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BrianB
(California)

Posts:1646

05/15/2008 3:01 PM
thanks michele... basically, my "source" is the Code of Federal Regulations... peruse it and you will find that there are no federal privacy laws pertaining to the release of information of this type to shareholders within a corporation...

BruceF1
(Connecticut)

Posts:499

05/15/2008 3:20 PM
Posted By MicheleD on 05/15/2008 1:24 PM Just curious, but how can you provide a "source reference" for something that doesn't exist? You can provide a source reference by a recognized authority that states that someting doesn't exist. Otherwise, if I claim that something does not exist, that is only my opinion. It may still exist, I just may not be aware of it.

PatR
(Florida)

Posts:132

05/15/2008 3:34 PM
So Joe... See are thinking of sending out a newsletter letting people know that since the economy is so bad, the BOD is taking the following measures to save money, short of cutting services: Turning off the pool heater Putting timers on lights Using energy efficiant bulbs whatever We can also let members know that the organization is currently in arrears for XX amount of dollors due to foreclosures and nonpayment of dues. If they are members of this organization, and therefore privy to the info, they can ask to see the list of names and amounts due. We do give a financial report at the monthly meetings, but we will reach about 180 more people with email. Please give me any ideas and suggestions or corrections you all might have... Thanks Pat

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1646

05/15/2008 6:11 PM
well, let's see bruce.. The Federal privacy act of 1974 doesn't cover this. Nor do any subsequent acts or regulations built upon it. The credit reporting act doesn't apply, nor does the CHild protection/privacy act (online privacy act). Neither does the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. US Code 552a doesn't apply either. Neither does the Family Educational RIghts and privacy act. Nor does the Compilation of State and Federal Privacy Laws mention anything about HOAs or business/corporation privacy. HIPPA doesn't apply either. However, if you know of a law that does apply, please let me know so i can add that to my database/research on the subject.

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:1893

05/16/2008 3:18 AM
IAW the AZ HOA Open Meeting Law, discussion of ". . . personal, health or financial information about an individual member of the association. . ." is one of the causes for a closed session. As I stated b/4, it's my personal opinion this information should not be publicized by the assn. If and when a lien is filed or a foreclosure is entered into, only then does it become public information. As another poster noted, the assn's info may not even be accurate. I've heard of many cases where the assn said a member was delinquent when in fact they were not. When I was Treas. I had sent a late notice to a member and it turned out that the check had been lost in the mail so the member wasn't delinquent after all. IMO, it's just not a good idea!

PatR
(Florida)

Posts:132

05/16/2008 6:04 AM
oh boy.... If the check is "lost in the mail", it was not paid...If it's the first time, then, you waive the fees and move on. We are seeing new names on the list, which is a sign that more and more people are in finincial trouble. But... we have those who are telling us if they sell that house, then they will pay. Well tell the electric and water co. that. We can't pay the bills on couda shouds whouda... We need to find a way to tell people that this is not a frivolous bill...We can't run the association, unless you pay your dues.

BruceF1
(Connecticut)

