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JudyC6
(Hawaii)

Posts:4

07/10/2008 11:32 PM
We have anewly-elected board as of March of this yar. We decided as a board that we would start enforcing what previous boards have not - our association's fireworks ban. Did we have homeowners who violated the community rules? Oh, yeah. I recommended a hefty fine to stop it once and for all, but the majority of the board is against it. I am a bit stunned at their lack of cojones and lack of enforcement of the association's documents. What do we do to have any credibility as a board when this goes on? Judy

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1195

07/11/2008 1:06 AM
Are fireworks legal to use in Hawaii or can you call the police/fire department and let them do your enforcing for you? In Ohio for instance you can buy them but it's against the law to use them and the police will cite you if you're caught.

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2282

07/11/2008 11:35 AM
Glen, It's the same in the County that I am in in Tennessee. You can cross the border into Georgia and buy them but you cannot light them in Hamilton County. I live in a wildlife area and I am sure that all critters large and small are pleased to have the quiet from the ban on fireworks. Then look at California right now. Holy Cow!!! Almost the whole State is on fire and people all over this country just don't get the concept of fire danger from the drought conditions (Except poor Iowa, Illinois and Missori. They could use some drying out) Let the professionals do the light shows. If I had my way, that's the only way that it would be. So do check with your local enforcement to see if they will or can enforce the firing off of the junk.

BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:1742

07/11/2008 11:47 AM
Hopefully your law enforcement is better than ours...we have restrictive hours and days you can set them off and you can't set them off in streets. Yet here we were a week before the 4th having them go off, having them go off well after curfew and on the 4th you couldn't drive on the street going by my house unless you wanted your car blown up....Call the police and they talk about how overwhelmed they are will calls all around the city...ok..why have ordinances then? I think if your documents have a ban then the board needs to uphold it. If the board doesn't want to then they need to go through the motions of getting the documents changed. If some goofball lit someone's house on fire it could get back that the HOA didn't enforce the ban and where there are deep pockets lawsuits will follow.

SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:51

07/11/2008 11:59 AM
We announced in our newsletter that fireworks weren't allowed and our security office was going to make some extra patrols to stop people. We do this every year - but every year, the results are mixed. Not that our officer doesn't do the job, but when he's going after people on one end, the folks on another end are shooting off the things. This year, the "fun" started on July 2 and I guess the kids (and some adults) finally ran out last Sunday (on July 4, it sounded like a firefight in Iraq that you'd see on CNN). I even had to stop one family blowing stuff up on our playground, which is near my home (Dad says "we're leaving, we're leaving, we just have one more") As we've said over and over to our residents, how can you expect kids to behave when the adults are just as bad - and worse in some cases?

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1581

07/11/2008 1:25 PM
next year, remind everyone of the ban, and simply state that anyone found violating the ban will be fined X amount. Your security guy doesn't have to STOP the offenders, just get their names/ID's, or even just a photo. That should speed up his response. And, those guys who have "just one more" can shoot all they want, they already broke the policy, and the fine will be assessed, period. Just make sure the fine is worth more than the crime: I for one would pay $50 to have a place to shoot. $500, that's another story.

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1195

07/11/2008 4:49 PM
Donna it's even nuttier here I can buy them here in my county but it is against the law to use them so you have to sign a form saying you will take them out of state to use them. I can remember as a kid shooting off bottle rockets and firecrackers but nowadays you can purchase stuff that is almost commercial grade explosives. Then you add alcohol to the mix and you get the "Hey watch this." factor and people trying to one up their neighbors. Someone emailed me a video today of some idiot who let his "friend" put the stick of a large rocket in his butt cheeks and light it, the burns it caused were quite impressive. In fact fireworks are believed to be the cause of an apartment fire that displaced 200 people on July 6th in Toledo, OH. Now I'm not anti-fireworks, one of the world's premier maker's of commercial fireworks is located just a few miles from here and I know the owners. But even with all of the safety precautions they have in place they have lost buildings and lives it only takes a second.

