area that have either nominating committees or a nominee interview process.
Most have the same sort of nomination and election process as we do.
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MicheleD
(Kentucky)
Posts:1866
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| 07/25/2008 2:08 PM |
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Actually, I'm speaking for a nomination/election standpoint, not from the board appointing/filling standpoint.
SO disregard me previous comment. |
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HaroldS
(Arizona)
Posts:904
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| 07/25/2008 2:23 PM |
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| You could always get out a deck of cards... http://www.roadtripamerica.com/roadside/Show-Low-Statue.htm |
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RobertR1
(South Carolina)
Posts:2513
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| 07/25/2008 2:47 PM |
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Harold,
Surely you do not jest. When I was a young 19 year old sailor and deck of cards set my work field for the next 40 some years. There were seven applications to filland ten applicants. I drawed a pir of ten, thus was selected.
In a more serious vein, selection or election of any position in an HOA is too aften by default, or the buddy system. In all honesty and only my opinion, but if it would not be for a small number of good people this whole HOA business would collpse, and that may be happening. Also, new legislation is popping up like June Bug as our legislation wakes up the the potential behind, and the wealth controlled within associations. Certainly the lawyers and the Professional Management companies sense untaped finances. (Not a bad thing necessarily) |
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EllenS1
(Florida)
Posts:400
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| 07/25/2008 6:18 PM |
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| Selecting 2 of the four would accompish nothing..then i would simply be one against one. I do agree the board needs to understand that we cannot have a board split equally if we are to attend to the business of the association. |
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EllenS1
(Florida)
Posts:400
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| 07/25/2008 6:21 PM |
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Tony,
Our docs state that is a board member resigns the board appoints a person to serve until the next election. This is not up to all the owners. |
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EllenS1
(Florida)
Posts:400
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| 07/25/2008 6:25 PM |
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Susan,
I would love to bring in a third candidate but nobody is stepping forward. I intend to have a special meeting to see what this candidate has to offer. If he is not interested in attending I think that says it all and hopefully the board can reach a consensus..but if not, then what? |
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TonyM3
(Arizona)
Posts:140
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| 07/25/2008 6:31 PM |
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Posted By EllenS1 on 07/25/2008 6:21 PM
Tony,
This is not up to all the owners.
I understand that, although the board also has the right to delegate the responsibility especially since they're deadlocked. I can't imagine a better scenario than prospective board members caring enough to garner member support. It's very possible that when the candidates are presented with the challenge the weaker one may drop out of the running. Problem solved.
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EllenS1
(Florida)
Posts:400
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| 07/25/2008 6:34 PM |
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Kirk,
Why wouldn't you vote for the person who has been involved and volunteering? We will meet with the other person who says he wants to be on the board but who wasn't serious enough to show up at the board meeting. In fact, the board hasn't heard from him. We have a special meeting set to appoint a new board member. I hope we can get a definitive vote then but if not I will remind the board we may need an outside person to act in the place of the board with the associated costs. |
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KirkW1
(Texas)
Posts:1190
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| 07/25/2008 6:45 PM |
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Why wouldn't you vote for the person who has been involved and volunteering?
I might vote for the person who has been volunteering. I just can't say that the person would automatically win. Certainly if one person couldn't bother to come to the meeting before they were appointed to the board it would not bode well for my vote. |
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EllenS1
(Florida)
Posts:400
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| 07/25/2008 6:51 PM |
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Tony,
In theory this sounds good but we have owners who could care less..something I think is common. I volunteered on the board to help our association not to fight personality conflicts. I have a life outside of the association and do not intend to garner member support which should not be necessary. The board member when asked three times why does his person want to be on the board replied "he wants to know what is going on". This candidate didn't even show up for the meeting where he would be considered or even call any board member. Wow, this candidate has lived here for about six years, never done anything or attended any meetings except for the annual and all of a sudden he wants to be on the board.