Posts:499

05/16/2008 7:24 AM
Posted By BrianB on 05/15/2008 6:11 PM well, let's see bruce.. The Federal privacy act of 1974 doesn't cover this. Nor do any subsequent acts or regulations built upon it. The credit reporting act doesn't apply, nor does the CHild protection/privacy act (online privacy act). Neither does the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. US Code 552a doesn't apply either. Neither does the Family Educational RIghts and privacy act. Nor does the Compilation of State and Federal Privacy Laws mention anything about HOAs or business/corporation privacy. HIPPA doesn't apply either. However, if you know of a law that does apply, please let me know so i can add that to my database/research on the subject. Brian, First I must complement you on the thoroughness of your research. As I said, I feel I learn more with a healthy discussion that includes references. Although you present some very compelling arguments, I am still not entirely convinced that some of the laws you mentioned do not apply. The Fair Debt Collection Practices Act does prohibit certain acts: [Section 806(3) prohibits the "publication of a list of consumers who allegedly refuse to pay debts," except to report the items to a "consumer reporting agency," as defined in the Fair Credit Reporting Act or to a party otherwise authorized to receive it under that Act. Section 806(4) prohibits the "advertisement for sale of any debt to coerce payment of the debt." 1. Shaming prohibited. These provisions are designed to prohibit debt collectors from "shaming" a customer into payment, by publicizing the debt.] The above taken from: http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/commentary.shtm#806 I also do not necessarily agree that the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act does not apply. With respect to the FDCPA, HOAs are not specifically mentioned in the definitions as being regarded as either a creditor or a debt collector. Thus, I can accept as an understandable argument that the FDCPA doesn't apply. However, neither are they excluded. In my opinion, the fact that an entity is not mentioned in the definition is not always a sufficient basis to say that the law doesn't apply. I find it hard to believe that lawmakers can think of every conceivable entity or possible application when laws are drafted. I believe those are matters that remain for the courts to decide. As you know, our legal system is based on English common law, and lawyers cite prior case decisions when presenting their arguments to the court. I am not aware of any court cases involving alleged violations of the FDCPA (specifically, Section 806 (3))by HOAs. Perhaps you have heard of some. I can only say that a law prohibiting the publication of debt information and the shaming of debtors exits; whether or not it applys to HOAs is a matter yet to be decided, but I hold that, until it is, the possibility is there. As for the publication of a list of delinquent accounts by some corporations, I would need to know more about the circumstances. The lists could include the names of corporations, which do not have the same protections as individuals, and they could include the names of individuals where the delinquent status of the account is already a matter of public record. The lists could include other individuals as well, but I don't believe the two instances I just mentioned would be a violation of any law. There may be others.

JosephW
(Michigan)

Posts:735

05/16/2008 7:27 AM
I've periodically done a seminar on "Communications for Associations" and one of the things I tend to get worked up about is that among the many poor messages sent to owners from the board, the budget package is usually among the worst. In the current economic problems, the budget is probably the single most important communication that will be sent this year. (Pat, the items below would apply to what you want to do also). Standard budget package consists of a cover letter that basically says we did our best to keep the assessments from going up too much….please don’t hurt us, we have to pay them too. Attached is a spreadsheet that has only one number that everyone looks at and that’s the total. Most owners can’t divide that by the number of units, months and then apply their unit’s percentage value, so their first reaction is to feel like they have to pay the lion’s share of that outrageous number. Stop doing this. Your budget should tell a story. A story about why the owner made a great decision in choosing to live in your community. And it was a great decision. Tell them about the volume savings on items like lawn care, snow removal, roofs, roads, etc. Show them how cheap it is to have the grass cut (don't say you're spending $20,000 for a lawn contract, but that they're only paying $8 per cutting). Tell them how wonderful it is that someone else takes care of checking things out, then finding contractors, then watching them, then checking their work…..all things they would have to do themselves if they lived in a single family home. But they didn’t want to do those things anymore so you’ve arranged to take care of them. What a bunch of great people you are (and the manager too, of course). Put the numbers in the middle of paragraphs that explain them and explain in a way that means something to them. Don’t say you’re going to spend $200,000 on roofs, tell them you’re putting a new roof on their home, without them having to do anything, for about $X,000, a fantastic savings over the normal roofing price. You have a problem in your budget this year that caused a major increase. Go after it right up front. Tell them the problem, what you’re going to do to resolve it and why it’s a good thing. This year, with unit's not paying their assessments and others having to make it up, point out what would happen if nobody did anything. Their house value would probably fall further with no one keeping things up. Tell them what you're doing to protect their interest and invite them to meet with you to discuss ways the association as a group can work to cut costs in trying economic times. Use photographs to make your points. A picture is worth a thousand words so use that digital camera that you’ve been trying to figure out. Do you send out payment coupons or monthly/quarterly statements? Why not include some coupons from local stores, restaurants or services. "We're trying to help save you a little money". (Also, the companies may help pay for the mailing) Use "We" when writing to remind them that board members are also owners, not some disembodied group elected to make their lives harder. You're all in it together. Again, reinforce their decision to live there as a good decision. Keep the message positive, even if the news isn't. Joe

Joseph West Official HOATalk.com Sponsor Community Associations Network, LLC www.CommunityAssociations.net *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

PatR
(Florida)

Posts:132

05/16/2008 7:33 AM
Thanks so much Joe, I am going to send your suggestions to the rest of the BOD. Keep it coming folks! Pat

