help with rule for parking

We only had a problem with one owner who parked a commercial vehicle in his driveway. He worked for a pest control company and this owner remarked that the HOA would never do anything about his parking it here. I called his company and let them know their vehicle was parked in our HOA which was against our covenants. He told me he understood because he too lived in an HOA. You might try that for any commercial vehicles that are not owned by members of your HOA.

Our definition of "commercial vehicle" includes any signage on the vehicle.

Partly because we also have a "signage" restriction so this better aligns the two.

This also means that vehicles that would not NORMALLY be considered "commercial" can simply use magnetic covers on the signage and still be able to park their cars in the driveway.

Not sure if you have both single family homes and townhomes, but here's some ideas from a townhome community. Our problem with large vehicles stems from the fact that our parking spaces are (by industry standard) defined as 'Compact", so if you park two 3/4 trucks or two 3/4 Yukons etc, next to each other, there's only 8 inches between the vehicles. Try this...

6 Tradesmen. Vehicles of companies making repairs, replacements, deliveries, etc., are permitted between 7 a.m. and 9 p.m. Companies needing all-day parking should park in the homeowner’s designated reserved parking space or the driveway. No overnight parking of commercial vehicles is permitted. The term "commercial vehicle" is defined in the Design Guidelines and is further defined in Section 3-C below.

3(d) Commercial Vehicles. Parking of commercial vehicles in the Community is not allowed. Greenfield County defines commercial vehicles as any vehicle with a carrying capacity of 1500 pounds (¾ ton) or more. It matters not what use is intended or the manner in which it is registered—commercial vehicles cannot be parked in open view in the Community. Additionally, any resident vehicle with advertising, regardless of its carrying capacity, is considered a commercial vehicle and cannot be parked in open view in the Community. Advertising is defined to include, but not be limited to, the display of a company logo and/or product name and telephone number and/or email address. Any vehicle with pipe racks or ladder racks, a combination thereof, or any other visible commercial equipment is also considered to be a commercial vehicle.

Our streets were dedicated to the county. Does this still make them the HOA's? Some think you can't restrict county roads. Also what about the "commecial" vehicles with signs for home business things like Creative Memories, Pure Romance or Avon.

Charles,

If the streets were dedicated to the county then they are now county roads, meaning public not private roads. Some people do think you cannot restrict parking on public roadways, but that is not true. There is case law upholding the HOAs right to do so, even on public roadways. The reason being that everyone agreed to the restriction when purchasing their property. It all comes back to the fact that the CCRs are enforceable because we all agreed to them. Even if you did not receive a copy of the CCRs b/4 you purchased your property, just by virtue of signing on the dotted line you have "agreed" to all the provisions contained in them. This is the law (property law) that applies to restricted covenants.

Mary-does that mean if one is parked on public streets and is a visitor of a homeowner or rents a room this would apply to them?
Jose

In our area, property owners are to ensure that their visitors and renters comply with the CC&Rs as well. So if a homeowner has a boyfriend or girlfriend, or even just a pal who comes and hangs out all day, but parks on the street more than 4 hours or overnight, we can (and have) still enforce against the homeowner since he must ensure that his lot is in compliance.

It generally does not rise to the test unless or until the "visitors" are so frequent that it has become a clearly habitual issue.

In which case, the owners are to ensure that those people they welcome into their home do not bring the property out of compliance.

That would apply to owners' teen-age children as well!

(we had a guy claim that since his son wasn't on the deed, he didn't have to comply with parking restrictions. He was wrong!)

The only thing we CANNOT do is enforce against people who park on our streets who are neither visitors of members, or members themselves.

We have a lake (a retention basin, really, but people still use it to "fish" in), and we get people from surrounding neighborhoods "drop by" and just park anywhere and then go to the lake and fish.

We cannot make them not park there (it's a public street). We can, however, make them leave the lake, since it is for the use and enjoyment of our HOA residents ONLY.

But if they decide to leave the lake, but just sit in their car all day, there's not much we can do about it.

The closest thing we can do is call a policeman to enforce the Metro parking restriction that one cannot park within 10 feet of a driveway.

So far we haven't had to actually do that, though.

I personally don't care where people park as long as it is not in MY driveway. We have some families with multiple (like 4) dirvers so the driveway is tricky for them. Commercial vehicles for the most part don't bother me either. I do think it is a little tacky to have a van that reads "Pure Romance" parked in your driveway. What must the kids think??

Before openly stating that an HOA can restrict parking on a public street, it might be wise to indicate where this is the case. What one state allows another bans. Much legal advice is only good for the locality from which it came.

Just because an HOA in AZ can restrict parking on public streets inside its boundaries doesn't mean that will work in another state. You should check what is permissible in your locality. Keep in mind that what the HOA can (and can't) do can be limited by all of the following:
1) State government
2) County government
3) City government

This is also why CC&Rs don't generally have clauses that state something akin to, "is restricted. . . unless you get your neighbors to say they don't mind."

The problem is generally not with a singular commercial vehicle, it's with the idea that if you can allow ONE commercial vehicle, then you can allow all others.

In other words, a commercial van with a discreet branding on its side is not necessarily an "eyesore." But if you then have 5 or 10 or more in the same street, and of all varying sizes and sorts, including one that is, say, lime green with huge purple lettering that states something like "Love Shack Commodities," and another that's pink and orange that is promoting liposuction, regardless of the text or image (shudder), then how can you allow the discreet one and not the 4 to 9 others that are tacky and an eyesore, all taken together?

Therefore, the restriction would most likely simply state, "no commercial vehicles."

