HOA Board approved yard sale - North Carolina

No, they are not responsible for the mailbox being different.

If, however, you know the woman who ran over it, which it appears you might, I would focus my energy in obtaining recompense from her for the cost of a new mailbox.

No.

It appears the wrong thing to do was to not repair your broken mailbox for 2 years.

Perhaps next time it won't take so long?

For the record, we have a gentleman in our HOA who thinks the board is "out to get him," (my quotes, not yours).

He claims because he questioned certain things of the board that now we are targeting him.

The big flaw in that logic is that he was out of compliance on several issues for quite some time. The board was unaware of them until his neighbors couldn't take it any more. So they contacted us about those issues, one of them being a bobcat stored in his backyard. The construction, yard-grading machine, not the animal.

And so we began the process of enforcement against him.

He claims that we are trying to make him get rid of it because he "questioned" why the same people keep getting elected.

Then he called us a nazi regime. (on our forums)

Then he said he was being harassed. (on our forums)

Then he accused us of selective enforcement. (on our forums)

Then he accused us of turning him in "every week" to our local zoning compliance officers. (on our forums)

It's sort of funny, in a pathetic kind of way. He "THINKS" he's being "anonymous," (he posts as someone who "knows" him but isn't him) however, the forum has a "hidden" column that the webmaster can see that shows the actual email and IP address of the poster.

Next week he gets the letter from the attorney who is moving to file an injunction against the various CC&R infractions.

He should have just removed the bobcat.

You probably should have just fixed the mailbox.

We tried to fix it but it kept dropping off. The board didn't know where we could buy another & at the time they also put in a letter that we did not have to get another one since this perticular mailbox was no longer available.

A little history about our neighborhood......

None of us went to the meetings, we just always paid our dues, no questions asked. We had a special assessment every year for the first 5 years, each were done by ballot vote & each one passed. Then in 2004 ballots were put in our mail boxes on a Thursday night & we were to have them in the vice presidents mail box by that Saturday on a special assessment vote to do landscaping to help build up the berms so the houses on the main street side would be more hidden. When the management company was contacted on that following Monday to let them know that over 35 residents never got their ballot in time to vote for whatever the reasons, the management company informed us that it didn't matter because the special assessment passed.

That was strange since the special assessment was to do landscaping on residents personal property not common areas & in order for this to have passed they needed 75% of the total membership to vote for it. The board at the time was trying to do it with a 50% vote on votes received.

That is when residents started to pay attention. We found out that minutes had never been taken since the HOA had been taken over from the builder, all the special assessments that had passed for 5 years, no record on any of them.

2005 a whole new board was voted in. They fired the management company & found a new one. One evening in August my husband & I came home & noticed that our gas lights at the neighborhood entrance were out. The following morning I called the gas company, only to find out that the gas bill had not been paid in 3 months. When I called the board to inform them, they didn't know what was going on but would find out.

We pay our dues semi-annually. The president had gotten a call from the police in Feb. 2005 because this management co. had stollen dues from a couple of diff. sub-divisions & they wanted to warn us. The board spoke to this management co. because of this warning & were told that it was just a big misunderstanding....In June we send in our second half of the annual dues.
Well guess what ..... this wonderful managent co took all our dues & went to another bank to open an account with it.

The board never made sure that this managent co. was bonded. They never told the membership until it came out in the newspaper. They knew all this was going on because the police called in Feb. They had called around & found out our electric & insurance bills had not been paid. They never told the membership. We could have at least saved the second half of our dues had they acted.

Our dues were raised & we had to do a special assessment in order to pay our bills.

2006 again, new board, this board promises to communicate with the neighborhood & everything will be up front & center.

Guess who the first one was that was out of compliance with a car in thier drive way with no tags on it for several months? The president.

When she was called on it, her answer was " So fine me. I don't care"
but turns right around & has someone else fined for having their boat in their driveway.

Our board meets once a month on a Monday because we are self managed now.

When I asked about going to meetings, I was told I would have to send an e-mail to find out the date & time. I never got a reply until the day after the meeting, saying Sorry but they just opened the e-mail.
Another resident wanted to go to a meeting & they were told they could only stay for 30 mins. & then they had to leave.

When there's more than a couple of residents wanting to attend a meeting the meeting is always cancelled & changed to another week & day other than a Monday.
Oh one more thing,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the annual meeting for the voting on the new board etc,,,,,,was always in June. There was always a good turn out.

It's been changed to December, when it's very hard for most of us to go....... there's a very low turnout in December & it's usually the boards family members that go. It's in the minutes. They do take them now.

We did try to fix it but it never stayed.
At the time the mail box was not available anymore. The board told us not to worry about it since it wasn't too bad, in a letter.

Now there's a company that has these mail boxes again & the board is now trying to say that we, along with 5 other residents in the same situation have to get a new one.

