Pool and Booze

Hello all,
I really appreciate all your information and really have found some great advice here!

Our HOA atty has sent out their little monthly email with questions and answers ect. This months focus was pools and liability.

There was mention of asking to pass a no alcohol by the pool rule! I myself feel that perhaps that is going a bit too far, and I refuse to go and check cups and pitchers for alcohol. It has NOT been an issue before and I am wondering if the board can actually enforce this?

Our rules only ask that appropriate plastic ware be utilized. no glass.

Nicole:

I would have your board check with your insurance company to see if there is any potential savings with having such a rule.

I think an important thing to remember is way too often in life things aren't an issue (or what we perceive to be one) until it is too late.

Can it be enforced, absolutely, the board has the authority to make rules and regs for your common areas. If it is made a rule it should be enforced.

I was thinking that if there is a rule in place and it is enforced, if a homeowner chooses to drink booze and hit the hot tub and gets hurt the liability would be on them correct?

Nicole, here is another way of looking at the issue. Before making a rule based on what is apparently one persons desire to ban booze at the pool, the BOD should try to determine the membership's views as a whole on the ban. Imposition of a rule that is not wanted or desired by at least a majority, will guarantee ahead of time compliance and enforcement problems. Also the BOD could find out why this one member wants booze banned, as there may be other ways of fixing the person's problem. And thirdly, if a member of the BOD or even a regular member is posted at the gate to check for compliance on a rule that most deem unfair, that person needs to expect retaliation of some sort. At that point, the BOD will really have some headaches.

Sorry, but I am NOT going to invade someone's drink. That is just plain loooney. No, I am not going to stand at the gate and check thier coolers. I dont' need my car keyed or my front door egged..

Nicole,

I agree that I wouldn't want to go asking to check people's drinks. It violates the very principles of our nation. Further, I think you should really consider if you like your atty sending out an email that crosses the professional line. It really is none of his business. He is an employee and thus has no business requesting you pass any rule. If he believes it would lower your liability, then he should say so. But outside informing you, he has no business.

Further, I think passing a rule that you don't enforce is not sensible. It could actually open you up for a greater liability. If you pass a rule, then don't enforce it the argument that you are responsible for an alcohol related accident.

I also agree with the statement about what the neighborhood wants. If there is no problem, then why would you pass a rule? That makes no sense at all. Finally, if you do decide no alcohol, try to word it in a positive manner. "Soft drinks only in the pool area."

I myself do not think that this potential rule will take off. First of all i DO NOT support it. I will not enforce it and I do not want to place myself or anyone else at potential retaliation actions due to the enquiry of beverage an adult may have.

OUR board at times forgets..that we ALL own this building.. Not just them

Glen:

That is a great post...attorney's tend to error on the side of being cautious. However, if someone ever gets hurt an a lawsuit ensues, the fact that the board was advised to not allow alcohol and ignored that advice will come up and won't look good.

We all at one time probably liked to endulge in adult beverages, however, it is important to take the welfare of the association into account here first and foremost. Donna's suggestion of posting signage and making homeowners aware of the rule is a good one. You don't need to be the Nazi police and check every cup, if it is posted and a reasonable person should see it and know it then you have covered yourself.

The following just went into our newsletter....We now have rats running on the pool deck due to food and drinks, which we don't allow either.

It's an "all about me" mentality, but at least we tried.

NO ALCOHOL

Alcohol and water never mix. Alcohol is involved in frequent water-related injuries and up to half of all water-related deaths. The statistics for teenage guys are particularly scary: One half of all adolescent male drownings are tied to alcohol use. Limiting alcohol consumption is important, as it is one of the most frequently reported contributory factors associated with adolescent and adult drowning.

Our association needs to take an active role in preventing accidents, injuries, and providing a safe pool environment for the entire community. Kids can find games and activities at: www.SplashZoneUSA.SplashZoneUSA.com to learn more about safe water behavior.

It's great to have summer fun; however, safety is the key. So relax, be responsible, take the plunge, and enjoy the pool!

Just curious Nicole, how do the board members currently investigate or inspect situations elsewhere in the community that may be violations of the rules?

If someone files a complaint about X rule being broken, what does the board currently do?