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1195

07/11/2008 4:50 PM
Brad I also think the HOA should enforce the covenant or change it but if you can get the city/county to do the work for you it's all to the better. I like Brian's approach.

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:1887

07/11/2008 5:44 PM
Judy, Your problem is repeated year after year, and so is the comittment by the Boards to stop it. I would bet, with a short little agreement between the Board and proper authorities a solution could be worked out. I may take the aid of a commercial security orgainaztion and the help of local police and hefty fine to pay for protection you deserve, but is should be done. There seems to be a lack of understanding if you are living in nearly anything but a bomb shelter, these things can burn a building down and you in it. If you don't have the people on the ground with enforcing powers you should. A 15 minute wait with rockets zooming over your wooden roof can be a long time. This year was pretty good around here but there were plenty of folks keeping watch.

JudyC6
(Hawaii)

Posts:4

07/11/2008 5:55 PM
Fireworks are legal with a permit and only during certain hours and on the 4th and New Year's Eve and Day. But the association documents state they are forbidden within the confines of the development. Local law enforcement state they do not have the manpower to enforce fireworks and that if it is on association property and the rule is the association's, it is an association issue. Judy

EllenS1
(Florida)

Posts:317

07/11/2008 8:54 PM
Judy, Your best solution may be to have the association purchase some hoses and douse the fireworks as soon as they see them on community property. Or better yet some fire extinguishers.

LindaC3
(Florida)

Posts:525

07/12/2008 9:55 AM
Our HOA enacted a no fireworks ban back a few months ago due to the critical dryness here in Florida...We are a heavily wooded subdivision and the chance of fires is high...And of course we had to have the ONE ANAL RETENTIVE HO that felt they were above the rule...They were brought before the management committee and fined $100.00 and put on notice...The next weekend they decided to bring underage kids up to our pool and area and trashed the place with beer bottles etc.....HOWEVER they were caught by our on premise off duty sheriff deputy and once again brought up before the committee....... Fined another $100.00 These types of people seem to have no concept of the RULES....They have been nothing but trouble makers since the day they moved in here.....An now they feel the BOD is "picking " on them and asking folks here for support......YEA RIGHT !!!! When they approached a friend of mine out here for some help he " politely" told them where they could go...... If you don't like RULES that were put in place to PROTECT all of us from the possibility of losing all of what we worked so hard to achieve I'd suggest they move.....A lawyer here also pulled them aside and explained to them that any damages they create as a result of violating a rule COULD result in an action being brought against them in the courts.... These folks actually laughed at him and told him he was full of it......Looks like it's going to be a long hot summer here with the folks......LindaC3

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:1887

07/12/2008 10:48 AM
Hey Linda, Feel better? It always helps me . But by now you are probably face to face with another devil put on this earth to give you and I grief. And July not over, and you can't start counting down until 1st of August is enough to give anyone the Blahs. I just wish you could have gotten $600 fines.each instance. Hell for as hard as it is to get some of these rules passed and the time involved, not to mention grief, $600 looks cheap. I tell you the truth, if someone would offer to pay me for trying to get one of the association back on track I wouldn't even hang around long enough to answer. If all this is not a labor of love, I don't know what is. Keep up the good work, just when you think tomorrow will be better, it isn't.

JudyC6
(Hawaii)

Posts:4

07/12/2008 4:44 PM
I'm with you Linda - it is just so frustrating to live around idiots. These people bought homes and signed the paperwork that stated in effect "I understand I am buying into a homeowner's association with documents governing standards of conduct and appearance of property. I agree to abide by these documents." Then when you attempt to point out to them their violation of a rule, you get an "in your face", "get off my property", "I can do what I want" attitude - I hate to say it, but sometimes I wish I could live in an area where the association could decide who could and could not live there. Don't abide by the rules of the community? Ba-bye!