They say the letter we have is null & void.

using the analogy that the HOA is responsible would be the same as the following:

1) I had to go to work and got into an accident, either my employer or the employer of the person who hit me is at fault.

2) I had tickets to watch a baseball game and got into an accident, therefore the baseball team is responsible for issuing tickets and inviting me out.

The HOA is not at fault...

although i don't disagree with you Brad, as a work comp "case manager" in California, your first example all depends on where the accident occurred, where you were going to work from, and a few more specifics about your contract with your employer (like, are you hourly or exempt?).

Remember, California is the state that just had to pay workman's compensation for a police officer who broke his ankle while jogging on vacation in Wyoming, because the court deemed that being "physically fit" was a requirement for the officer's job, and thus, anything he did, anywhere in the world, in pursuit of that requirement was work related. Technically, he was injured on the job while on vacation enjoying a personal activity.

nothing surprises me anymore.

Tony,

Excuse me, but I think your analogy of the situation is a bit skewed. Just because the HOA advertised the yard sale (as a courtesy to the members who wanted to participate), doesn't mean anyone coming to the yard sale is a "guest" of the assn. However, if that were the case, if I come to your yard sale, that you've advertised in the local newspaper, and hit your neighbor's mailbox while trying to park in front of your home, are you responsible for replacing your neighbor's mailbox? Or, what if I crashed into another vehicle in front of your house and caused bodily harm to someone. Are you liable for my accident? Afterall, I'm your "guest". Hope you can see now why your thoughts just would never hold up in court.

Bottom line: the HOA is in no way at fault here.

Yes, you are correct.

We have no problem with replacing it as long as the others have to do the same.

The rules are for everyone & not on whether you are a friend of the "court" or not. More than 2 of the board are out of compliance. When I first asked the question I wasn't going to get into all the dirty laundry pertaining to our neighborhood. I thought it would be an easy yes or no answer. I'm glad I did because it has made me see things in different ways, which is why I went on to more of our history.

This is a great site & I'm going to give it out to the other residents during our meeting this week.

So thank you all so very much.

Bijoux,

I'm glad you see the value of this site! It's amazing how others can look at the same situation and see a different solution. I've always been one to value a different point of view; it can certainly put a different perspective on the problem at hand.

Good luck,

Mary

The person responsible for paying is the one who actually hit it but good luck getting her to pay up after two years. Replace the mailbox and be done with it.

Either you board can't make up its mind or you have misinterpreted their instructions. Ask - no demand - that they put directions to you IN WRITING as to what to do about this situation. Make them accountable to the situation.

Bijoux first of all how do you KNOW that the others didn't receive a notice? Just because they say to you that they didn't receive a notice doesn't mean the Association is not acting. Enforcement actions are supposed to be a private matter between the HOA and the homeowner UNLESS the H/O makes it public. The only way the HOA would be remotely responsible to pay for your mailbox is if they sponsored a "Break your neighbor's mailbox day." When the mailbox was first damaged and replacement wasn't possible they gave you a pass; now the box is available and they want it replaced so it meets the covenants you agreed to when you moved in.

Now you can whine and complain about the unfairness of it all you want but eventually they will begin enforcement action which will probably cost you more in the long run than if you'd just replaced the box in the first place. As my momma used to say: "Don't cut your nose off to spite your face."

And after you replace your mailbox if the others our not replaced in a reasonable time frame then you have every right to insist the BOD enforce on those H/O's as well.

Bijoux,

I agree with others that the cost of replacement of your mailbox is, or should have been, handled with the driver who hit it.

But this leads me to another issue for you (or other correspondents): Why is the HOA (Board?) "approving" yard/garage sales, as in, what business is it of theirs?

Our HOs have a joint one once every couple of years, and some HOs just have their own, personal ones, but they're always organized w/o Board input, or financing.

John,

Our HOA has a yard sale twice a year. Any homeowner who wants to participate just puts all their "junk" on their driveway on the appointed days. The HOA sets the date (same month each year), does the advertising and puts up the signs. All the HOA's in the area where I live do the same. I think the reasoning behind this is they don't want individual h/o's having yard sales on a regular basis, so the HOA organizes one for a specific date twice a year. These organized yard sales are known throughout the valley; people come from all around. Frankly, I think it's a good idea.

Bijoux,

Makes sense if it works best that way.

Glen,

Lemme explore this a bit more, as our CCRs also have a pretty strict rule against signs on Common Property. Under our CCRs, no changes are permitted w/o a majority of HOs approving same. We also have, in our ByLaws, under Board Powers and Duties: “…(and) may do such other things and acts not inconsistent with the Act, Declarations or these ByLaws which the Executive Board may be authorized to do by a resolution of the Association.”

