BOD Have the Right to Implement New Pet Rules Without Homeowner Vote?

Douglas pay the fee first, they can refund it to you if the BOD is in the wrong but you don't want to rack up hefty fines if they're in the right.

I believe CA made it illegal to ban pets and there are strict procedures in the Davis Stirling law to handle rule changes and fees including notification. If they followed all of them then it possibly is a valid rule and fee. You can research it by visiting http://www.davis-stirling.com/index.html and check "Main Index" for Pets, Rules and Fees. You can then ask the BOD for proof that they followed all the requirements of the law.

that's a good, solid defendable start. pay the fee, lodge your protest, and explain why you are protesting, what the board did wrong, etc. I would also request, in the same letter, an answer to the "charge" in 30 days. you may not get it, but it does put some burden on the board to explain themselves. should they ignore it, that adds to your case, should you ever go to court.

also, the president should NOT get a free space that everyone else pays for. that smacks very close of a pay for performance role, and that is almost always illegal in HOA's.

if it isn't a compensation or perk, what is it? If it isn't a perk, then i would say the president should have NO problem giving it to some other homeowner, right? after all, the attorney just said, in writing, that it had no value or benefit, so why would the president care if it went to someone else?

Same here, same all over. I, too quit.
Jane

Regarding extra parking spaces. Are the spaces given common property? CA law required that any common property given away or given for exclusive use is to be voted on by the members in accordance with CA CC 1363.03. Just like an election for directors or a special assessment. I don’t believe not-for-profit corps can charge a fee for a parking space or cats. You can probably fight this in small claims court. But the above advice is good, pay first, then fight.

Check Beth Grimm’s site (an HOATalk sponsor, home page) and the
Center for California Homeowner Association Law, http://www.cahomelaw.org/
for information on going to small claims. You can also email questions to CCAL.

If you don't already know, the 30 day review law is CC 1357.100 etc.

Yep, that parking space is a perk, and not allowed.
Jane

Kathlee,
Check your docs. Ours state that any pet that causes a nuisance must be removed. I disagree, however, that big dogs bark a lot. I had a 74 pund dog for almost 15 years and he very seldom barked while I listened to several little dogs yapping constantly.

Glen and Kathleen,
To summurise I think we can agree Kathleen having a dog has nothing to do with a owner not conforming to legal restriction. Kathleen is not charged with enforcement, the Board is. And if she goes to every annual meeting from now until she proves her point, she should do it. Go to the Board meeting, present your concern in writing, in you letter ask for a prompt response to your concern and request it be made part of the Minutes of the meetings. Go to next Board meeting and with each new letter, remind the board that this is your tenth or whatever call for corrective action under the binding clause in your documents. I would include the name of each Board member in each letter and at some point either you give up and sue them with your evidence or the Board gives up and solves their problem. Don't fight about it, argue or try to compromise, it is what it is, let it go at that.

If I felt strong enough, I would do that and I bet you receive some satisfaction. Also, each month encourage the Board to explain their actions or non actions to you in writing, do that each time also.

After you get tired and before hiring an attorney, try legal aid or all kinds of County offices, city offices, and see what they have to say.

Brian,

I'd suggest the following formula:

DL divided by PDW plus MY/H equals AL.

Or, to put it another way:

Decibel Level divided by Pounds of Dog Weight plus Minutes yapping per Hour equals Annoyance Level.

An AL greater than 20 = BAD.

An AL less than 20 = GOOD.

Case #1:

10lb Poodle at 120 decibels for 30 mins = 42

Case #2:

80lb German Shep at 100 decibels for 10 mins = 11.25

Just saying.

Robert - thank you for your comments. My self and several others have small dogs but 3-4 have dogs that are obviously bigger than 25lbs - including a Board Member. I like your advice and will try it.

The point of my admitedly ridiculous formula is that the bottom-line of any weight/breed restriction is just plain dumb. A close second is defining what constitutes a dog barking nuisance. But as Justice...Justice...was it Powell?...stated in yet another dishy attempt to define pornography - "I know it when I see it."

Case by case decisions can be a nasty can of worms to open, but I think they are the only viable solution in this realm of Board enforcment.

Glen,

How is "excessive" defined in these CCRs?

If no definition, we're back to subjective judgment calls, eh?

We have one Great Dane (Sasha, a female, about 125 lbs.) in our neighborhood. Owners have one of those electric fences. When I have our randomly bred animal companion - a 75 lb. Shep/Aus Cattle dog, Taxi - out for his morning walk, and Sasha is in the yard, Sasha will bark a couple times then lay (lie?) down, envious of seeing another dog being walked, which Sasha never is.

