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KirkW1
(Texas)

Posts:917

06/18/2008 6:50 PM
Posted By DJ1 on 06/18/2008 8:56 AM It is a little disconcerting (but human nature) that members here promote a retaliatory response to a homeowner who was within her right to request to see association records. DJ, My response was not because someone asked to see records they are within their rights to see. My response was in relation to someone who at least appears to be out to stir up trouble. The PM asking what she wanted to see is reasonable as it would allow him to prepare those documents. And having an appointment is also reasonable. But when the owner fails to show up and then claims it didn't say AM or PM that is unreasonable. Especially when the letter said in the morning. Either way, a phone call could have resolved the confusion assuming there really was. I think those are the things that caused people to push back (including the original poster.

SidneyP
(Florida)

Posts:274

06/18/2008 6:53 PM
Ellen....it wasn't my case, it was never mentioned....they JUST DON'T handle HO Association's....as soon as HO Association was mentioned the conversation was over....

DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:441

06/18/2008 7:10 PM
Kirk, the point you quoted I was referring to the suggestion to photocopy and bill her when she has only requested to see documents, as permitted in the legislation. Being punitive isn't the solution and could backfire. The point you previously made that she may not want to give a heads up on what she is looking for is sufficient reason, although one isn't needed, for not disclosing what she is looking for.

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2511

06/19/2008 5:15 AM
DJ, Annas Association has complied with State requirements to accomodate the request for viewing the documents. The woman who has requested inspection did not reply to that which the Board had set up for her to view the documents. It is NOT the Board or P.Ms duty to chase her down. Secondly, she has not indicated what she wants to see, and that alone is NOT proper procedure unless she want to sit for days to read all of the documents. The Statute states that the BOARD may establish time and place for the request. Here again, the woman has not followed that part. Boards basically, Boards do the best that they can and us Board members know how much is involved in trying to run our Associations. There are troublemakers who will question every move that we make. There are non complyers who think that they are being picked on and there are just plain nosy folks who think that they should know everything. Do Boards get frustrated and want to just throw in the towels? You bet they do but the normal reaction is to just do the work and hope for the best. Does this woman need a reason to review or copy the documents? According to the Statutes--NO-- but when she postured herself for a fight, what else would you expect from the Board and P.M? I take offense that you are nit picking this situation to the point that you are. Walk in the shoes of a Board member with some association members always playing cops against the Board and you would ease up on looking for the "magic word" to start an altercation.

DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:441

06/19/2008 7:06 AM
Donna, I have not questioned nor do I disagree with these comments, 1)Boards do the best that they can, (majority) 2)There are troublemakers who will question every move that we make. (not everyone who questions is a troublemaker though) 3) It is NOT the Board or P.Ms duty to chase her down. You seem to miss things I said like, 1)Begrudgingly fulfilling ones volunteer responsibilities is also not what the position entails, NOR DOES IT INVOLVE BEING ABUSED BY MEMBERS I do disgree with you that, 1)she has not indicated what she wants to see, and that alone is NOT proper procedure Who's procedure? Not in the legislation you posted and Anna hasn't indicated they have a procedure (which they are entitled to establish under the legislation). I'm simply saying step back, try to de-escalate the situation and possibly avoid unnecessary costs to the association. I'm not going to assume the situation didn't escalate because of misunderstanding between the parties. Anna in all likelihood is correct HOWEVER I'd want to be as sure as possible that I did everything possible to give the lady the access she wants for whatever reason she wants it. It isn't about who is right and who is wrong, even a wronged person can make the first move to de-escalate a situation. It isn't your 'job' to do so but then the volunteering mentality is to do good and provide a benefit to others. No?

LaverneB
(Florida)

Posts:122

06/20/2008 3:04 PM
There is one in every community!!These people do nothing for the HOA just look for things. I am the President of our HOA and the firist woman so don't give up. Ignore them. They hate that!! Also if you think this is a "threat" you may have a case.Throw that back at her. But, nicely...........Good Luck Fl

BobT2
(California)

Posts:43

06/20/2008 3:29 PM
It would be easy and the right thing to do to set up a time via certified mail. Meet with her and act adult in thought and words to settle this. After all she is entitled to see the records. It is part of the board's duty to show them to her. Then it does not look like the board or more so the PM is trying to hide anything from her. Show her the records ASAP with a big smile.

AnnaD2
(Florida)

Posts:283

06/20/2008 3:47 PM
It's never ending. Now there is a petition circulating to recall the entire board for get this: ALLOWING OUR INSURANCE TO LAPSE. Which it did not. It's the same group of disgruntled former board members. They happened to sit down before our last board meeting while our board president, P.M. and insurance agent were wrapping up THEIR little meeting to sign our insurance forms. "They" heard our insurance agent joke that the insurance had lapsed, and the three people "involved" in the insurance meeting had a laugh about it. But being true to form, "THE OTHERS" took the information and ran with it. They've been telling members that the board was negligent in allowing the insurance to lapse and that they're recalling the entire board for it. As soon as I got wind of this false rumor I contacted the insurance agent and he confirmed that he paid the insurance premium and our association reimbursed him, all within the time frame to have coverage. Yet because of these people I had to take another two hours out of my day to write up and deliver to every door a confirmation that that rumor is FALSE and that we're up to date on everything. There has got to be SOME WAY to stop people like this who have no business spreading false rumors from hearsay. It's exasperating trying to explain the actions of every, single thing the Board does. Most of it is day-to-day business that the board was elected to take care of---so the rest of the association doesn't have to worry about it. Yet these few think THEY should have a say in what goes on daily. A board cannot function property or efficiently with people like this.

DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:441

06/20/2008 5:26 PM
So it sounds like there is ALOT more going on here that just one women with an axe to grind. The more communication and openess probably the better. Here's an oxymoron for you, "I'm a volunteer I don't have time for this!"

EllenS1
(Florida)

Posts:328

06/21/2008 8:26 AM
SidneyP, Most attorneys who do not specialize in a certain area would be happy to refer you to one who does. That was one reason I felt they didn't think you had a case.

AnnaD2
(Florida)

Posts:283

06/21/2008 3:12 PM
Donna, thank you again, and again and again, for putting out there the message we're trying to say. You have the ability to say what most of us are thinking! You really have a way with words. YOU have walked in our shoes and those are the people we will heed.

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2511

06/21/2008 3:54 PM
Thank You Anna, I cannot sweet talk when it comes to what I feel is right and I will be at my worst when someone starts to nit pick at nothings. Especially here when we get non Board members who want to get out of trouble that their ignorances have caused. I will always be pro Board and when any Board deserves a tongue lashing, I will be first in line to give it to them. I am not always right but I try to be morally good and hopefully have the experiences to back up my judgements.

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2511

06/21/2008 3:55 PM
DJ, Love the oxymoron

SidneyP
(Florida)

Posts:274

06/21/2008 3:59 PM
Ellen....well they didn't because we never even got that far in conversation...Did you read my post listing all the things the Board has done wrong (this was only part of our problems), these were/are serious acts, when going against the State and Federal government and actions that harm community and HO's...All of the things they have done was "knowingly and willingly"...they had to know it was wrong, at least you'd thing so out of five Board members one of them plus the MC would have read the CC&R's and SS-720 and know how to fill out the IRS tax form...IMO, the community will never recover financially w/o a large assessment increase or a "Special Assessment". This would not have been necessary had the Board done their job. As I have said in other post, this President has appointed all the Board members and she rules, what ever she says they agree on...The treasurer just resigned in March because of her actions (the treasurer wasn't allowed to work the budget, the President did, the treasurer had nothing to do w/the taxes, the President did) All of her duties were taken over by the President and the MC. She quit and I stepped in but we all know one person can't make a difference. The very most I can do is call them on the harm they are doing to our community. I don't set quietly by, I have learned my duties and I intend to follow them. Doing this places me in the trouble maker role...The very few (7/8 HO's that show up to meeting) HO's that actually live there, begged me to get back on the Board but none of them will step up to the plate and help.....Besides all the community harm, I have gone through must personal harrassment and name calling. I have been placed on the selective enforcement list...I was put through hxxl trying to get my fence approved, when we have others (VP for one) who never got approvals at all. Three days ago, I went to the TH to water and plant some flowers. The yearly contracted termite man was there doing our building. I was the only one that was not notified he was coming, I never got notification. Reguardless of what you think, I am not a nitpicker and look for every little fault the Board may make. I (we/husband) have done more for the community then all the Board members put together...This TH is an investment for me and if I have to I will continue to point out their many illegal acts. If you don't think those things I have listed are important to the welfare of the community then I don't know what you thing is. If you think it's easy to find an attorney to handle a single HO in a suit, please find one for me. One that will at least give me a chance to state my case. If he would tell me, I have no case, then the CC&R's, SS, IRS and this site has no meaning. The post on this site want to know how to handle dog poop, a simple sign in the yard, a tree planted in the wrong place, a car not parked in the garage, etc...how can these things be important if the taking from Reserves, not funding Reserves, paying taxes late, not filing on vendors, raising due w/o notice and so on and so on (read the post below) If these things aren't cause for a law suite then I don't know what is.

EllenS1
(Florida)

Posts:328

06/21/2008 9:47 PM
Sidney, Contact the Florida Bar in Tallahassee for a reference to an attorney and if a Management Company is causing you problems contact the DPR in Florida.

MaryN
(Virginia)

Posts:125

06/22/2008 5:50 AM
Sidney, I know how difficult it is to find an attorney to represent a HO. We searched for over 6 months..and finally found a CAI attorney who talked to me on the phone, reviewed all of our controlling legal documents and took our case. His firm is representing us(several HO's)and we are going to court. It's taken almost a year since we began this legal journey..we feel confident. His firm deals with nothing but HOA's and he understands the statutes. Search around on the CAI sites and see if you can find someone in your area. Good luck..it takes money and courage proceed in the legal direction. Keep us posted. MaryN

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