MichelleB7
(South Carolina)
Posts:5
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| 06/26/2008 8:09 AM |
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Our HOA is in South Carolina. We have a "tot lot" that a number of the older children have taken over. Is posting a sign stating the age limit (as posted on the equipment) and the following rules legal and enforceable by local law enforcement?
1. Play equipment is for the use of children under the age of XX who may play at their own risk.
2. Supervision of minors is encouraged.
3. The tot lot is closed after dark.
4. Unacceptable behavior will result in loss of privileges to this area.
Most of the complaints I have receivd is the older kids interfering with the younger children's playing, blocking play area, etc., foul language around younger children, and teens fighting.
Any comments, suggestions, etc. are welcome.
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BradP
(Kansas)
Posts:1742
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| 06/26/2008 9:13 AM |
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| Should be legal, the board is allowed to make reasonable rules for common area, those rules seem reasonable to me. |
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:2299
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| 06/26/2008 9:19 AM |
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Michelle,
Get yourself a BIG MEAN MAN HOMEOWNER to go down a few times and scare the pants off of them. Clue them in because it seems that they cannot read. Adults still rule the last time that I checked it out. |
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GlenL
(Ohio)
Posts:1221
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| 06/26/2008 9:40 AM |
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| While I totally agree that it is within the rights to enforce rules and protect the children there; why are these kids hanging out there? Is there nothing more age appropriate for them to do in the community or is it all little kids or adults, nothing in between? Are they there because bigger kids or adults bullying them away from where they should be? |
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KevinK7
(Florida)
Posts:56
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| 06/26/2008 9:46 AM |
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| I would think that if these teenagers are interfering with the normal operation of the tot lot, the sign idea would be a good start to clearly outline the purpose of the property, maybe even adding a line about trespassers. Although it may be common property, that would be the responsibility of the the HOA to ensure its proper use and safety. If after posting the sign the problem does not go away, I would maybe get involved with your local community watch or law enforcement to help keep these teenagers from effecting those trying to use the tot lot correctly. |
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MichelleB7
(South Carolina)
Posts:5
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| 06/26/2008 1:20 PM |
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I am the HOA President here. This has been an ongoing problem with the teenagers. There is nothing else in the community for them because I have over $11,000 in back dues that I am pursuing payment on. With financials in the red each month, it is virtually impossible to provide the teenagers with a basketball court or some other means of constructive recreation.
I have provided parents and teens information on our recreation department, a free skate park, directions to local parks, YMCA, etc. The response from a majority of these parents is on whether or not the HOA will provide transportation.
A majority of the problem is that these teenagers are bored and need an outlet, the parens do not supervise them, and they do not want their kids to be involved in anything. I have two children and they have organized activities and free time, but I know who they are with and what they are doing. I know they are not angels, I don't know of any kids who are but these parents are truly clueless.
One of the teens actually burned the playground down previously and now we are having complaints of him throwing rocks at homeowners cats. Had the HOA been in effect with homeowners at that time, I would have held his parents responsible for the damages as well as barring him from the playground - especially since it was his second arson at age 13. Most of the problems we have here are common sense related, I don't think there is anyway to get through to the parents that unacceptable behavior will not be tolerated, playing in vacant homes is inappropriate, and property damage is a crime.
We do have a Neighborhood Watch in effect and I have the local police patroling the area on a more regular basis. I am hoping that the sign will be a deterrant on future vandalism, etc.
If anyone has any other ideas, please forward them along. |
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TonyM3
(Arizona)
Posts:117
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| 06/26/2008 1:40 PM |
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Posted By MichelleB7 on 06/26/2008 8:09 AM
...and[sic] the following rules legal and enforceable by local law enforcement? Any comments, suggestions, etc. are welcome.
Honestly, I wouldn't think so. The cops have a hard enough time enforcing state and municipality laws. You might find one or two patrol cops who are more neighborhood friendly and be willing to say something. But to be legally enforceable...sorry.