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1646

05/16/2008 7:56 AM
Bruce: you raise some points, here's my rebuttal/reasonings: The fair credit reporting act exempts communication of ...information among persons related by common ownership or affiliated by corporate control; or communication of other information among persons related by common ownership or affiliated by corporate control, if it is clearly and conspicuously disclosed to the consumer that the information may be communicated among such persons... So even if the law might apply (which i do not believe it does), there is an exemption automatically granted for intercompany information. The fair debt collection act has a scope limited to third party collectors of debts. So unless your HOA is running a sideline business of collecting unpaid debts for other parties, these laws don't apply either. Gramm-Leach-Bliley applies to financial institutions. Again, unless your HOA is selling financial services, making mortgages or loans, offering finacial advice for money, etc., these provisions do not apply. In general, most privacy laws cover information sharing between companies, not inside a company, the HOA's first line of defense. Even if the HOA publishes the information in a public venue (which i have repeatedly said may not be a wise choice), in general there is little to prevent the publication of TRUTH by a company about criminals/thieves/deadbeats who have stolen from them. Granted, the practice can bite the HOA in the butt (truth can be a hard line to follow, and there are legal risks if the HOA makes even a tiny mistake), but it can be done. Libel/Slander laws are probably more applicable to these cases. I agree with you Bruce that courts can interpret as they wish: I once had a judge tell me ON RECORD "I don't care what the law says, in my court, I decide". However, for this argument, i am playing "strict constitutionalist", and argueing from the side that when the legislators write the laws, they do so with knowledge and expertise (i know, a false hope). If they had INTENDED to make something illegal, they would have when writing it. Thus, the law stands as written, until we have exact intent of the lawmakers to prove different. And for Mary, you are correct: AZ law says that homeowners financial discussions can be reason for a closed session. However, the law does not REQUIRE that the session be closed for such discussions, just that it can be. HOA's are legally allowed by that law to discuss HO's personal financial matters in open session, should they wish. If the legislature wanted otherwise, they could have written "must be" rather than "can" into the legislation.

JosephW
(Michigan)

Posts:735

05/16/2008 7:58 AM
Bruce, Brian From a Q&A regarding assessment collections: "FDCPA provides a specific exemption for any creditor attempting to collect its own debts. This exemption would apply to any association collecting on assessments due by its members, and would permit the association to publish the names of delinquent members in its newsletter. Take extreme care in doing this, however. Make sure the information you publish is limited to members against whom liens or lawsuits have been filed that are a matter of public record. Do not specify the amount owed by any delinquent member. And, indicate clearly that the member was delinquent as of the date of publication, or on some set date prior to publication. As a final note, it is important to point out that there are conflicting court decisions from jurisdictions around the country regarding the role of association attorneys and managers in the debt-collection process. Some decisions have found that, although an association could be exempted, its attorney or manager might be included in the definition of debt collector" Here are some of the cases contributing to the mess: Minnesota: Cohen v. Beachside Two - I Homeowners Association The article can be found here: http://www.hjlawfirm.com/newsroom/viewarticle.php?id=306&topicid=24&packageid=7 The Cohen case involved a community association Board that printed in its Board minutes information related to unpaid assessments by an unidentified unit owner. Based partly on the actions of the Board, a unit owner commenced a lawsuit alleging various tort claims against the association. In the court action, the unit owner alleged that the Board's distribution of Board minutes gave rise to defamation, negligent infliction of emotional distress, and invasion of privacy, among various other claims. The Court ultimately ruled in favor of the association and dismissed the claims, but only after the case spent a substantial amount of time in litigation. The Court's decision provides an opportunity for associations to review the law in this area, as well as their own collection policies and procedures. Davis Lake Community Association, Inc. v. Feldmann, No. COA99-639, N.C. App. Ct., June 6, 2000. A North Carolina appeals court determined that a community association's attempt to collect delinquent assessments constitutes unfair debt collection. but: Reid v. Ayers, No. COA99-790, North Carolina App. Ct, No. COA99-790, June 6, 2000 Although the provisions of the North Carolina Debt Collection Act appear to apply to an attorney's efforts to collect past due assessments, attorneys are exempt from the application of the Act. Fuller v. Becker & Poliakoff, P.A., 192 F. Supp. 2d 1361 (M.D. Fla. 2002) Maintenance assessments constitute a debt because they create a payment obligation. Furthermore, the use of false representation and deceptive measures to collect debts violates the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. Dikun v. Streich, 369 F. Supp. 2d 781, E. Dist. Va. 2005 A law firm potentially violated the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act by not verifying a debt, failing to cease collection when notified that the owner was disputing the debt, communicating directly with the owner instead of with her counsel, and falsely representing the compensation it could be paid. Edstrom v. All Services and Processing, No. CO4-1514 BZ, U.S. Dist. Ct., N. Dist. Cal., Feb. 22, 2005 A notice sent on behalf of a California homeowner association to collect past-due assessments, interest, and collection fees violated state and federal fair debt collection practices acts. Meisner v. Alexander, No. 91DA5078-AV, Oakland County Circuit Court, Dec. 20,1991 Court rules that Fair Debt Collection Practices Act does not apply to collection of a condominium association's special assessment. In an appeal from a lawsuit alleging that the attorney for Wabeek Oaks Association ("association") violated the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act ("Act") in attempting to collect a disputed special assessment, a Michigan circuit court, acting as an appellate court, ruled that the act did not apply because the assessment was not a debt within the meaning of the Act. Vosatka v. Wolin-Levin, Inc., Case No.94-C-4129, U.S.D.C., N.D. Ill., July 29, 1995 Letters notifying a condominium unit owner that he had failed to pay assessments and related fines and fees are not required to comply with the disclosure and validation notice requirements of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. and so on - Joe

