LaurieA
(Tennessee)
Posts:13
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| 07/18/2008 12:14 PM |
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| I'm a member in a 44 unit Tennessee condo assn. Our board has scheduled open meetings once a month for members, but constantly has closed meetings where policy and decisions affecting all members are made. These are alluded to in open meetings but never explained. Is this legal under TN law? I've read the law and can't find any mention one way or the other. Laurie |
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:2948
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| 07/18/2008 12:24 PM |
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Laurie,
Tennessee is NOT user friendly when it comes to HOAs and it's members. Developers have lots of laws but the individual owners are basically up the Tn. river without a paddle.
Do you have a set of documents from the Developer? In there he should have how meetings are to be conducted but if the Board choses not to follow them, the enforcement is nill here. I am looking into starting a lobbying group to force the legislature to get something going for us in protection and enforcement areas. There are condo, mobile home and time share guidelines but they aren't worth much either. |
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BrianB
(California)
Posts:1748
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| 07/18/2008 2:57 PM |
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in general, closed sessions of a governing board meeting of a business are limited to discussions about pending legal issues, personnel discipline issues, personnel salary, or other issues that typically require a legal privacy be invoked (personal medical items, etc), and discussions with a lawyer that involve privilege.
as donna pointed out, there may not be much teeth in tennessee to fight the problem, as there may be no laws on the books to force the issue.
in general, too many boards have no clue what should be held in closed session and what shouldn't and usually error on the "close too often" side. |
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MaryA1
(Arizona)
Posts:2498
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| 07/18/2008 4:17 PM |
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Posted By LaurieA on 07/18/2008 12:14 PM
I'm a member in a 44 unit Tennessee condo assn. Our board has scheduled open meetings once a month for members, but constantly has closed meetings where policy and decisions affecting all members are made. These are alluded to in open meetings but never explained. Is this legal under TN law? I've read the law and can't find any mention one way or the other. Laurie
Laurie,
Donna recently moved to TN and I'm not surprised she has already researched the TN laws which appear to be next to none! In that case, the board can pretty much do as they wish. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that your bylaws or CCRs do not address what type issues can be discussed in a closed (executive) session. Generally the gov docs (mostly the bylaws) are silent on this. My bylaws only address regular and special meetings and actions taken w/o a meeting.
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:2948
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| 07/18/2008 5:24 PM |
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Mary,
That is probably the case in most Tn docs. Mine are done by a developer with many projects that have been successful and completed. Ours are called "Charters" and call only for an annual meeting with options for special meetings. Does not state if they are open or closed. (Whew, have I got work to do up here) |
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MaryA1
(Arizona)
Posts:2498
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| 07/18/2008 7:07 PM |
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Donna,
That's why some states have seen the need to enact an HOA open meeting law (sunshine law if you're in FL). If you really get energized, let me know and I'll send you AZ's open meeting law together with my bill amending it. I think I'm going to have it run again next session. |
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CharlieS
(Tennessee)
Posts:21
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| 07/18/2008 7:50 PM |
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I have a question for Donna, where do you go to research Tennessee's HOA laws?
Charlie |
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GlenL
(Ohio)
Posts:1466
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| 07/18/2008 9:36 PM |
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Posted By CharlieS on 07/18/2008 7:50 PM
I have a question for Donna, where do you go to research Tennessee's HOA laws?
Charlie
Charlie you can try here: http://www.communityassociations.net/legal_state_laws.html and scroll down to Tennessee. As you can see there are currently no HOA laws just statutes for Condos and timeshares. |
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LaurieA
(Tennessee)
Posts:13
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| 07/26/2008 12:08 PM |
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| Thanks for all the responses, just as I thought, nowhere to turn. Another great place to find all TN law is www.michie.com. Click on Tennessee, then scroll down to Horizontal Property, that's where you'll find everything, not much to find. |
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SusanW1
(Michigan)
Posts:2316
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| 07/26/2008 12:24 PM |
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So, Lauried, it looks like the Board meetings are for Board member business only and are "closed" in that regard.
You CAN request the minutes from those meetings, however.
Their concept of "open meeting" may just be for the general membership to observe, but not participate in. (vote or speak on issues besided an agenda section, perhaps called "Member Communication")
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RobertB20
(Florida)
Posts:25
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| 08/12/2008 7:13 PM |
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I reside in Florida, our Board just posted a cancellation for our Condo meeting. Our homes are HOA and our clubhouse is owned half the building by the Golf Owners and the other half by us and is a CONDO. The Golf owner has one(1) vote and our President and Vice-President have a vote.
