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VirginiaP1 (Arizona)
Posts: 5
Posted:
My husband is a member of the DRC in our HOA in AZ. WE are building our home, and have had email approval of the roof color(changing from the dark tan/brown colkor in the CCR's to a more energy eff. white color). We have heard that the last meeting resulted in the HOA lawyer telling the managment company to deny our request, and we are now facing a $9oo re-stocking fee on the roof color. The entire DRC and the management company approved this color, and we are not sure why the lawyer has any say in what they have already approved.

With the high temps. here is Arizona, you would think they would encourage a lighter colored roof! I know that we as a state have the solar laws, but can't find anything about the actual color of the roof. Anyone have any ideas on how to move forward on this?

(By the way, we have driven to the highest point in the subdivision to look at the roof, and you can not even see any part of the roof!)
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
if the board approved your choices, and you have that approval in writing, and they later change their mind, then they should be presented the bill for the results of that change.

I would be sure the email truly states the decision, and did come from the proper authorities/process, not just an off hand comment from a board member in passing ("yeah, bob, it looks good. there will be no problem with the board buying off, go ahead" would not be as easy to use as proof as "The committee has approved your roof color request to be changed from X to X, per your samples and requests. You may proceed.")

VirginiaP1 (Arizona)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Actually, my husband has emails from each DRC member as well as the rep from the management company saying that the roof was fine. It was the lawyer that denied the color when it was presented as a passed motion from the DRC and management company.

Does a communities management lawyer even have a say on votes one way or the other?
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By VirginiaP1 on 06/12/2008 6:57 PM
Actually, my husband has emails from each DRC member as well as the rep from the management company saying that the roof was fine. It was the lawyer that denied the color when it was presented as a passed motion from the DRC and management company.

Does a communities management lawyer even have a say on votes one way or the other?

Quite probably the DRC or BOD does not have the authority to legally waive the covenant requiring a specific color. I agree with Brian that if they approved it originally then they should cover the re-stocking fee.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Insist on all this to be in writing. You aren't going to be able to prove a thing if you don't have the lawyer's ruling in writing. Request a copy of the minutes of the meeting, which should have all this in it.
JC3
Posts: 290
Posted:
If you have the approval of the committee, the lawyer should have no say. Why is he even involved? best wishes with this.

A little info on roofs: (this info is at least a year old, so there may be more information available now.)
Call the manufacturer's technical department and ask for the Solar Reflectivity Index (SRI) I think it’s called, of your shingle. Find out about the Energy Star rating, and comparisons to their other products and other companies. Check www.coolroof.org

From http://www.originalhomeimprovement.com/id2.html FAQ
Does the color of the shingle have an effect on roof temperature? Yes, in fact, the temperature on the surface of a roof with light-colored shingles, compared to one with dark-colored shingles, can vary by as much as 40 degrees

http://eetd.lbl.gov/HeatIsland//LEARN/Roofs

Dark materials absorb more heat from the sun--as anyone who has worn a black t-shirt on a sunny day knows. Black surfaces in the sun can become up to 70Β°F (40Β°C) hotter than the most reflective white surfaces. If those dark surfaces are roofs, some of the heat collected by the roof is transferred inside. Staying comfortable in under a dark shingle roof often means more air conditioning and higher utility bills.

The Heat Island Group has monitored buildings in Sacramento with lightly colored, more reflective roofs. We found that these buildings used up to 40% less energy for cooling than buildings with darker roofs. The Florida Solar Energy Center performed a similar study, also showing up to 40% cooling energy savings.

google cool roofing materials database
check your electric utility website for energy efficiency tips
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
If you have the approval of the committee, the lawyer should have no say. Why is he even involved?

JC the Board mav not have the authority to grant the waiver and the attorney is simply doing what he's supposed to; protecting the Association. Add to this the fact that the applicant is on the DRC and the appearance of impropriety rears its ugly head.

