JoyceS1
(Indiana)
Posts:125
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| 06/16/2006 9:10 AM |
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Through doing a "search" I couldn't find anything on how board succession is handled by other viewers of this website. Thus, I will ask the question.....
Please share how your board succession is handled....Do new board members come in cold onto the board having no knowledge of what the previous board has pending or has put into place along with no idea what the CC&Rs and Bylaws say and the purpose? Are they required to attend board meetings prior to their taking office in order to gain such background information? Is there training or orientation of the new board?
The minutes provide a source for the information regarding action taken, but the discussion that went into the decisionmaking is often vital for new board members' also. Also, most people do not and will never read the Covenants....thus cannot enforce what they do not know or understand.
We have a community of homeowners who have no concept of what an HOA is....thus when they become board members they reinvent the HOA according to their frame of reference, not understanding the significance of the CC&Rs, bylaws and Rules and Regulations which are in place to guide them in their responsibilities.
One BOD follows the governing documents and then the next one does not....which causes confusion among new homeowners and disgruntled long time homeowners. There are those homeowners who know, understand and follow the guidelines for the community because it is the right thing to do, but then those homeowners who do not want boundaries know when a BOD is winging it and take advantage of the situation leading to inconsistent enforcement of the restrictions contained in our governing documents not to mention the eroding of uniformity within the community.
Is this normal? Am I dreaming if I think that anyone will ever educate themselves or follow the documents in place to governing the operation of our community? |
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JulieS
(Georgia)
Posts:412
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| 06/16/2006 9:26 AM |
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You should not have 100% turnover of the board at any one time. Unfortunately, when our board went from 3 to 5 members, the three members made it so that we have four seats up for election one year and the next year has one seat since all terms are now at 2 years.
Also, if you have a management company, they can keep things going and the transition run smoothly. The first year I was on the board I learned a lot and stayed somewhat in the background until I figured some things out.
Also, we are required to have the first board meeting within 10 days of the annual meeting/election. This is where we decide positions and then move on with regular business. |
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JoyceS1
(Indiana)
Posts:125
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| 06/16/2006 9:41 AM |
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Our board turns over 3 one year and 2 the next. The problem has alway been basically apathy. We are too, too small, thus people want to just "live" here and not be responsible for anything. Those who do consent to serve on the board merely "show up" for board meetings and think they have "served" on the board. Those who did not leave the board often are no more involved than the new ones.
The bulk of the responsibilities rests on the shoulders of the president. He/she asks for a motion to do something and someone makes it...no discussion, no perspectives....just do whatever the president presents.
As an example, we did not have funds to paint last year, so the then president advised the then board to put the painting into the plans for the next year. We had 4 people remain on the board this year from the old board, one volunteered to stay another year....but, everything that was discussed in the way of plans for this year were totally ignored as though none of the discussion took place, thus nothing is getting done.
I plan to volunteer to serve on the board next year. I want to put into place an orientation or training. I'm interested in if this type of thing occurs or not, or am I just going to be spinning my wheels thinking an educated board is a productive board and that apathy is going to forever continue.....
Thanks for you input. |
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SallyK
(California)
Posts:3
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| 06/16/2006 10:47 AM |
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From the body of your question I get the impression your association does not currently have a managing agent to assist and guide your Board of Directors.
Annual Meetings (of the membership) as you are already aware are held once a year. Depending on how your governing docs. are written all Board Members serve for one or two years. If you are one of the rare associations where all members are willing to take a turn to serve on the Board I congratulate you. If your nominating committee has difficulty in obtaining nominees then the current Board Members should be able to nominate themselves to serve another year.
Willing nominees do not need to have a history of having attended Board Meetings, but it helps. New Board Members could be provided copies of the previous year's minutes to aquant themselves with the issues currently faced by the association. One of the vacating Board Members could serve as a liaison to the new Board assisting with decisions and directions made over the past year. The liaison would not have voting power.
I have found that most homeowners never look at the governing documents. There just isn't time or interest in openning up that 75+ page document. They will from time to time look at the Rules. Whether or not they follow the rules is another story.
Your Bylaws will probably state that a Board Member has to be "in good standing" to serve. This means they have to comply with the rules and regulations they are enforcing and they have to be current in their dues. Board Members not in good standing can be asked by the Board to resign, but be careful how you do that and read your Bylaws carefully.
The Board of Directors need to be consistent in the way decisions and disciplinary actions are taken. In other words "what's good for the goose is good for the gander". Playing favorites does not work.
Is this normal? Yes it is in self managed associations. |
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JoyceS1
(Indiana)
Posts:125
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| 06/16/2006 12:04 PM |
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SallyK:
I am aware of all that you wrote. The problem is, how to get the other homeowners who serve on the board to become conscious of it too?