My questions are in Florida if there is a Condo Meeting must it be posted to all owners?? are all Condo owners allowed to attend the meeting??? Should an agenda be posted and a sign up to talk for (3) minutes under florida law and finally must minutes be taken and posted to the community of what was discussed and voted on and approved and disapproved??? Thank You |
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GlenL
(Ohio)
Posts:1466
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| 08/12/2008 11:36 PM |
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Robert you can go here to read all the Florida Condo Statutes: http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0718/titl0718.htm
I believe this under Section 718.112 answers your questions:
(c) Board of administration meetings.--Meetings of the board of administration at which a quorum of the members is present shall be open to all unit owners. Any unit owner may tape record or videotape meetings of the board of administration. The right to attend such meetings includes the right to speak at such meetings with reference to all designated agenda items. The division shall adopt reasonable rules governing the tape recording and videotaping of the meeting. The association may adopt written reasonable rules governing the frequency, duration, and manner of unit owner statements. Adequate notice of all meetings, which notice shall specifically incorporate an identification of agenda items, shall be posted conspicuously on the condominium property at least 48 continuous hours preceding the meeting except in an emergency. If 20 percent of the voting interests petition the board to address an item of business, the board shall at its next regular board meeting or at a special meeting of the board, but not later than 60 days after the receipt of the petition, place the item on the agenda. Any item not included on the notice may be taken up on an emergency basis by at least a majority plus one of the members of the board. Such emergency action shall be noticed and ratified at the next regular meeting of the board. However, written notice of any meeting at which nonemergency special assessments, or at which amendment to rules regarding unit use, will be considered shall be mailed, delivered, or electronically transmitted to the unit owners and posted conspicuously on the condominium property not less than 14 days prior to the meeting. Evidence of compliance with this 14-day notice shall be made by an affidavit executed by the person providing the notice and filed among the official records of the association. Upon notice to the unit owners, the board shall by duly adopted rule designate a specific location on the condominium property or association property upon which all notices of board meetings shall be posted. If there is no condominium property or association property upon which notices can be posted, notices of board meetings shall be mailed, delivered, or electronically transmitted at least 14 days before the meeting to the owner of each unit. In lieu of or in addition to the physical posting of notice of any meeting of the board of administration on the condominium property, the association may, by reasonable rule, adopt a procedure for conspicuously posting and repeatedly broadcasting the notice and the agenda on a closed-circuit cable television system serving the condominium association. However, if broadcast notice is used in lieu of a notice posted physically on the condominium property, the notice and agenda must be broadcast at least four times every broadcast hour of each day that a posted notice is otherwise required under this section. When broadcast notice is provided, the notice and agenda must be broadcast in a manner and for a sufficient continuous length of time so as to allow an average reader to observe the notice and read and comprehend the entire content of the notice and the agenda. Notice of any meeting in which regular or special assessments against unit owners are to be considered for any reason shall specifically state that assessments will be considered and the nature, estimated cost, and description of the purposes for such assessments. Meetings of a committee to take final action on behalf of the board or make recommendations to the board regarding the association budget are subject to the provisions of this paragraph. Meetings of a committee that does not take final action on behalf of the board or make recommendations to the board regarding the association budget are subject to the provisions of this section, unless those meetings are exempted from this section by the bylaws of the association. Notwithstanding any other law, the requirement that board meetings and committee meetings be open to the unit owners is inapplicable to meetings between the board or a committee and the association's attorney, with respect to proposed or pending litigation, when the meeting is held for the purpose of seeking or rendering legal advice.
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SusanW1
(Michigan)
Posts:2316
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| 08/13/2008 6:12 AM |
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Robert - you said: "I reside in Florida, our Board just posted a cancellation for our Condo meeting"
What do you mean by the word "our"? - are you referring to the Annual Meeting of the Members? or a regular Board meeting?
What reason for canceling the meeting? did they re-schedule?