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BrianB
(California)
Posts:1591
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| 06/26/2008 4:04 PM |
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how about setting up some volunteers to hang out at the play area. usually, nothing bums teens out more than parents/adults hanging around watching them. Even better, parents with craft projects, paint brushes, polka music, etc..
remember, you don't have to make your tot area totally immune to teens, you only need to make it more immune than some other place. |
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EllenS1
(Florida)
Posts:321
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| 06/26/2008 5:42 PM |
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| I agree with Donna and some others on this board..Have fathers and mothers congregate there when the tots are there. Or better yet, enlist one or two teens and let them know about the problem and see if they will volunteer to monitor the situation. May not help but is worth the effort. There are more good teens out there than bad. Make them feel responsible for looking out for the tots and if they do give them some sort of recognition. |
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DwightT
(Idaho)
Posts:342
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| 06/26/2008 6:36 PM |
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Silly question: why aren't the tot's parents out there with them? I'm the last one to say that kids shouldn't be able to play in their own neighborhood without supervision, but this sounds like a situation where those parents should be dealing with the situation. Not every issue is an HOA issue.
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TonyM3
(Arizona)
Posts:117
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| 06/26/2008 9:44 PM |
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| We've been investigating the thought of selling our tot lot due to similar issues. If a private home was there problem solved. |
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GlenL
(Ohio)
Posts:1221
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| 06/26/2008 10:31 PM |
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Posted By TonyM3 on 06/26/2008 9:44 PM
We've been investigating the thought of selling our tot lot due to similar issues. If a private home was there problem solved.
Check your documents carefully it will probably take 100% affirmative vote by the homeowners to sell off a common area unless you're still under Declarant control. |
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TonyM3
(Arizona)
Posts:117
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| 06/27/2008 9:34 AM |
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| We're seeking legal guidance and putting a committee together to do an impact study. We also have other large common tracts that can sustain the play equipment. This might be a win-win. |
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:2299
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| 06/27/2008 9:43 AM |
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Tony,
On your list of "impacts", add that the Tots will now have to play in the streets. Removing a safe place for them to play is giving in to other problems. If it is that the older kids are bothering the younger ones, then the parents of the young ones should take a turn at sitting for an hour to keep control of the older ones.
My developement had no areas for any kids to play so they used the streets and forget trying to use the cul-du-sacs because they were full of kids, little and littler. So consider other factors other than what the Board can use this lot for other than what it was designated for. |
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TonyM3
(Arizona)
Posts:117
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| 06/27/2008 9:51 AM |
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| Thanks for your input, Donna. Although not to be redundant; as I wrote in my previous post- 'we also have other large common tracts that can sustain the play equipment.' These are exterior tracts as opposed to an interior tot lot surrounded by member's homes who happen to be dealing with much of the inconvenience. |
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:2299
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| 06/27/2008 10:03 AM |
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Tony,
GOTTCHA!! One of the impacts of course will be cost. Will it be effective. Just another thought. |
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BrianB
(California)
Posts:1591
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| 06/27/2008 3:44 PM |
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tony, you may want to think about using an exterior lot... currently, the problem is with teens from within the HOA? imagine how much fun it will be when you are on the public edge of the HOA, and teens from other areas, neighborhoods, etc. can find a new hang out.
the situation may not be applicable to you, but it is worth thinking about if it is. |
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TonyM3
(Arizona)
Posts:117
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| 06/27/2008 4:08 PM |
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I hear ya, but-
1) This tract is a large grassy area (maybe an acre) that's always been there and beside the occasional vagrant camping out behind a bush it's never had any appeal. And I don't believe some tot swings will make it more appealing to teens.
2) Possibly because there's really no close parking. Teens like to hang in and around their cars/trucks.
3) It's close to a well lit main road paroled heavily by city police.
4) There's a large city park across the way with many amenities.