I, personally, don't have a problem with boats. In fact, we own a pontoon with other family members. We can't keep in here because boats aren't allowed on our lots unless stored in the garage (or basement, which I never really understood since we have no walkouts here!).

But if my neighbor has a slick little speed or ski boat, why should he have to keep it offsite?

I don't mind looking at it, except when I'm feeling particularly envious.

But for every one or two decent or not-so-bad boat, trailer, camper, commercial vehicle, then you have a slew of others that are not so pleasant on the eye.

It's what I call the "shotgun" approach to enforcement, as opposed to the targeted, single-bullet approach.

I did find a couple of postings from someone that has to be in our tract of homes. I did learn some things on the postings that I have not heard before so that I think there may be a communication problem. If Bob is out there I would encourage you to come to talk to the board before this gets any worse. Some board members are really willing to listen. I am sure if you read my post you will realize who I am, the only other guy. Bob, you are correct in California a pickup truck is a commerical vehicle. I did contact my city and was told that I need to contact the Highway Patrol to get a clear answer. this is what I learned for all you California people. A pickup is designed to carry a load therefore is considered a commercial vehicle as are many SUV's that can have a "bed". With that being said I also found out that if you do not want your truck to be commercial anymore you can put a shell cover on it and go to the DMV and they will re-register it and save you a few bucks in the process, but until that is done they are according to the law, commercial. I wonder if there have been other challenges in CID's that have had the commercial/pickup problem and if so how was it settled.

It looks like the rules need to say something like no vehicles that have signage, or tool boxes,or gas tanks in the bed, ect. I just hope in the process of our new rules we do not make anyone feel like they are being picked on, like some do feel in our tract with the changes. I think the key is we fork out the money to pay the managements attorney and not attempt this ourselves.

Jose,

Since CA has the ridiculous law that all p/u's are commercial vehicles, IMO, to be fair, the assn needs to determine which p/u's are "true" commercial vehicles. Those would be the ones that should be subject to your CCR restriction. A p/u with a co. logo, as you state above, is definitely a commercial vehicle and would be subject to the CCR restriction.

Mary, I agree. I was just making an observation about it (shotgun approach) and hadn't meant to editorialize as to whether it is the right or wrong way to go.

Sometimes simpler is just better. Sometimes not.

Another of my favorite two-word replies to almost any question in the universe:

It depends.

Jose, in answer to your question re: regular or small pickup truck with the small, discreet logo, as long as the logo is showing, our board considers it "commercial." (we don't have the rule in KY that pickups are considered "commercial.")

We have a guy right now who is an electrician.

He drives a white pickup truck with the two words XXX Electric on the side of the doors, very small.

But when he parks in his driveway, he covers the logo with a blank white magnetic strip.

Instant non-commercial.

It occurs to me reading hte rule, that it needs some work anyway. Consider this:

COMMERCIAL VEHICLE RESTRICTIONS
No commercial vehicle which is owned by a resident shall be parked in the residents driveway or on the street. Such resident-owned commercial vehicles must be parked behind the fence or in the garage of the resident.

Case 1

Any commercial vehicle which is non-resident owned and is present in the project for purposes of delivery of goods or services shall not park in the project for any more than a nine hour period and under no circunstances be parked in the project overnight.

Case 2

And any commercial vehicle that is non-resident owned and present in the project because the owner allows an employee to drive home is free and clear to park where they please for as long as they please.

Oops, you missed case 3 entirely with the rule as written. I would suggest you re-write the rule. You could do the same thing with far fewer words and no ambiguity such as this:

Commercial vehicles shall be parked behind a fence or in a garage if parked overnight. Commercial vehicles present for delivery or in support of ongoing work shall only be left while workers are actively engaging in the project.

I am sure this can be further tweaked. But look to define what is allowed instead of what isn't allowed. Also, I would point out that you could cost your residents a lot of money should they need extensive work. Many tradesmen will spend more then 9 hours a day at a job site. (Hopefully) the point is to make sure they remove the vehicle from the project when they leave the site not to limit them to a nine hour day.

You may also want to define what constitutes a commercial vehicle in your rules. There is a lot of ambiguity. The easiest method is to specify signage, and the presence of racks or the like.

Brian,

Depends upon whether there are more things you don't want or more things you do want! LOL

Reminds me of a story from my childhood -- the days when everyone had their wash hanging on the line every Monday morning. One neighbor was bragging how clean her daughter was by the number of panties she had to hang out each Monday. Another neighbor explained, "Yeah, she's awfully clean, or awfully dirty!"

i have to say, your lawyer MAY have been "right" in telling you that the board could simply institute the rule, but he wasn't "smart". You proposed a rule, and had a public debate and vote. the rule was rejected by the majority of the owners. Then, at the advice of a lawyer, the board went ahead and made the rule anyway?

perhaps perfectly legal, but a judge will tear it apart. it wasn't smart, and my advice is step back, let a cooling off period happen while you work on a new rule, and then get everyone together to look it over before adopting it.

I agree with Brian.

This new "rule" will most likely crumble apart under a judge's scrutiny, since the membership has already voted the provision down as an amendment.

To then call it a "rule" and put it into play anyway will not be looked upon kindly by the court system, is my guess.

We were not trying to offend or pick on anyone we were just trying to clarify that commercial vehicles are not the same as pickup trucks. I think we may have been wrong. 1. The law of the state says they are. and some of the pickups have company logos on them and even though the logos are really small, I guess when I rethink this a logo or signs are logs and signs no matter the size. I think I am going to resign on Sat at the meeting as I do not like the way the rest of the board will not let this go. I think there is room for learnig but when we have been called on the carpet and we do not let it go were screwed.