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StevenW3 (Oklahoma)
Posts: 64
Posted:
Has anyone ever run across an effort to remove a resident from an HOA neighborhood by petition?
AnnaD2 (Florida)
Posts: 960
Posted:
Nope, not me
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Nope, doubt it would be legal. You can ask them to go all you want but it isn't like renting, you can't evict an owner.
DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798
Posted:
More details. Are you talking sex-offender or something?
StevenW3 (Oklahoma)
Posts: 64
Posted:
no criminal stuff at all...some residents don't like this family because they don't like dogs/kids on their property..
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By StevenW3 on 06/27/2008 6:55 AM
no criminal stuff at all...some residents don't like this family because they don't like dogs/kids on their property..

Good luck with that...Honestly I don't like dogs and kids on my grass either...I work hard on my grass and dog waste is bad for it and the type of grass I have is not designed to withstand heavy traffic, so I can sympathize with this guy.
PatrickH (California)
Posts: 204
Posted:
Hi Steven,

You wouldn't be able to force someone to move out of your association just by getting a petition signed.

You didn't say what the reason was that you'd want them gone, so I'm assuming it's either becuase they are breaking a lot of HOA rules or doing something illegal.

If it's a rules problem, the HOA has to start enforcing whatever rules they are violating. Follow whatever guidelines your HOA has to fine the owner for whatever violations they have. Maybe they'll get sick and tired of attending rule violation hearings and paying fines that they'll decide to either clean up their act or move away.

If it's a criminal activity problem, that's something for law enforcement to handle. Five to ten in the slammer for dealing drugs would be one sure fire way to get them out of the association!

Good Luck
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Stephen,

What you describe is called "discriminatin" and I believe it's against the law!

Most HOAs are mandatory non-profit corporations. Mandatory means every property owner MUST belong and ownership is transferred to the new owner when the property is sold. There is no way a member can have his membership revoked -- believe me many would simply love to have this capability!

There are HOAs that are voluntary. However, I don't know that a person's membership could be revoked even if it was voluntary. One would have to review the gov. docs.

First order of business. Read your gov. docs. Is your assn mandatory or voluntary? What do the docs say about membership?
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Stephen,

Sorry, I guess it's not against the law to discriminate against dogs and kids! But, it's certainly a juvenile reason for wanting to "kick" someone out of the neighborhood.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Steven,
This great Country of ours has over 300 million people that live here. I'll bet 20 m illion don't like their neighbors or their activities. Do you think that we can petition all of them to be removed? Sometimes, unless they are breaking the law and the cops put them away, you cannot force people out of their homes. It's against the Constitution. What horrible things are they doing that you feel that you or anyone can petition them away?
DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PatrickH on 06/27/2008 7:03 AM
Hi Steven,

You wouldn't be able to force someone to move out of your association just by getting a petition signed.

You didn't say what the reason was that you'd want them gone, so I'm assuming it's either becuase they are breaking a lot of HOA rules or doing something illegal.

If it's a rules problem, the HOA has to start enforcing whatever rules they are violating. Follow whatever guidelines your HOA has to fine the owner for whatever violations they have. Maybe they'll get sick and tired of attending rule violation hearings and paying fines that they'll decide to either clean up their act or move away.

If it's a criminal activity problem, that's something for law enforcement to handle. Five to ten in the slammer for dealing drugs would be one sure fire way to get them out of the association!

Good Luck

PatrickH, you might have missed StephenW3's second post where he said "no criminal stuff at all...some residents don't like this family because they don't like dogs/kids on their property.."

So it seems residents want to start a petition to get rid of a family that WANTS their CCR's enforced (assuming they have the usual no nusuance CCR) and not have kids/dogs on their property or trespassing.