Not good enough for me. |
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EllenS1
(Florida)
Posts:400
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| 07/25/2008 6:54 PM |
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Tony,
I may not have made myself clear..this is not up to the polls. It is by a vote of the board members only..not the entire membership. A petition is not necessary. |
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RobertR1
(South Carolina)
Posts:2513
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| 07/25/2008 8:19 PM |
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To all,
Reading back on this thread, it has turned into; how can a four member board, that is split 2/2 on most issues that will be presented before it, be productive if we add a new unknown allied Board member. Now, if that is the case, we really need to fix the problem, and it is not, at least not now, who do you select for a temporary board member. First tou have to sovle the unhealthy condition that there is always a 2/2 vote on the board. If you start off any business knowing that, how can you succeed? I would suggest the four members sort their issues out first and reach a complete understanding that any issue before the Board will be decided with only one thought in mind. The good of the association. There are plenty of topics that can be discussed along party linea, but voting time is not one of them. That must be resolved first, or nothing will change with an additional member, except, the newmember may decide, "Hey, I can always be the swing vote, so that means I can soley run this organization.
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TonyM3
(Arizona)
Posts:140
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| 07/25/2008 8:51 PM |
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Posted By EllenS1 on 07/25/2008 6:51 PM
I volunteered on the board to help our association not to fight personality conflicts. I have a life outside of the association and do not intend to garner member support which should not be necessary.
I'm a bit confused, I believed you were already a board member. Are you saying you are not and are one of the two replacement candidates?
Either way, I'm not saying the board should do any additional work outside of sending the candidates out into the neighborhood to gather support for their own cause. It doesn't really matter how the neighborhood responds. One signature beats zero. I don't see anything wrong with campaigning. |
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AnnaD2
(Florida)
Posts:386
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| 07/26/2008 5:38 AM |
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Hi Ellen. I understand perfectly what you're saying. I doubt you'll be able to sway the other two board members to see your point of view. They've already made up their minds. (Why they want this disinterested person, who knows?) At our condo, any interested parties MUST submit a letter outlining WHY they want to be on the board and what they feel they can contribute. You may want to suggest that anyone interested in filling the vacant seat do just that. Have them submit a letter. If the "I just want to see what's going on" person doesn't take the time to submit a letter, it will prove they don't have the true interest to be on the board. When you have a special meeting to appoint someone, and if the person who truly does want to be on the board has taken the time to write a letter I'd say it should be pretty obvious to EVERY board member who the choice would be.
If both parties do submit letters I'd suggest reading them aloud, just to show what they both have to offer. Then try to vote again.
Here is another thought. This actually happened with us. There was one seat open and two people (both with good qualifications) wanted the position. Like you, the board was split. Our documents don't put a limit on how many board members we can have (except for the minimum amount). So the remaining board members appointed BOTH of them. It made for an even number of board members (which is never good), but that only lasted until the next annual election when the members again voted for only five directors. |
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RogerB
(Colorado)
Posts:3725
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| 07/26/2008 5:45 AM |
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| Ellen, it is obvious which one you want to appoint as the fifth Board member. But to answer your question as to what to do when the Board members are deadlocked 2 to 2 on two candidates with no other candidate the answer is simple. Get the Board members to agree to flip a coin to select the 5th Board member. |
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Roger Borcherding
Official HOATalk.com Sponsor
DARCO Property Management (Colorado)
(303) 925-0150 
*See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal |
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JohnM3
(Florida)
Posts:208
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| 07/26/2008 11:09 AM |