Our Board took our operations self-managed this year. We’re still iffy about exactly what we can or cannot do by ourselves, except as to the specific powers granted. This presents a good example, as in, Do What Makes Sense for the enjoyment of Membership, or Dot Every “I” before acting?

Michele:

I would venture to say he is no different than most red blooded Americans, including myself...If there is a reason for someone else to pay for it then why should I spend my hard earned money on it. I think after reading the initial post that is all he was trying to ascertain is if the HOA should be held responsible for paying for it. In my mind no harm in ever asking anything...I think we all agree the HOA shouldn't be responsible.

Yes, Tony, we know you don't agree.

However you are simply being argumentative.

Your "logic" is more than flawed, and your position that the HOA pay half and issue a letter of apology is ludicrous.

Brad

Yes you are correct.

I like to think that I can see things from all sides.
Having said that it is hard sometimes not to be biased when you're the one in question. I asked the question to see if there were any other opinions to the situation that we are involved in.

I was not trying to vent or waste anyones time as some one else stated.

Thank you

If I didn't know better I'd say you were on the verge of breaking rule one. Stay positive and try not to take opposing opinions so personally.

It's a good thing you don't know better, then, isn't it?

You're 5 posts on this board, and all of them have been argumentative and trollish. Therefore, I'm "positive" you're a troll! Opposing opinions are one thing; ludicrous distortion of common sense for the sole purpose of inciting argument is something else altogether, and often in the tool kit for trolls!

(Insert "Have a Nice Day" smiley here.)

Tony:

I fail to see the logic in your post. The HOA announced a garage sale, they did not announce a "lets run into a mailbox" party. The HOA is not responsible for the negligent acts of others. Unless you can prove extenuating circumstances such as no street lighting (if it was still dark), potholes that would cause an accident, no traffic control devices (i.e. speed limit and stop signs), then this is a case where the homeowner should have filed a property damage claim against the driver, pure and simple.

Using your logic, I could have gone to the publicized garage sale, broken into homes or shot and killed someone and it would be the HOA's fault because I was invited for a garage sale? In that case would the entire board be brought up on murder charges?

all I can say is good luck proving the HOA at fault. Lets take it another step, lets say the HOA didn't advertise but homeowner A did. Should Homeowner A then be held responsible for damage caused by Driver B to Homeowner C's mailbox. I don't think so.

You are right, in a lawsuit it is often the deep pockets that get sued, right or wrong.

If I were hurt within the D'Backs association (i.e. Chase field) by another patron- depending on the circumstances I believe the team would have some exposure. They get sued all the time and they often settle.

I know if I were Homeowner A I'd be bummed about it and at least offer an apology. If Homeowner C decided before hand they were not going to participate due to the inherent danger associated with inattentive driving and yard sales I'd be willing to bet they would be able to get a case into court against A.

We had a spirited debate about this very issue at a board meeting. The Board decided we didn't have the right to spend association funds for anything (yard sale advertising/signage) not outlined in the documents. If this were to be done it would have to be approved unanimously by all 235 members. Never happen. We decided that we would approve a written request for temporary signage to be placed on private (not association) property. We thought that was about as much exposure we'd let the association be subjected to.

>>...come to your yard sale, that you've advertised in the local newspaper, and hit your neighbor's mailbox while trying to park in front of your home, are you responsible for replacing your neighbor's mailbox? Or, what if I crashed into another vehicle in front of your house and caused bodily harm to someone. Are you liable for my accident? Afterall, I'm your "guest"<<

Again, I'd feel horrible about the mailbox and if my guest didn't make it right, I absolutely would. Afterall, it is my neighbor who I'd like to maintain good relation and my dummy of a guest. Like it or not there is some guilt perceived through association.

If my guest hurt someone in the street I'd probably contact my attorney to determine the extent of my exposure. Are you not legally responsible for your guests if they've used alcohol?

Tony:

Not sure how the D'Backs do things but I can tell you from working in the sporting industry that teams and organizations do not settle "all the time". First they have insurance, and at that point it is up to the insurance company if they are going to pay. There are many factors, such as negligence, that goes into this. But in baseball, for example, courts have sided with clubs that patrons hit by foul balls can not recover damages from the club. This has been tried and won several times by clubs. Now, if there is a hole in a backstop net that a ball went through, that is a different story, because of negligence. But, just because the D-Backs invited you to game, and you bought a ticket on the first base line and get nailed by a foul ball, doesn't mean big bucks for you. The club is not responsible. The settling you are referring to, if it happens, is more than likely an insurance company. In my 11 years in this industry the company I have been with has never settled or paid a client for injuries or damages.

If I were homeowner A I wouldn't apologize, I did nothing wrong. I don't seriously see how they could be liable. That would be any time you invite over a friend, family member, etc., you are responsible for their actions....Won't happen. Now if you supply them with booze and get them lit up, yes, but you need to examine the extenuating circumstances.