Where's Donna when you need the rules enforced! (Just kidding Donna).
StevenW3 (Oklahoma)
Posts: 64
Posted:
This guy doesn't violate any of the covenants/restrictions not that I've ever seen or heard of the covenants/restrictions being enforced. I'm guessing that the parents don't like their kids or themselves being called out about being on the guy's property. He has filed complaints with the cops on a number of occasions from what I understand. He has been accused of cussing at kids which I also understand was proven wrong. I'm guessing that it'll go no where and I'm certainly not participating in any such action.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Discrimination is only against the law if you have authority and power to do what you are discriminating against and you fall under federal law. The HOA has no power to evict this person, therefore it can't discrimate.

This is just an example of stupidity at its finest. I don't like you so I am going to sign a petition to get you to leave. Last time I checked there is no rule in America that can make you sell a house you own and leave because your neighbors don't like you. It would be nice at times, but the way I look at it is if I am protecting my turf and you don't like it you can move!
StevenW3 (Oklahoma)
Posts: 64
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BradP on 06/27/2008 8:37 AM
Discrimination is only against the law if you have authority and power to do what you are discriminating against and you fall under federal law. The HOA has no power to evict this person, therefore it can't discrimate.

This is just an example of stupidity at its finest. I don't like you so I am going to sign a petition to get you to leave. Last time I checked there is no rule in America that can make you sell a house you own and leave because your neighbors don't like you. It would be nice at times, but the way I look at it is if I am protecting my turf and you don't like it you can move!

I agree...all that they need to do is respect the guy's requests and avoid the guy's property..
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Never say never, it's in our CC&R's for our condo HOA. Not because the BOD or other homeowners don't like the person but for defined reasons. In 16 years I've never heard of it being attempted and I do not know if it would be upheld in court but it's in there.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Steven:

This guy wouldn't by any chance be you, would it?

Exactly to whom, or what authority, would the "petition" be directed to enforce it's content?

I mean, to the guy's bank (or whatever mortgage holder) and what would be the impetus for that organization (or governing body) to actually enforce the petition and evict him?

I'm not quite sure what is going on nor to whom it's being sent.

I'm trying to envision people in our neighborhood approaching the board with a petition that purports to "force" someone out of the subdivision, and I'm drawing a blank on what we could even do about it if we DID receive it!

Sounds weird to me.

On the other hand, if a group of neighbors were having "nuisance" issues with a resident, and they all banded together (in the form of petition or simply a list of nuisance complaints), we could, and should, as a board enforce against the actions that qualify as "nuisance," per our CC&Rs.

It would be awesome to actually have the petition, because what we often run into is residents who are afraid of getting involved and either don't want to make a formal complaint, or don't want to sign affidavits regarding the nuisance activity if we go to court. . . (that pesky "retribution" thing tends to get in the way).

Even so, the relief we could seek would only be to have him stop the nuisance activity. We certainly couldn't force him or his family to leave.

Frankly, I don't know who could (if he's not a renter and owns the home).
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Hmmm, if I understand Steven correctly, it seems this resident doesn't want his neighbor's kids or their pets on HIS property. That's his right, and it doesn't matter whether he lives in an HOA community or not. So, let me get this straignt now, since this guy won't let his neighbor's kids or their pets on HIS property, they want HIM to leave? That IS a new twist!
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
I dunno, Bruce, I think we're only getting a small fraction of this story.

Granted, it IS intriguing.

Maybe he's turning the hose on them?

Maybe he's got a caged panther he's threatening them with?

Maybe he's got a set of bass speakers outside and cranks them up when they come nearby?

Maybe he puts out antifreeze-laced brownies?

Did he dig a moat and place poisonous snakes in it?

It is an odd one, that's for sure!

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 06/27/2008 9:36 AM
Never say never, it's in our CC&R's for our condo HOA. Not because the BOD or other homeowners don't like the person but for defined reasons. In 16 years I've never heard of it being attempted and I do not know if it would be upheld in court but it's in there.

