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BillG6
(Florida)

Posts:19

05/15/2008 7:19 AM
Can a Homeowner residing in a HOA request from their office a complete list of members/homeowners who are delinquent as well those members/homeowners who are in current legal status??? In addition, where in FLA 720 can I find this information. Thank you!

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2511

05/15/2008 7:44 AM
Bill, Below is from Fl Statute 720;303, which is how you must request that information and how the association is to provide you with it. I myself do have issues with providing what you are requesting because some of this may go to litigation. Your association may feel the same way and in that case, YOU MAY NOT GET ALL OF WHAT YOU WANT TO REVIEW. The new HOA bill that Gov Crist has signed and goes into effect on July 1st, will require any document inspection by a member, be sent written by certified mail. (5) INSPECTION AND COPYING OF RECORDS.--The official records shall be maintained within the state and must be open to inspection and available for photocopying by members or their authorized agents at reasonable times and places within 10 business days after receipt of a written request for access. This subsection may be complied with by having a copy of the official records available for inspection or copying in the community. If the association has a photocopy machine available where the records are maintained, it must provide parcel owners with copies on request during the inspection if the entire request is limited to no more than 25 pages. (a) The failure of an association to provide access to the records within 10 business days after receipt of a written request creates a rebuttable presumption that the association willfully failed to comply with this subsection. (b) A member who is denied access to official records is entitled to the actual damages or minimum damages for the association's willful failure to comply with this subsection. The minimum damages are to be $50 per calendar day up to 10 days, the calculation to begin on the 11th business day after receipt of the written request. (c) The association may adopt reasonable written rules governing the frequency, time, location, notice, records to be inspected, and manner of inspections, but may not impose a requirement that a parcel owner demonstrate any proper purpose for the inspection, state any reason for the inspection, or limit a parcel owner's right to inspect records to less than one 8-hour business day per month. The association may impose fees to cover the costs of providing copies of the official records, including, without limitation, the costs of copying. The association may charge up to 50 cents per page for copies made on the association's photocopier. If the association does not have a photocopy machine available where the records are kept, or if the records requested to be copied exceed 25 pages in length, the association may have copies made by an outside vendor and may charge the actual cost of copying. The association shall maintain an adequate number of copies of the recorded governing documents, to ensure their availability to members and prospective members. Notwithstanding the provisions of this paragraph, the following records shall not be accessible to members or parcel owners: 1. Any record protected by the lawyer-client privilege as described in s. 90.502 and any record protected by the work-product privilege, including, but not limited to, any record prepared by an association attorney or prepared at the attorney's express direction which reflects a mental impression, conclusion, litigation strategy, or legal theory of the attorney or the association and was prepared exclusively for civil or criminal litigation or for adversarial administrative proceedings or which was prepared in anticipation of imminent civil or criminal litigation or imminent adversarial administrative proceedings until the conclusion of the litigation or adversarial administrative proceedings. 2. Information obtained by an association in connection with the approval of the lease, sale, or other transfer of a parcel. 3. Disciplinary, health, insurance, and personnel records of the association's employees. 4. Medical records of parcel owners or community residents.

BruceF1
(Connecticut)

Posts:499

05/15/2008 7:49 AM
I would say no, that is privileged information. I see nothing wrong in making available the number of homeowners who are delinquent or the mangnitude of the delinquencies. However, knowing who the individuals are is no one's business except for those whose responsibility it is to collect the delinquent accounts. There may even be, in some jurisdictions, privacy laws that prohibit the dissemination of such information.

ClaudiaH
(Kentucky)

Posts:27

05/15/2008 8:33 AM
I disagree. We post that information on our website for all our homeowners to view if they choose. Dues go towards a collective pot to pay for services which benefit every single homeowner in the neighborhood. People who don't pay are putting a financial burden on the rest of the homeowners. They absolutely have the right to know who these folks are. Besides that, who said delinquent payers are owed some sort of confidentiality? If anything, exposure can be used to help motivate them to pay.... as all the rest of the neighborhood has already done. If the government can report who hasn't paid their taxes, I don't see why private organizations should be any different.