Nicole:

Why would you have to? There are all kinds of pool regulations and I am sure that you don't enforce them all. A common one is you can't enter a pool with an open cut, and I am quite sure that you don't inspect everyone's body.

Post signage, educate your members and leave it at that. If there is a big sign at the entrance of the pool that says NO ALCOHOL and they ignore that they pass the liability from you to them.

Nah, ellen: if you start thinking that you should control behavior, rather than all the other things people want to legislate, you would toss out rules about 55+ communities, pets and breed rules, renters versus homeowners, etc.. It's somewhat ingrained to make "types" of things wrong, not actions.

Imagine all the paradigms we would have to discard if we followed your advice, and actually banned the actions and behaviors:
Renters always have loud parties, owners parties are always quiet
visiting children are quieter than children who live in the community
motorcycles driven by 30 year olds are louder than motorcycles driven by 60 year olds
pit bulls attack people without provocation, cocker spaniels never bite
renters trash homes, owners maintain immaculate lawns

I agree, I wouldn't do it...BUT, I bet there are plenty of people within the association who love playing cop or spy. Utilize their services.

As a note, we do not allow glass or metal containers, or coolers, and absolutely no alcoholic beverages or cigarettes at our pool. Therefore, if someone gets drunk and injures themselves, it is at their own peril.

Donna

Kirk:

With all due respect my opinion differs from yours

1. IMO the lawyer did not cross the line. Their job is to advise their clients on things that in their opinion are beneficial to the HOA. It was his opinion that to help lower liability a rule like this should be passed. The Board doesn't have to listen to him, but at the same time being advised and ignoring legal advice isn't the smartest move.

2. I would agree to a point...if someone really wants to get drunk and do something stupid they are going to do it regardless of what you do. That is why there are so many DUI's and alcohol related deaths in this country. What it does do is take the person who is on the fence and makes them think twice about things.

3. One thing I haven't been clear on is whether the pool is monitored or not? If it is monitored then if a rule is passed whoever is monitoring the pool needs to enforce the rules. However, if the pool is not monitored then how and why should you enforce it? Post signage and inform homeowners of the rules....if they choose to break it that is there problem. They say ignorance of the law is no excuse, in my opinion it holds true here, igorance of a rule does not push liability off of you and to someone else.

It is the boards job to keep the best interest of the association in mind, sometimes that can conflict with what your members want. At the end of the day if the board is exposing the HOA to greater liability and risk just because the members didn't want a rule that is wrong and the board is breaking their duty to the association. I would agree that most of the time the board should do what the majority of the association wants, to me this is not one of those times.

People.

I need to clarify a few things. We have a tiny pool area, a tiny spa. We have DVR surviellance. The pool... is only 4.0 feet deep at the deepest end! The spa or jacuzzi only seats 4 adults. No we do have a gate monitor that is just plain silly.

You must picture the pool is no larger than 15 ft by 15 ft.. it is more or less a large adult wading pool... just enough room for a floating chaise lounge...

I already spoke to our board. We can ask that no alcohol be in the area, but this rule was just pushed off and kicked out by homeowners vote. Our small pool area is too small to have anyone diving into 4ft or water or having a gate monitor.

I was serious when I posted that I would not walk up to our known condo drunk to inspect his cup. It puts me at risk for egged doors, keyed cars... frankly my volunteer role ends with confrontation of potential drinkers at the pool. I have lived in our cummunity for 8 years.. not once NOT ONCE has there been an alcohol related issue with rowdy peeps or a injury. Our entire pool.. is under DVR recording.

Then if you'll forgive my bluntness why did you post the question if it has already been decided.

Perhaps because I live in Texas I wouldn't put it past the atty to have had the same agenda when he sent the letter. Attorney's are people too and many do have agendas.

Nicole:

As I posted before there are times when even if there is an overwhelming No among homeowners it still may be wise for the Board to look at enacting certain rules to protect the association. Unless your documents speak differently your board still has the power to enact this rule if they feel it is in the best interest of the association.

Personally if I were in your shoes I would make sure the minutes reflected my thoughts as a board member that I feel it is in the best interest of the association to enact this rule. That would protect me from future liability if someone got hurt at the pool and was drunk and the then the boards refusal to follow the advice of their attorney was entered into the court record.