I like the idea but we'll see what the committee comes up with and then maybe it'll eventually get to a membership vote. The way the market is now it's probably not the greatest time to sell the lot and not the best time for a builder either. Most likely we'll be sitting on the idea for a few more years. |
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EllenS1
(Florida)
Posts:321
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| 06/27/2008 4:18 PM |
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| I sure wouldn't want my tots to play unsupervised in an area that has occasional vagrants, across from a city park which may attract predators, etc. Can't someone make a case for parents to supervise your tot lot with a schedule of who will take their turn and when? |
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TonyM3
(Arizona)
Posts:117
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| 06/27/2008 4:46 PM |
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| I've never seen unsupervised tots playing there. Outside of watching their own kids I can't imagine anyone wanting to play tot lot cop. Then again ya never know. This is a good sized city with all the inherent dangers that comes with the territory. I only get one vote but if I had my way we'd do away with the totlot completely. |
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MaryA1
(Arizona)
Posts:1556
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| 06/29/2008 4:23 AM |
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Michelle,
If these teenagers are breaking any assn rules then the parents need to be sent violation notices and applicable fines. On the other hand, as Dwight said, not every issue is an HOA issue. And, why aren't the tots' parents supervising their play? Even your tot lot rules state supervision of minors is suggested. Even if the tot lot was right next to my house, I would be out their supervising my child. Of course not all parents are as conscientious as they should be! Seems to me this is really an issue to be dealt with by the parents. |
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MichelleB7
(South Carolina)
Posts:5
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| 07/23/2008 6:51 AM |
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| I am outside almost all day with my young children. There are 3 and 5 year olds walking in the middle of the street and all of the community with no supervision. I am the only parent out there stopping fights, etc. and when the parents are confronted, it is like talking to a rock. I hate to be the neighborhood NARC, so to speak, but a lot of the parents here just do not care what their kids are doing as long as they are out of their hair. We've ended up calling the police several times and now the older kidds are throwing rocks from the park up to the homes boardering it. We do have two town police officers coming through quite a bit now and they are cracking down on the kids. Hopefully if the parents are hit in the pocket with fines and the police are paying visits to their homes, perhaps they will pay more attention to where their children are and what they are doing. President of the HOA, or not, I always know where my children are, who they are with, and what they are doing. My children are not angels, but I do my best to make sure they stay on the right path and pal around with kids whose parents know where their children are. |
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:2299
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| 07/23/2008 7:14 AM |
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Michelle,
Welcome to society as it is today. Sorry to say that what you are experiencing is almost the norm . How sad is that. It has to be changed but you nor I cannot do this alone. How do we get all parents to realize what has happened to our society? I cannot give an answer but it has to be done.(soap box) |
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RobertB20
(Florida)
Posts:21
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| 08/04/2008 11:11 PM |
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| we in our Tot-Lot have it posted in writing ALL MUST BE ACCOMPANIED BY an Adult at all times, no parents no kids should be in that area. You must realize that if anyone is injured by an older child and no one is supervising them then you know your HOA or Condo now has a law suit and pray its not a serious injury. |
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MicheleD
(Kentucky)
Posts:1444
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| 08/05/2008 11:57 AM |
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RobertB: How do you enforce that? If it says "all must be accompanied" then what happens when they are not? If they are younger kids, probably not hard to make them go home, but what if it's older kids/teens? How does that work?
We have a similar problem with our lake/retention basin area. Every time we post signs, they vandalize and alter them.
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MichelleB7
(South Carolina)
Posts:5
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| 08/09/2008 7:38 PM |
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| As an FYI - we asked our local law enforcement if they would help enforce the rules and they said they would aid us as much as they could. |
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MaryA1
(Arizona)
Posts:1556
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| 08/10/2008 8:01 AM |
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Posted By MichelleB7 on 08/09/2008 7:38 PM
As an FYI - we asked our local law enforcement if they would help enforce the rules and they said they would aid us as much as they could.
You must live in a small town! Our P.D. has enough trouble investigating home burgularies, I'm sure they're going to check out our tot-lot to make certain all the tots are accompanied by an adult! Believe that and I've got some "oceanfront property in AZ"! LOL
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