We do have a managing agent. She responds to directives from the board; she does not have the authority to initiate action or enforce the governing documents. Thus, if the board itself doesn't know what it is supposed to do, it cannot give the managing agent directives to take care of what needs to be done.....a vicious circle.
The BOD often acts like a self-managed community because it lacks understanding of its role and the managing agent's role. The managing agent isn't utilized as should be simply because of an uneducated BOD.
By initiating some type of a orientation/training program to summarize what people are unwilling to read or learn on their own, perhaps we can become more consistent in the oversight of the community affairs and better utilization of the managing agent.
Through the past involvement of both my husband and I, we thought we had gotten things on track....but then once we were no longer involved on the board or committees, things went back to the lax oversight and inattention to the governing documents.
As they say...you can take a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
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GeraldT1
Posts:0
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| 06/16/2006 12:07 PM |
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Joyce – Is there any way you can become President? Because the undertaking you wish to implement will require development of a board training program, and a Nominating Committee. Yes the undertaking is normal or not unheard of, as a matter of fact it is noble and I wish you the very best of luck!! But I believe it is uncommon in many associations. Those doing the “grooming” of potential board members are often fit only to groom dogs, i.e. cronyism.
Unless you Joyce are leading the pack, I doubt things will change. I’d be curious to see what happens if you are leading the pack. Something tells me the bulk of responsibilities will still remain on your shoulders as President but you may find you are being denied the opportunity to implement your concepts through vetoing of other board members. Hopefully they will be supportive of your breath of fresh air or apathetic. This way the ground swell can come from the community.
It is rare to find anyone (including board members) that will wish to become educated or appreciate the importance of the governing documents.
You can float your concepts regarding a nominating committee in an open board meeting and see where it goes. You’ll know within seconds the potential of your success. Or you can be political, say nothing, get on the board, and then try to develop your goals. Gerald T1
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JoyceS1
(Indiana)
Posts:125
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| 06/16/2006 1:02 PM |
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GeraldT1
My initial thought was to do as you describe in your last sentence. My observations tell me that would be the more effective way of proceeding.
I guess all I can do is try to implement my vision. Then, if it reverts back after my tenure on the board is over....at least I know I tried to chart a new direction. Hopefully, however, there will be 2-3 more educated homeowners than before.
I'm afraid I'm a round peg trying to fit into a square hole....I see things that need to be done and I want to get them done, whereas others can sit and ponder them indefinitely.
This Website is so helpful in getting the feel for other's struggles and/or successes. I'm truly grateful for yours, GeraldT1, as well as everyone else's input today. |
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SwanB
(Washington)
Posts:199
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| 06/16/2006 1:33 PM |
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Phew, I don't envy you. Our governing documents dictate things so this situation is less likely to take effect. We have nine Board members and if one resigns, dies or is removed and is replaced, the person replacing them fills their spot on the Board until the next Annual General Meeting. Our Board terms are three years and rotate in a 3/3/3 pattern with the 'ideal' rotation occuring with at least 1-3 Board members with 3 years of Board experience under their belt with 3 new members coming on.
We are a bit heavy-handed on the need to know our governing documents and don't hold our members' hands when they don't know things. We direct them to where in the document they can find the item we are referring to. In letters or any correspondence we take every opportunity to refer to a particular part of our governing document and it works.
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BradP
(Kansas)
Posts:2384
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| 06/16/2006 4:08 PM |
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We currently have 4 board members and am making an attempt to get it up to the seven we are allowed. Currently we have 2 position turn over every year and will try to have a 4/3 split when we get to full capacity.
Yes, I think it would be a great idea to have people with knowledge and an understanding of an HOA, but I am just happy to have a breathing person who wants to be involved. |
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JoyceS1
(Indiana)
Posts:125
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| 06/16/2006 5:39 PM |
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BradP
I guess maybe I'm just going to have to settle for breathing persons who don't want to be involved....at least they are still breathing, right?
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BradP
(Kansas)
Posts:2384
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| 06/16/2006 7:50 PM |
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| I would! To me anyone that is willing to volunteer and put in the time has a place. We are hurting for good people, so I am always actively recruiting. |
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LisaS
(Illinois)
Posts:341
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| 06/17/2006 7:59 PM |
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We ahev a 3/2 turnover in alternating years.
We basically function with three members. The other two are breathing (I think...) but do nothing. As the three of us remaining are like minded and reasonable, we always reach avote as the 'majority' without worrying whether anyone else will show up or help out. It's actually easier. Less to discuss.