BryanG1
(Florida)

Posts:12

07/14/2008 12:45 PM
Not sure what the laws are regarding fireworks in your area nor am I familiar with how far an HOA can go when it comes to fining in your area either. Check your State's HOA laws in regards to what you can fine your community members for. Otherwise, look for a possible lawsuit from whoever you try to levy a fine on. If fireworks are against the law in your area/state, don't be the police, call the police. Here in Florida we cannot fine community members for lighting off fireworks. It is technically against the law for anyone to shoot off fireworks within the State of Florida, but because of a "loophole" in the fireworks law, there's a lot of fireworks going off on the 4th of July anyway. We could contact the local police, but with as many fireworks that are going off on the 4th, I am sure it's something that would be of very low priority on their call list. What we did is contacted a professional fireworks company that did a "consumer" fireworks show for us (lower cost show). The cost was about $1,000, most of which was raised by donations within the community. We had a nice 20 minute show and, although it didn't cut down on the fireworks use completely, it did cut down on it quite a bit. No matter what you do, there's ALWAYS going to be someone shooting off fireworks. You can fine them, have them ticketed, and sometimes even arrested (although I've never seen this happen around the 4th), and they are STILL going to shoot off fireworks next time. All you can do at that point is learn to live with it.

JudyC6
(Hawaii)

Posts:4

07/14/2008 8:40 PM
Wow Bryan, I must say I am surprised that there is a law against fireworks, yet your association went ahead and "broke" the law? Are there any other laws of your association you allow to be broken? How does your board have any credibility at all in enforcement when you break state laws? Hawaii has laws on when and where you can fire off fireworks, however, the HOA's can have stricter rules when the issue is a hazard and fireworks are listed as such in our association documents. We can fine our HOA members for violation of our association documents and since this discussion started, seems our board has grown some cojones and those who were against the fines decided to read the documents again, and impose an immediate fine when a homeowner or tenant is observed lighting fireworks. WAY TO GO! Thanks for all of the great information and suggestions. Judy

DwightT
(Idaho)

Posts:337

07/15/2008 7:35 AM
Judy - most of the fireworks laws that I have seen allow for shows by licensed and certified professionals such as Bryan is talking about. They would have to get a permit from the city or other regulatory authority, and typically are bonded to cover any damages. As you are aware, it's the inexperienced incompetent individuals who create the problems with fireworks. They will scream bloody murder at the mention of restricting their "right" to shoot off explosives in the middle of drought-dry timber, and then scream again at the thought that they should be held responsible for the damage that they cause. I'm one of those who are stuck with ridiculous laws. The state has a law against shooting off air-borne fireworks (again with the exception of licensed pros), but it is legal to buy the things if you sign a document stating that you won't shoot them off here.

KirkW1
(Texas)

Posts:600

07/15/2008 9:09 AM
... you are aware, it's the inexperienced incompetent individuals who create the problems with fireworks. ... I don't think it can be chalked up to inexperience. The reason your state has laws against airborne fireworks is people shooting them at each other. For some odd reason some people think the idea of a battle using bottle rockets is a good idea. Same thing for "Roman candles". I have even heard of people firing off the rockets at each other. That is the worst case. Other people thing perhaps this would look cool if I changed the angle at which it is fired. For some reason fireworks causes a fuse to go off in many people's head. Some otherwise intelligent people will suddenly do incredibly stupid things. It never occurs to them that: 1) This is dealing with fire 2) This is dealing with an explosive 3) The projectiles are moving at a very high rate of speed.

DwightT
(Idaho)

Posts:337

07/15/2008 9:36 AM
I used "inexperienced" because I was going for an alliteration. There are a few other terms that I could think of, but I should keep it semi-polite on this list. I would add at least a fourth bullet to your list of things that don't occur to them: 4) The property and/or health of somebody else may be involved. Being from Texas, you are probably familiar with Jeff Foxworthy's Last Words of a Redneck: "Hey yall, watch this"

DwightT
(Idaho)

Posts:337

07/15/2008 9:37 AM
I used "inexperienced" because I was going for an alliteration. There are a few other terms that I could think of, but I should keep it semi-polite on this list. I would add at least a fourth bullet to your list of things that don't occur to them: 4) The property and/or health of somebody else may be involved. Being from Texas, you are probably familiar with Jeff Foxworthy's Last Words of a Redneck: "Hey yall, watch this"

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