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| Dear Ellen: be very carefull Florida has weird laws concerning HOAs and Condos. They are treated totally different. Different Laws example Condos come under Chap 719 and HOAs fall under the purview of Chap 720. The rules and regs do nt work for both. Thats issue number 1. Now issue number 2 this goes on eevry year in our HOA and has for the best part of the 21 years I have had the privledge of serving on . What I have found is this. Call a recess at the BOD meeting and have a one on one discussion with one of the parties opposed to your way of doing business ansd see if you can convince one of them to go the way your folks lean. In return you lean there way on a individual issue. Its called striking a compromise. It does work. As for the rest of the no show that wants to be on the board too look around. Forget them. usually what happens is the people who refuse to comprimise quit or get angry when they dont have there way and quit anyway. There should be a ccr rule that says 3 missed meetings and your off the board. Study your ccrs and become a as we used to say in the airlines a Philidelphia Lawyer...........Your answer will be found in the ccrs...............IMHO |
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:2948
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| 07/26/2008 11:29 AM |
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John,
I'll give you the benefit of a typo on this but Condo Statutes are 718, not what you typed (719). I am not a typist and typo error all of the time but the correct number is important. It is 718 |
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GlenL
(Ohio)
Posts:1466
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| 07/26/2008 3:27 PM |
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If you don't want to flip a coin as Roger suggested you could test them. This is from a test one community uses to screen the normal applicants from to odd ones:
A visitor to the Happy Acres Homeowners Association asked how members get elected to the board of directors. The chair of the nominating committee answered that the committee had developed a fool-proof method for screening out abnormal owners from normal ones.
The committee fills a bathtub and then offers the owner a teacup and a bucket and asks the potential director to empty the bathtub.
"Oh, I understand," said the visitor. "A normal person would use the bucket because it's bigger than the teacup.
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DwightT
(Idaho)
Posts:483
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| 07/26/2008 5:19 PM |
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I would just open the drain in the tub.
Do I pass??
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EllenS1
(Florida)
Posts:400
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| 07/27/2008 8:39 AM |
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John,
Our docs provide automatical removal if a board member misses 3 consecutive meetings. I am thinking of voting for the person who has never done anything believing he will either resign in short order or miss 3 meetings. My problem is I urged the "doer" to volunteer for the board because she certainly has been active and is concerned about the association. |
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JohnM3
(Florida)
Posts:208
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| 07/27/2008 9:23 AM |
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| Sorry Donna I may have been wrong. But then again I have nothing to do with Condo's HOA's are a big enough headache for me. Especially with 3 idiots in the State Legislature who have an axe to grind about HOAs and insist on throwing us under the bus when none of the fools I met at the College in Pembroke Pines hearing on the last bunch of stupidity came thru . All they wanted was horror stories and they got a mt of them on 1 HOA 1 out of 500 in the south florida region. They kept getting up and going to get something to eat thru out the entire hearing. Phoneys in my book Class A fools......... |
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AnnaD2
(Florida)
Posts:386
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| 07/27/2008 9:23 AM |
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| I wouldn't do that Ellen. "flip-flopping" isn't getting high marks for credibility these days. Stick with what you know is right. |
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EllenS1
(Florida)
Posts:400
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| 07/27/2008 1:30 PM |
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Anna,
I changed my mind. I just called the fellow who says he wants to be on the board and asked him to attend a short meeting at our park on Tuesday evening. His reply "that sounds like a good place to meet"..I'll be there but if I forget just come get me. I just laughed and told him when you are on the board you have to do the work. Heaven help us all! |
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AnnaD2
(Florida)
Posts:386
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| 07/27/2008 3:40 PM |
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Ellen, you may want to put in writing all the "non qualifications" for this person. Include EVERYTHING that has proven he's really not interested in being on the Board. When you have your special meeting to appoint a new board member I'd not be afraid to speak and outline everything you've told us here about this person.
If you ARE able to meet with this person (even if you have to drag him out of his house) I suggest you explain to him that the association also has ANOTHER person who is involved with association business, volunteers, and WANTS to be on the board---of their own free will. You may ask him if he would consider removing his name from the "list" of interested candidates, yet at the same time suggest he "officially" run for the board at the next annual election.
I have a strong feeling his reply may be: "O.K....whatever." |
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