Joseph West Official HOATalk.com Sponsor Community Associations Network, LLC www.CommunityAssociations.net *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

BruceF1
(Connecticut)

Posts:499

05/16/2008 8:12 AM
Joe, Thank you for your very enlightening post. It's not surprising to read that there are conflicting court decisions. I think this shows how easily there can be differing opinions when it comes to the applicability of some laws. When it comes to matters such as this, I tend to be cautious and tread on the more likely safe side. Otherwise, one runs the risk of costly litigation with an uncertain outcome; probably not worth the amount to be collected.

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1646

05/16/2008 8:48 AM
Good points Joe, and wise advice Bruce: the risk of litigation is always present (see my comments on libel/slander). Joe, you are very correct in that an association made of volunteer board members can do things that a professional (lawyer/property manager) cannot. The laws change dramatically once you bring in a third party. For example, as a president, i could call a member at home after 9 pm and ask abotu his debt to the HOA. my management company could not. Once you start collecting debt for someone ELSE (a PM, Lawyer, etc.), you fall into many of the laws we just discussed.

BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:1742

05/17/2008 6:23 AM
Interesting discussion, I don't have the time and not the desire right now to do any research. However, back to the original question if I as a member of my association wanted to see names of those people who are deliquent and presented my records request am I legally entitled to that information? I believe the answer is yes, as a shareholder in my community I believe I am entitled to that if I ask. I am one of the staunchest supporters of never posting or printing delinquent dues information even in just community owned newsletters or websites.

BruceF1
(Connecticut)

Posts:499

05/17/2008 7:00 AM
Brad, Interesting question. From the discussion I would say that the board could legally disclose that information to you. However, the board might feel that, although such disclosure is legal, it may not be advisable to do so because of possible liability issues that could arise. So, I guess the question remains, if they refuse to provide you with that information, would you have a legal right to demand it? Perhaps you would, but, I think it's anybody's guess, in light of some of the court decisions posted, how it would ultimately turn out. One question I would ask is, what do you intend to do if the board supplied you with that information?

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2511

05/17/2008 7:16 AM
Brad, Bruce and every other poster. This really is a quandry. The Florida Statutes say that any member has the right to inspect ANY AND ALL association records EXCEPT pending or any ongoing litigation.(there is more to this) Now here is where it cannot be a simple yes or no answer as to the inspection of these records. Would or are any of the delinquencies or forclosures going to be acted legally upon? Probably yes, therfore they would not be open to inspection by the membership.I have issue with members who want to know some of this information anyhow. Why do they feel the need to know this and when they find out, what will they do with the names of delinquencies? I think that the membership has the right to know what amount is not being paid as a whole but to have individual members names and amounts, still has me worried.

BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:1742

05/17/2008 8:13 AM
Bruce: that would be my question to, what is the intended use of that information. I think a waiver would need to be supplied to the person stating this is confidential information to the HOA and any dissemination is strictly prohibited. I can't see anyone ever suing to get those records, but I guess anything is possible.

BruceF1
(Connecticut)

Posts:499

05/17/2008 9:12 AM
Donna, In answer to another thread, I happened to review a bill that was before the Connecticut legislature regarding HOAs this year. The bill did not pass. However, an interesting point. The bill did contain a prohibition on releasing the administrative and financial details regarding any unit to anyone other than the unit owner. So, had the bill passed, the board would have been prohibited from providing a unit owner with a list of delinquent accounts.

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2511

05/17/2008 9:24 AM
Bruce, Too bad that did not pass because I still have concerns about privacy issues to some degree. The big deal to me is what are the intentions of the person making the request. Yes, to a point, every member should know that there are arrears in dues and assessments but until it does become public record, I feel that my neighbors should not know that I am having a financial problem. Now if this is just a slacker who continuelly just ignores their financial responsibilities to the association, then I might feel different. So what really are his intentions to know all of the delinquencies? Unless he is a Board member or the Treasurer, I see no genuine need for this information other than noseiness.

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:1893

05/17/2008 9:34 AM
I'm with Donna on this one. AZ has a similar law but it goes one step further in covering financial records of members. However the AZ law says this info "may" be withheld. So, if the board wants to provide it to a member they can, but I doubt any board would, that is if they listen to the advice of their attorney. But, as Donna said, why would a member want this info? Some people are just nosy by nature and think they should know everything. I say they don't have a need to know. The number of delinquencies and the amount is all the members need to know. There is absolutely no reason they have to know the names of the members who are delinquent. Someone, please, prove me wrong!!!

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2511

05/17/2008 9:41 AM
It won't be me Mary.

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1646

05/17/2008 11:37 AM
devil's advocate: one reason that I may want to know about the financial details of my "neighbors" is that they are more than my neighbors, they are my business partners in a (hopefully) successful corporation. As a shareholder, i want to know if my fellow business partners are contributing as they promised, if they are doing what they agreed, contractually, to do. they aren't neighbors, they are business partners.

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2511

05/17/2008 11:42 AM
Brian, So if you are given the names of delinquent members, what would-- YOU-- do with it?

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:1893

05/17/2008 11:58 AM
Posted By BrianB on 05/17/2008 11:37 AM devil's advocate: one reason that I may want to know about the financial details of my "neighbors" is that they are more than my neighbors, they are my business partners in a (hopefully) successful corporation. As a shareholder, i want to know if my fellow business partners are contributing as they promised, if they are doing what they agreed, contractually, to do. they aren't neighbors, they are business partners. So Brian, putting the shoe on the other foot. How would you like your neighbor knowing you are delinquent? Don't know about you, but I don't go shouting my personal business -- good, bad or indifferent -- to everyone in the neighborhood. BTW, members of an HOA are NOT shareholders as you continually refer them to being. HOAs do not issue shares of stock. As you will note by reading your gov docs we are referred to as "members" not "shareholders". If you own stock in a corporation do you regularly receive information concerning the personal finances of all the other stockholders? I've owned stock in various corps for over 40 years and have never received any such info and would be selling that stock immediately if asked any questions about my personal finances.

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1575

05/17/2008 12:52 PM
Mary, I have to disagree with you on this one. Homeowner members may not be "share"holders in the stock-holding sense of the definition, but they are most certainly "stakeholders" and have a "share," "stake," or vested interest, or whatever other splitting hairs definition you want to give them, in the whole of the organization.

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:1893

05/17/2008 2:05 PM
Micbele, "Stakeholder" is an interesting term and is used to identify all those interested in the same issue. At the legislature all the lobbyists and other interested parties of a particular piece of legislation are called stakeholders. In actuality the word "stakeholder" means the person holding the money; money being the "stake". A shareholder in a corporation is not the same as a member in an HOA even though the HOA may be a corporation. For one thing, a shareholder can get out if the price of the stock takes a nose dive; a member of an HOA is there for as long as he owns the property. I understand what you're saying, Michele. All the members of an HOA have the same "vested interest". But, IMO, they are not "shareholders" in the true meaning of the word, as Brian likes to say. And I certainly don't regard the people living on my cul-de-sac as my investment partners; they're my neighbors! If they're behind in paying their assessments, that's between them and the Board.