Glen,

Are you saying your docs authorize the board to ask a person to sell their property for specific reasons? What are the reasons?
EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148
Posted:
Donna,

You are so on point. I am 76 and have never had a problem with a neighbor. Maybe I was just lucky but it may be that I saw their point of view, avoided arguing and ALWAYS try to compromise. You usually get back what you give. I had a new neighbor who called me all in a huff saying my dog was barking while her little one was napping. This dog didn't even bark for the first year of his life and very seldom did. She was very confrontational but I didn't take it personally and told her I was so sorry and didn't realize he was barking and took him inside. How hard was that? We ended up being very good neighbors and her little daughter that was once afraid of dogs ended up loving mine and asked if she could go with me when I walked him.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MicheleD on 06/27/2008 2:55 PM
I dunno, Bruce, I think we're only getting a small fraction of this story.

Granted, it IS intriguing.

Maybe he's turning the hose on them?

Maybe he's got a caged panther he's threatening them with?

Maybe he's got a set of bass speakers outside and cranks them up when they come nearby?

Maybe he puts out antifreeze-laced brownies?

Did he dig a moat and place poisonous snakes in it?

It is an odd one, that's for sure!


Perhaps he is telling us the truth, perhaps his neighbors are inconsiderate and let their kids run all over and their dogs all over. Perhaps he is doing what I would do and try to protect his property.
KirkW1 (Texas)
Posts: 1,665
Posted:
If it were in my neighborhood I would try to make sure the HOA distanced itself as far as possible from the petition. It is just reeks of bad karma that will surely come home to roost very quickly. Especially if the HOA is in any way involved.

Consider first, that the act of the petition is likely an infringement of his fair housing rights. And if he is a minority it might also be a hate crime. While individuals are not likely targets, the HOA with its insurance and bank accounts is a target. Further, the officers of the HOA are targets because of their position of power.

Consider also that someone has surely said something that is slanderous. And that someone will surely let the cat out of the bag.

What if they guy simply goes to the media? The neighborhood itself can not possibly win the situation. Either it has an ogre in the midst, or it is full of mean spirited people. Neither one will endear potential home buyers. But so far the man's "crime" is believing that his property is for his personal enjoyment.

I am sure there is much more to he situation. It would be a first if there wasn't. But I would never sign such a petition. Just seems like a very bad idea to me. Further, I would not be on a board if the HOA had anything to do with it. Though I have personal legal protection through my employer, and my HOA carries a D&O policy, I just don't think a lawsuit could possibly be enjoyable.
StevenW3 (Oklahoma)
Posts: 64
Posted:
There is no discrimination involved here as the guy is white and the vast majority of the neighborhood with the exception of 4 families (2-black, 2-hispanic) are white also. There is nothing else involved here other than the guy dislikes kids using his yard as a short-cut and seeing dog owners letting their dogs use his yard as their toilet (they even let them mark their territory on his mail box which I've seen happen). The guy is older but that's about the extent of what might be considered any kind of discrimination. I personally see this as a few parents who are trying to get back at the guy for their kids getting into trouble with the law....in MHO not acceptable and very childish on their part...
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By StevenW3 on 06/27/2008 6:46 PM
There is no discrimination involved here as the guy is white and the vast majority of the neighborhood with the exception of 4 families (2-black, 2-hispanic) are white also. There is nothing else involved here other than the guy dislikes kids using his yard as a short-cut and seeing dog owners letting their dogs use his yard as their toilet (they even let them mark their territory on his mail box which I've seen happen). The guy is older but that's about the extent of what might be considered any kind of discrimination. I personally see this as a few parents who are trying to get back at the guy for their kids getting into trouble with the law....in MHO not acceptable and very childish on their part...

I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree...I can see why their kids are in trouble if the parents act this way.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BradP on 06/27/2008 6:03 PM
Posted By MicheleD on 06/27/2008 2:55 PM
I dunno, Bruce, I think we're only getting a small fraction of this story.

Granted, it IS intriguing.

Maybe he's turning the hose on them?

Maybe he's got a caged panther he's threatening them with?

Maybe he's got a set of bass speakers outside and cranks them up when they come nearby?