BruceF1
(Connecticut)

Posts:499

05/15/2008 9:47 AM
Claudia, Maybe some homeowner just hasn't yet sued your association for disclosing private information. There are federal privacy laws and many states have even more stringent ones. It doesn't matter that your HOA believes that delinquent homeowners do not deserve any confidentiality, what matters is what the government says its citizens have a right to expect. Your HOA is not a government agency and their delinquencies are not necessarily a matter of public record. Once you have formally filed a lien against a property, it then becomes a matter of public record and you could probably then publish those delinquencies.

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1304

05/15/2008 10:07 AM
Bill our county seat has a newspaper whose primary purpose is to publish legal notices and I know there is a similar paper in the next county perhaps there is one in your county. The county website also lists everyone who has filed a lien or foreclosure and is keyword searchable, type in the name of the HOA and you can find every legal action we've taken. Or type in a street and you can find out what your neighbors are up to if you so desire.

SusanW1
(Michigan)

Posts:1812

05/15/2008 10:10 AM
These delinquent funds are legally owed to the HOA - however the names of the persons owing are, IMHO, not to be released to other residents. The homeowner DOES have the right to know what the Board is doing to collect on these outstandings. If the Board has a written policy or other guidelines to follow, then that should be given to the person inquiring. So you may say: $10,000 is total outstanding; $5,000 in in foreclosure or lein status; $2500 is in written by attorney notice, and $2500 is in registered mail - 3rd-notice-to-the-resident stage. I think that most folks just want to know WHAT the Board is doing about outstandings. But you can always ask this fellow why he wants the NAMES of people.

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1304

05/15/2008 10:12 AM
Claudia I agree with Bruce and if you list the names I wouldn't until the lien or foreclosure was filed. As you yourself admitted in another posting mistakes can happen and I wouldn't want to paint someone who was the victim of a treasurer posting a payment to the wrong account or a simple oversight with same brush as a deadbeat.

ClaudiaH
(Kentucky)

Posts:27

05/15/2008 10:34 AM
Interesting to note. I'll do some research and bring this up at our next meeting. Fortunately, the only one we have listed at the moment, is the same guy who I filed a lien against, so we're covered.

ClaudiaH
(Kentucky)

Posts:27

05/15/2008 10:35 AM
Bruce, I'll have to save the task of googling the heck out of privacy laws to figure out where the homeowners are protected for some other day. As it stands, our only dues outstanding are from the same person who a lien is currently filed against. But this is good information to research for future non-payers.

JohnK3
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:317

05/15/2008 10:55 AM
Our Board (including me) adopted the following informal guidelines: Any issues regarding delinquencies are handled between the Prez and the Owner. The contents of communications between the Prez and Owner are not shared with the rest of the Board, except as to status. The Board NEVER discusses these matters with other Owners, nor would we disclose any information about delinquencies unless ordered to by a court of competent jurisdiction. Membership appreciates this confidentiality, even when queries from Curious Minds are brushed off as inappropriate. The result? We currently have zero delinquencies and our most recent 2nd Q dues were virtually all paid at least a few weeks before the 30 day penalty window opened. Treat folks with respect and sometimes they return the gesture.

PatR
(Florida)

Posts:132

05/15/2008 10:59 AM
So...I am in Florida, and our next newsletter is going to list the names of those members who are in arrears, and how much they owe, and that's legal? I, for one, think that people play the game for 60 days, cause there is only the late fee charge from the association.....If everyone plays that game, we'll be broke in no time. Pat

ClaudiaH
(Kentucky)

Posts:27

05/15/2008 11:11 AM
John, That sounds great, if it works. I don't think it would in my subdivision. What has not worked in the past, are treasurers who have allowed home owners to repeatedly bend the rules regarding paying. The board has made it clear that if anyone needs extra time, to please let one of us know and we'll be flexible. We absolutely would. But never in the almost 10 year history of this board, has one homeowner ever come forward. In the past, numerous warnings have been given for many months, including phone calls, emails, home visits, etc. Anything to get the homeowner to comply before filing a lien. I made it clear when I became treasurer, that late payments would be liened, no exceptions. This year we have 1 late payment out of 100, the least this board has ever had this close to the due date. I believe automating the process works better than holding their hands. I really don't think the chronic late payer would care if we put his name in lights. He's just not going to pay on time.