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1575

05/17/2008 2:18 PM
Again, I respectfully disagree on your connotation of "stakeholder." A "stake" in an organization does not even have to have a monetary "stake" or financial interest in the outcomes of the organization. Employees come to mind. Members of the HOA have a vested interest, a "stake," tied to a financial outcome of the organization. My HOA requires a budget to function. Their ability to make budget is directly impacted by whether or not my neighbors are providing their financial stakes in the organization. I would be very interested in whether and which of my neighbors, fellow "stakeholders," are not providing the funds available to the organization in order for the organization to properly maintain my and their vested interests, or "stakes," in the organization.

SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:68

05/17/2008 4:10 PM
I love JosephW's idea on homeowners signing a document regarding the confidentiality of delinquent information. I'm going to bring that idea to our board at next week's meeting. We (board members) get a copy of the delinquency report just before the meeting by mail and while there haven't been any problems, it would be a good way to remind everyone of privacy considerations. I'd also add something about destroying the report via shredding after we're done with it, less a child, spouse, etc. gets ahold of it and accidently (or accidently on purpose) gives the information to an unauthorized person.

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1646

05/17/2008 4:53 PM
mary, just because it is fun to stretch my mind a bit, and you raise such good points... I say shareholder because: My HOA (former) had 40 shares for sale. I bought one, 39 people bought the other 39. Together, we owned all the shares of the Tempe Royal Estates HOA, a privately traded not for profit company. With my share came the right to vote, and the obligation to pay assessments to support the corporation. I received dividends in the form of an increase in property value (at least, that's what many HOA supporters say), so while the corporation didn't cut me a dividend "check", they did increase the value of my share every year. Like any other corporation, I eventually decided it was in my best interest to sell my share/stock, so i did... and i recouped my initial share price plus a large dividend check, this one i could cash at a bank! as for the argument on why i should know about my fellow investor's lack of investment: i really don't have a great answer for that. As an investor, it seems wise for me to know if people in the company I am giving my money are stealing from it, but that's a weak argument. THe best I can say is that as an investor, looking at the books at the level of detail that would show me who isn't paying, how long they have been in arrears, and what the board is doing about it seems to be a smart fiduciary responsibility. More or less, the only arguement i have is that knowing who pays and who doesn't will help me figure out if my board is doing their job correctly. However, a good board with good communication should be able to show all interested owners that kind of information without disclosing names. the better the board and their communications, the less likely it would be that any personal information would ever have to be known by anyone outside the board. all debts are collected, all fees are up to date, etc. Lastly, as for "what would i do if i knew": It all depends. I might offer the neighbor some help, or advice. Perhaps i know they have some problems, and my helping hand here or there could be enough to get them over a hump. Maybe i could mow their yard once a month, so they have $20 for the association dues rather than give it to a lawn service. Or i trim their bushes out front, so the fines stop accumulating. or, perhaps i would STOP helping them, if i found out that they were using the pool without paying, i might stop giving their kids free swim lessons, etc.. I must admit, mostly it is simply prurient interest, to know who is stealing from the rest of us. i am human, after all.

JosephW
(Michigan)

Posts:735

05/17/2008 6:45 PM
I've only seen requests for delinquency information for three reasons: 1) During a disputed election 2) If an owner believes a board member is delinquent and shouldn't be on the board or voting 3) If an owner is mad at a neighbor and trying to dig up some dirt. I would prefer it if the personal financial info were not made available, and like the state laws that protect the privacy of the individual. However, someone has to certify the first issue, that all voters were eligible to vote as defined in the documents, and it shouldn't be the board or people running for the board. And the board itself has to ensure the second issue (we've seen a number of instances on this board where board members were delinquent and the rest of the board chose to ignore it. Any state law or document provision that deals with the individual owners' financial privacy should have some language dealing with these two issues. Joe

Joseph West Official HOATalk.com Sponsor Community Associations Network, LLC www.CommunityAssociations.net *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

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