Sometimes, we also encounter Boopsie, a 12 lb. "designer" runt, who does occassionally get strolled, that howls as if she's having her tail cut off with a pair of dull scissors, and continues to do so long after we've passed. Shrieks incessently might be a better verb/adverb combo.

I vote Sasha.

Holy cow JohnK, Now we are going to start sanctioning Talen or no talent shows for our pets to allow them to gain admission as members of the immediate family, hence, considered owners.

Now, my 10 year old orange tabby doesn't consider this an issue. She is perfect, she refuses to enter into the fray. She alone will decide who goes and stays in my house. Got a problem with that? Let me get the door for you.

I moved into a small condo which did not allow dogs but the seller got them to allow him. I'm sure they thought this old lady would have a little, tiny pet. Instead I moved in with a 70 plus pound lab mix. Everyone ended up loving him. Every time I had him out on the proprty one owner (80 plus years) sitting on his balcony would remark "he's a good dog isn't he?..he never barks." Judge the behavior and not the size.

Hey folks - I am not disputing that a small dog can bark and be a bigger nuissance than a big dog - but our condo does have a 1 dog up to 25 lb. weight limit. It is not just a rule but in the declarations and bylaws which makes it - in my opinion a deed restriction. It causes a problem because people who obey the declaration retriction ask - how come they can have a big dog or more than 1 dog and what do you tell a potential buyer?? If the declaration retriction is there - then you have to tell them unless you lie and some have but there is resentment and yes - the people who have the big dogs also do not follow the rules about not tying your dog out so they do and then then bark and bark. Me - who complains is the "bad neighbor" not those who defy the deed restriction and then break the rules about tying their dog outside. Last year I and my dog were attacked by a neighbors dog who came up on my patio after my dog. The Board did nothing!! They had a hearing and wanted to hear both sides of the story -- about a dog that should not have been on the property in the first place. But the bleeding hearts whent to the big dog owner because they didn't want to cause her the pain of getting rid of her dog - never mind that her dog 60+ lb dog had not only attacked my 9 lb dog and the week before - had chased me in our parking lot - the dog was off her leash and she came at me with teeth bare and her hair raised. Her owner just smiled and said "sorry". So I have had it. I want those dogs gone!!! It is not vindictive but we live too close to one another and it is not just a rule - but in our declarations and bylaws which the board is ignoring.

Kathleen I understand your frustration but unfortunately the road ahead is not an easy one, there is no magic fix. I have posted your options under my take of Ohio's condo law; other than suing them your only option is to keep bringing it up as Robert suggested. If you can get your fellow dog owners that are complying with the covenant and non dog owners as well to join you it will be easier. If they still will not enforce the covenant then it is time to vote them out and replace them with members who are willing to enforce them.

The behavior you posted is IMO against the law and you should involve the police and or your local Game Warden / Animal Control Officer to make sure a paper trail of this dog's aggressive behavior and its owners apparent negligence exists.

Thank you everyone for your comments. Especially Glen.

Robert just as you are free to change the channel if there is something on TV that you don't like, there are over 5000 different threads here for your posting pleasure. If you are tired of a particular thread may I suggest that you simply stop reading and / or posting to it.

Robert,
The problem with us old folks is that we remember alot of stuff, sometimes too much. It clutters up all of our mental storage space. I agree with you that we will always kick the "pet issue" to death. It has been a subject since day 1 and I venture to say that it will rear it's ugly head again in a couple of months.

People are passionate about their pets--me my Great Dane and you--your kitty. So it is fun to read some of the light hearted storys about them. But enough is finally enough because we are not getting anywhere with this anymore. So lets just find some sunject that we can really sink our teeth into. I'll look to see if I can start something much more controversial.

John, I think it's unreasonable, but if that's what in your governing documents you may have to comply. In fact I think it's ridiculous to make owners to pay for registering their dogs? What additional expense does association incur if some owner has a dog?

Woah...What is the setup of your HOA? Are you a condo or individual homes? It really depends on your setup on the pet issue. A condo has shared walls, yards, floors, and more common area. Townhomes/individual homes have the ability to fence or take other measures to keep their pets separate from the general population. Although they still have common property.

If it's a condo type set up then I can see the deposit coming into play. Plus 150 is about average. My old apartment complex charged 200 for a pet. Usually, if this is a rental situation it would be the owner asking for this pet deposit. A little unusual for a HOA to request it. However, it can be allowed.

The amount may have changed by the by-laws not the CC&R's. This fee can be changed by the BOD. So you may ask why the difference in the documents and where is it noted? Policy should be written somewhere even if it's in the meeting notes.