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1646

05/15/2008 11:16 AM
Posted By ClaudiaH on 05/15/2008 10:35 AM Bruce, I'll have to save the task of googling the heck out of privacy laws to figure out where the homeowners are protected for some other day. As it stands, our only dues outstanding are from the same person who a lien is currently filed against. But this is good information to research for future non-payers. I can save you some time Claudia... there are no federal laws that provide such privacy, and most states don't have laws that cover it either. While it may or may not be wise to publish such a list of names, it is generally legal to do so.

JohnK3
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:317

05/15/2008 11:52 AM
Claudia, Yes. We have also told membership that if an Owner has a pressing issue (loss of job, family illness, reasonable mistake, whatever) that we'll do our best to accomodate them re: delinquencies and late fees, and though waivers are tough calls, we try to avoid fines to keep the natives in line. Late last year, an Owner mistakenly sent his $228 dues to the DMV, and his car registration fee of $36 to our previous MC. Nobody caught the mistake until recently. Rather than pile on fines, our Prez, to whom we gave discretion to waive late fees, simply asked Owner to submit the $192 difference and we'd forget the fines. Owner did, and happiness abounds. To paraphrase Forrest Gump: "Kindness is as kindness does." Perfect business sense? No. Rules are rules. Good HOA sense? I'd say yes.

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:1893

05/15/2008 11:59 AM
It should be realized that delinquencies are not public information until a lien or foreclosure is filed by the assn. But, even then, one must research this info, it isn't posted in the newspaper for everyone to read about. IMO, this information should always be regarded as priviledged by the assn. What, exactly, is the point in posting the names of delinquent members in the assn's newsletter? IMO, trying to embarrass someone into paying their delinquencies is really petty. Talk about neighborliness!

PatR
(Florida)

Posts:132

05/15/2008 12:05 PM
I am not saying I would post them, just asking the legalities of the stuation. We are now $120,000 in HOA arrears.... Talk about being a good neighbor, I am paying for you to live here and enjoy all the anemities.....and all you need to do is work the system.... We will start with turning off the gate/clubhouse cards, and see how that goes. We can't exist much longer like this. Desperate times and all that... Pat

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1646

05/15/2008 12:06 PM
while i agree with Mary's advice about the matter, i will say that I see delinquincies posted publicly by many companies. hardly a day goes by that i can't find a publically posted list of deadbeats, thieves, etc. from some corporation or another. i am not advocating it, because like mary, i don't think it's effective and not how I want to do business, but there are no laws that state a company is forbidden from releasing information on it's own accounts to the public, let alone to its own shareholders.

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:1893

05/15/2008 12:15 PM
Pat, I don't how large your assn is, but with $120,000 in delinquencies it would appear to me the board needs to really take a hard look at their collection policy. How long do you wait b/4 sending a late notice; how long b/4 legal action is taken? The board may want to make some adjustments - pronto!

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2511

05/15/2008 12:19 PM
Pat, If you have followed all of the Statute requirements for handling delinquencies, which is the letters and then certified letters and the appropriate time has past, then you can classify these delinquent owners as "members not in good standing" therefore you have the right to close the clubhouse, pool or other amenities to them. You cannot lock them out with removing their gate ingress or egress. That could be really a bad move on your Board's part.The Statutes cover ingress and egress very clear.

ClaudiaH
(Kentucky)

Posts:27

05/15/2008 12:23 PM
Mary, Our board places an emphasis on financial transparency. We view our small neighborhood as a family of sorts, and go out of our way to keep everyone educated and informed. Honestly, most people could care less. And we don't outright publish the names of the delinquent payers. It's on our website and you'd have to look for it. It's not in our newsletter. And I don't see the big deal. If chronic late payers don't want their names on the website, they can simply write a check. And as soon as they are current, their name will come off. Talk about neighborly, I think some homeowners often forget that their neighbors are volunteering their time and have other things to do than visit attorney or courthouses to try to get them to write one stinking check for a few hundred bucks each year.