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RobertB20
(Florida)
Posts:25
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| 08/13/2008 9:35 AM |
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Susan
Our Board cancelled the meeting for what reson I have no idea, it was never posted with an Agenda and the right to attend , now i'm being told the Condo Docs state the building falls under a corporation even though we own half the building so our President and Vice President have a vote apiece and the Golf Owners have a vote we as condo owners DO NOT, very confusing |
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MaryA1
(Arizona)
Posts:2498
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| 08/13/2008 2:36 PM |
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Posted By RobertB20 on 08/13/2008 9:35 AM
Susan
Our Board cancelled the meeting for what reson I have no idea, it was never posted with an Agenda and the right to attend , now i'm being told the Condo Docs state the building falls under a corporation even though we own half the building so our President and Vice President have a vote apiece and the Golf Owners have a vote we as condo owners DO NOT, very confusing
Robert,
Again, what meeting was cancelled -- a member's meeting or a board meeting?
Most HOA are nonprofit corps but that doesn't mean the members do not have the right to vote. Are the Pres and V.P. considered delegates for the owners and only they have a vote? Is there a master assn that your condo belongs to together with the Golf Owners? |
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RobertB20
(Florida)
Posts:25
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| 08/13/2008 5:55 PM |
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Mary,
Yes the homeowners don't have a vote just the President and Vice-president two (2) votes for the HOA and one (1) vote by the Golf Course Owner for the golf course.
It was a Board Meeting and our Condo by -laws state the meeting must be posted (Noticed) to the community for 14 days, homeowners are allowed to attend all the meetings, minutes must be taken and held for 7 years by the State of Florida and an Agenda posted prior to the meeting so homeowners can have the right to sopeak on the agenda for three (3) minutes - Thank You for your response |
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MaryA1
(Arizona)
Posts:2498
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| 08/13/2008 10:04 PM |
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Robert,
Not being familiar with FL state laws, I don't know if members must be noticed for board meetings, or if they are permitted to speak. However, members do NOT have a vote at board meetings. Since the meeting was cancelled, I don't understand what your problem is. Perhaps you can be more specific. Thanks! |
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RobertB20
(Florida)
Posts:25
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| 08/14/2008 8:33 AM |
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hello Mary,
My problem is in our condo by-laws it states the same as an HOA the meeting's of the Condo and Hoa MUST be posted for 14 days, it was not and then I was informed by the HOA President it does have to be which he is wrong Fl Statue 718.112(2)(c) clearly states under MEETINGS what I have stated above. Also the meetings are not to be closed, with an agenda and minutes taken and the right to speak of home owners.
They posted the cancellation of the meeting but never posted there was going to be a meeting in the first place?? What are my options now , DBPR with a written complaint and rbitration/mediation so it desn't happen again??? thank you for your reply - Robert |
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MaryA1
(Arizona)
Posts:2498
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| 08/14/2008 8:03 PM |
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Posted By RobertB20 on 08/14/2008 8:33 AM
hello Mary,
My problem is in our condo by-laws it states the same as an HOA the meeting's of the Condo and Hoa MUST be posted for 14 days, it was not and then I was informed by the HOA President it does have to be which he is wrong Fl Statue 718.112(2)(c) clearly states under MEETINGS what I have stated above. Also the meetings are not to be closed, with an agenda and minutes taken and the right to speak of home owners.
They posted the cancellation of the meeting but never posted there was going to be a meeting in the first place?? What are my options now , DBPR with a written complaint and rbitration/mediation so it desn't happen again??? thank you for your reply - Robert
I would not advise filing a complaint at this time, simply because the meeting was cancelled. However I definitely would inform the Board Pres that state law dictates that all meetings be noticed. Give him a copy of the statute so he can read it for himself. After doing this, if he still insists on NOT posting a notice then you can consider filing a complaint with the DBPR or whatever the dispute resolution process is.
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RobertB20
(Florida)
Posts:25
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| 08/15/2008 9:40 AM |
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Mary,
Thank you for your response.I have done exactly as you have suggested. I attached the section for Condo meetings under 718.112(2)(c) stating all the guidelines under Fl state statue "CONDO MEETINGS".I am now waiting to see him or receive a reply. I also sent to a copy to other Board members so they are aware of the situation, I understand they were not informed of the meeting at all. I will pursue this with the DBPR in Ft Lauderdale and if need be will go to mediation or Arbitration. Thank you again - Robert |
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MaryA1
(Arizona)
Posts:2498
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| 08/16/2008 2:43 PM |
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| My pleasure, Robert! Please let us know what happens. Hope you don't have to go the route of a formal complaint with the DPBR. |
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MindyD
(Arizona)
Posts:25
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| 08/26/2008 9:58 AM |
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| To MaryA1 in Arizona......I am very interested in the open meeting information you have, can you send it to me????? mkitty2.1@netzero.net Thanks |
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