While it can be argued that the lighter shingle is more energy efficient I do not believe they are covered under Arizona's renewable energy act. The best thing to do is ask the BOD why the approval was rescinded and ask them to reconsider

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Virginia,

My first thought was to wonder why the attorney would be getting involved in a decision of the A/C. However, after re-reading your initial post, I noted you stated the roof color is specified in the CCRs. The attorney probably advised denying the request for a different color because to do so would be a violation of the CCRs. The fact that you had already received approval for the roof color leads me to believe the board should be resp. for the additional re-stocking fee because it was their error to grant approval. I would suggest a face-to-face meeting with board at which time you can present copies of the approval(s) received and ask for reimb. of the restocking fee. You can also hint at filing a complaint with the Office of Admin Hearings which would cost the assn a lot more than $900 if they lost the case.
VirginiaP1 (Arizona)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Yes, my husband is on the DRC. However, he was in no way connected to this vote. He submitted it as any other
homeowner would, was not present during discussions and was not there for the vote so that there were no improprities.

One of my "arguments" with this decision is that there are many other homes that have light color rooves on them.... not the dark color as stated in the CCRs. We also have a clause about home colors being of natural desert colors, and yet one home is a concrete grey color... almost as if the stucco was not painted.

I can understand the deires of a person not wanting to look out at their view and see a huge white roof, but no part of our roof is in view of anyone in the subdivion (flat roof with parapets all the way around), and the grey house is in view of everyone.

Not only that, but the LRV numbers are insane. The dark roof has a number that differs by almost 40% in energy efficency. With the temps hitting not only 100 degrees but into the 110 degree range, I just don't understand why we are subjected to this kind of thinking.

I do have the emails printed out, as well as photo's of the other rooves and the one house that is grey. I also have the photos from the top of the subdivision that show our roof line is not in view. All you can see are the house walls and the parapets.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Virginia:

Here is my opinion for better or worse. The Board and the DRC made a gross error...they should have asked for and received an opinion from the attorney prior to responding to your request. They did not and approved this request which led you (and any other reasonable and sane person) to order the roof for your home because you had followed procedure and thought you were fine. Now they are trying to change the rules and not let you put up the roof you asked for and was granted permission for because they forgot to ask their lawyer before responding. I see two options:

1) They need to live with their goof

or

2) They pay the restocking fee for the materials you have

Now, fast forward to reality, I highly doubt they will admit a mistake or pay the restocking fee. The question becomes how much do you want to fight this. I would send them a letter asking them to reconsider, outline in your letter the procedure for getting architectural items approved and how you followed the procedure. Also include and reference the approval letters (emails) you have and reference the $900 you will have to pay as a result of something you did no wrong with. Be nice, be courteous, ask them to resonsider, or ask them to pay the fee. If they refuse, that is when you will have to decide whether you want to spend the money to fight this further.

One option that may not be expensive is to take them to small claims court to seek your $900 back if they refuse, rather than get in a protracted legal argument. See if the People's Court is open...at any rate, good luck.
JC3
Posts: 290
Posted:
Doesn't Arizona have an office that a homeowner can appeal to if they have a dispute with the board? I think Brian mentioned it a time or two.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
not this brian. Last i knew, there were calls for an ombudsman's position in Az, but nothing had passed yet. Az created some tougher laws in 2003 or so, but they hadn't created an office to handle HOA affairs when i left the state. SOmeone still in AZ will have to answer with a current event.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
and, of course, two minutes later, my search returns this result:

In September 2007, legislation took effect (in Arizona) allowing people to file their HOA grievances with the Office of Administrative Hearings instead of in Superior Court. The intention was to save homeowners and their associations thousands in legal fees while streamlining the resolution of such cases.
For a $550 filing fee β€” $2,000 for a petition involving multiple allegations β€” homeowners can plead their own cases without an attorney in front of an administrative law judge. In some instances, respondents are required to reimburse petitioners' filing fees, and in still others, HOAs may be required to reimburse the fees and pay a fine if they are found guilty of wrongdoing.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
JC & Brian,

Someone in AZ did respond -- ME! :-) However, my msg was apparently overlooked.

Yes AZ does have a venue for filing a complaint. Which is why I suggested mentioning the possibility of filing a complaint with the OAH.
VirginiaP1 (Arizona)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Thank you all for your ideas.

In the interest of getting our roof on before it rained, we had to go with a built up roof painted a light tan.

The good thing is that we spent half our budget on it and we are now weather tight, however it is not as energy minded as we wanted and will need more care than the membrane roof we wanted.

The HOA board was very upset with the management company's treatment and has expressed their discontent
to the reps. boss. I don't expect much though.

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