ClaudiaH
(Kentucky)

Posts:27

05/15/2008 12:24 PM
Pat, Ya'll got some problemos!!! What does your attorney advise? I'm assuming part of your debt is due to foreclosures? Seems to be a nationwide problem. You'd better do something soon. That's a lotta money!

PatR
(Florida)

Posts:132

05/15/2008 12:35 PM
Some of the debt is due to forclosures, but some members (including one BOD member), in my opinion, are playing the system, until it will go "legal".... after all, it's a $25.00 late fee, and no reporting to any collection bureaus. There really is no incentive to pay this "bill" first. We have been not taken amenities away, but are thinking about it now.

ClaudiaH
(Kentucky)

Posts:27

05/15/2008 12:46 PM
Pat, I think I'd be asking for a vote to change your bylaws to state that Board members be removed from their position if they are not in good standing, meaning current on their dues, at all times. Our bylaws state that we can't be nominated to run for the board if we're not in good standing. What a terrible example to set. If I was a homeowner and knew someone on the Board wasn't paying their dues, I can imagine being quite upset over it.

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1304

05/15/2008 12:52 PM
Pat we doubled the late fee for habitual late payers which has cut down on it tremendously. Our CC&R's also allow us to: In any case of flagrant or repeated violation by a Unit Owner, he may be required by the Association to give sufficient surety or sureties for his future compliance with said covenants, conditions, restrictions, By-Laws, Rules and Regulations.

PatR
(Florida)

Posts:132

05/15/2008 1:03 PM
Thanks to both Claudia and Glen I am going to look into it ... Pat

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1575

05/15/2008 1:14 PM
This isn't "public information" it is HOA information, including the "names" of the homeowners, available to all members of the organization. Every member has a right to know the status of all accounts. We do not publish in a newsletter, because we don't have one anymore. Nor do we publish online because it is not restricted to members-only. We do, however, print a list of all delinquent accounts after our second late notice has gone out (we are on an annual billing cycle), and the list includes the entire account information, the address and the name of the owner/member, and the status of the account, including balance due. We aren't the same type of company or organization as say, the phone company, or AMEX, where the account holder is simply that to the organization, an account holder/debtor. All our "account holders" are also MEMBERS. They are entitled to all the information of the organization.

BruceF1
(Connecticut)

Posts:499

05/15/2008 1:20 PM
Posted By BrianB on 05/15/2008 11:16 AM Posted By ClaudiaH on 05/15/2008 10:35 AM Bruce, I'll have to save the task of googling the heck out of privacy laws to figure out where the homeowners are protected for some other day. As it stands, our only dues outstanding are from the same person who a lien is currently filed against. But this is good information to research for future non-payers. I can save you some time Claudia... there are no federal laws that provide such privacy, and most states don't have laws that cover it either. While it may or may not be wise to publish such a list of names, it is generally legal to do so. Your opinion? Or fact? Please supply a source reference. I always like to check things out to see for myself. That's how I learn.

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1575

05/15/2008 1:24 PM
Just curious, but how can you provide a "source reference" for something that doesn't exist?

JosephW
(Michigan)

Posts:735

05/15/2008 2:30 PM
First, you can publish delinquencies to the owners - you would be publishing corporate information to the shareholders and this is accounts receivable. However, EVERY attorney I have ever talked to or has written about it strongly recommends that you do not publish the names of the delinquent owners because of the potential liability. This means not publishing their names in the newsletter, on the internet (even if you have a "member-only" area with secure log-in), or even in the minutes. They don't even want you to even use the address if you can avoid it. They would prefer only the unit ID number as indicated in the documents. The main reasons, from the lawyer's standpoint, are timing and accuracy. Too many mistakes are made and by the time the item is actually published or posted on the internet, it may no longer be accurate, which opens the association up to a defamation charge. The other main reason is that for every homeowner it might "shame" into paying, there will be twice as many who are now mad at you and will carry the grudge for a long time. It's not worth it. Owners have a right to see the information, but I think they should be required to sign a document stating that information is private to the association, the owner and his or her legal counsel, power of attorney or agent. Any dissemination of the information is prohibited unless approved by the board. I would also stamp every document as "Confidential" before they were allowed to obtain a copy. I think I'm going to start another topic on this issue to see what people think. Joe

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