Maybe he puts out antifreeze-laced brownies?

Did he dig a moat and place poisonous snakes in it?

It is an odd one, that's for sure!



Perhaps he is telling us the truth, perhaps his neighbors are inconsiderate and let their kids run all over and their dogs all over. Perhaps he is doing what I would do and try to protect his property.

Who said he was fibbing?

I don't think he's not necessarily telling the truth. I just said I think we might be getting only a fraction of the story.

There ARE usually two sides. . .

And he may well be trying to protect his property.

The question is, how?

In what manner?

It's apparently questionable enough in itself if there are people getting up a petition to help him move out. . .

I'd just like to know what the guy is actually DOING that has triggered such a visceral response from the neighbors. Enough of them to begin a petition. . .

And I'm not saying he should be booted out for whatever it is he is doing.

I just wanna know what it is.

I'm curious.

Because he's absolutely correct. Most of us have never heard of such a scenario.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 06/27/2008 4:52 PM
Posted By GlenL on 06/27/2008 9:36 AM
Never say never, it's in our CC&R's for our condo HOA. Not because the BOD or other homeowners don't like the person but for defined reasons. In 16 years I've never heard of it being attempted and I do not know if it would be upheld in court but it's in there.


Glen,

Are you saying your docs authorize the board to ask a person to sell their property for specific reasons? What are the reasons?

Actually Mary it says the Association may ask a court to make them sell and as I posted earlier I have never known it to be invoked nor am I sure it would be enforceable.

Section 13.3 Involuntary Sale: If any owner (either by his own conduct or by the conduct of any other occupant of his Unit) shall violate any of the covenants or restrictions or provisions of the general law, this Declaration or of the By-Laws of the Association attached hereto as Exhibit C, or the regulations adopted by the Board of Trustees of the Association, and such violation shall continue for fifteen (15) days after notice in writing from the Board of Trustees or shall occur repeatedly during any one-year period after written notice or request from the Board of Trustees to cure such violation, then the Board of Trustees shall have the power to issue the defaulting owner a thirty (30) day notice in writing to terminate the rights of the said defaulting owner to continue as an owner and to continue to occupy, use or control his unit. Thereupon, an action in equity may be filed by the Board of Trustees against the defaulting owner for a decree of mandatory injunction against the owner or occupant subject to the prior consent in writing of any mortgagee having a security interest in the unit ownership of the defaulting owner, which consent shall not be unreasonably withheld. In the alternative, the action may pray for a decree declaring the termination of the defaulting owner’s right to occupy, use or control the Unit owned by him on account of the breach of covenants, and ordering that all the right, title and interest of the owner in the property be sold (subject to the lien of any existing mortgage) at a judicial sale upon such notice and terms as the court shall establish, provided that the court shall enjoin and restrain the defaulting owner directly or indirectly from reacquiring his interest at such judicial sale. The Association, however, may acquire said interest at such judicial sale. The proceeds of any such judicial sale shall first be paid to discharge court costs, master’s or commissioner’s fees, court reporter charges, reasonable attorneys’ fees, real estate taxes and assessments and all other expenses of the proceedings, and all such items shall be taxes against the defaulting owner in said decree. Any balance of proceeds, after satisfaction of such charges and any unpaid assessments hereunder or any liens may be paid to the owner. Upon the confirmation of such sale, the purchaser thereat shall thereupon be entitled to a deed to the unit ownership and to immediate possession of the Unit sold and may apply to the court for a writ of assistance for the purpose of acquiring such possession, and the decree shall so provide that the purchaser shall take the interest in the property sold subject to this Declaration.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798
Posted:
Now THAT is one SCARY CCR! Welcome to the HOA.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
I second that! Scary indeed!!! I wonder if this would really hold up in court? Glad to hear your HOA has never invoked this article -- at least not w/i the past 16 years. But, remember, you're only one election away. . . .
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Mary,

Talk about a document covenant that needs updating. WOW!! from me too.

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