I am a researcher- I am the go-to person for our CCRs, the state law, the local ordinance, and most other things that we might need to know. We make really sure all our ducks are in a row, and proceed.
I took the pro-active approach on our Board because I also saw the faults in our short 18 months of existence. I got respect from the 'guys' on the Board for knowing what i was talking about. Now I have the luxury (or burden I guess)of being trusted to know what the right thing to do is, or what rule applies, etc.
I am not always the most popular person on our HOA, but I am well respected for striving to do the best job possible for the members. |
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RogerB
(Colorado)
Posts:4647
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| 06/17/2006 9:20 PM |
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You are also respected on this board Lisa. I always read your well reasoned posts.  |
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JoyceS1
(Indiana)
Posts:125
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| 06/18/2006 7:04 AM |
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LisaS
I am so envious that you have gotten your HOA off to the right start from the very beginning.... even with, perhaps, only minimal participation.
HOA's are a fairly new concept in our area and were quite unique when I moved into one 15 years ago. However, after 10 years of puzzling inconsistencies, I researched all the areas you mentioned and read everything I could get my eyes and hands on.....but, unfortunately 10 years too late, for sure. What I found was the BODs were not following the CC&Rs/Bylaws/RRs; they were making things up as they went along.
For the past 5 years of trying to undo all the inconsistencies and lack of abiding by the CC&Rs by previous BODs, our efforts have been met with resistance and resentment by homeowners. The folks see the documents as merely ink on paper with no legal or binding significance since that was how 10 years of BODs treated them....
While my husband and I were serving in some capacity, either on the board or a committee, the CC&Rs were being followed. We introduced newsletters, spoke often about the CC&Rs at Board meetings and annual meetings and in casual conversations. We thought we had made an impact. This year we stepped back from involvement and it immediately reverted back to the reinventing of the HOA. Five years of effort down the drain.
As I plan to volunteer to serve on the board next year, my goal is to propose and implement an orientation or "training" for the fellow board/committee members in order for more consistent and logical (educated) administration of the HOA and transition from board to board. My goal....an educated board turn into more educated homeowners. (Am I dreaming again?)
You are so lucky, LisaS, to be in the position you are in. Not getting everything on track from the very start is why our HOA has suffered.
Thanks for your humor on the breathing part.....I sometimes have wondered about that very issue myself over the past 5 years. We had one board member who only perked up long enough to vote "no" on whatever was a money matter.....didn't matter what the necessity or importance of the expenditure....if we were going to spend money, he was against it. That was the only time we knew HE was breathing! (smile)
Thanks LisaS! |
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SwanB
(Washington)
Posts:199
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| 06/18/2006 7:07 AM |
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LisaS: Our situations sound similar. I am also the person on our Board who digs for the information and sound research on the subject. Fortunately I am also backed with two members on the Board who have history within our association going back a number of years and can fill in any gaps in my information. We make a formidable team. I was seen as an outsider when I came on the Board but quickly earned their respect with my solid stances over every detail we dealt with and straight talk.
I was clear and honest, no hidden agendas; I had a very exposed one-make this a fair and honest Board. |
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JulieS
(Georgia)
Posts:412
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| 06/18/2006 12:14 PM |
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It's nice to know that most all associations have this problem...I don't feel alone anymore!
I picked up on the painting issue and not having the funds, move to next year and then no one remembering. I'm guessing that your HOA does not have a reserve study? This is an important tool used to plan future large expenses and should be visited at least once a year during the budget meeting. This would have been the reminder that says, "Hey, check the paint to see if it's still good", unless someone can be observant enough to notice with their own eyes that the paint is starting to look bad. |
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JoyceS1
(Indiana)
Posts:125
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| 06/18/2006 4:18 PM |
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JulieS
Therein lies the problem....until my husband and I became involved on the board and on the Budget Committee, no one had a clue about a Reserve Study. One was conducted through our bringing that about; it was found we were grossly underfunded; an increase in the maintenance fee was initiated with a larger sum going toward our anemic reserves.
Our roofing started to fail about 5 years sooner than it should have and there wasn't enough money to do all the buildings....there are only 7.
At the annual meeting, homeowners suggested that we allow homeowners to pay for their own roof replacement....Note: the CC&Rs puts roofing repair and replacement in the hands of the Association; the next suggestion came from a just elected board member who asked why we couldn't change the "rules". The CC&Rs cannot be changed unless 90% of the homeowners vote to amend them....the "rules" are an entirely different document.
When there are homeowners who have never read the CC&Rs, Bylaws or Rules, it is not surprising that a Reserve Study is foreign to them too.
Since previous BODs have not followed the the governing documents, you can understand why homeowners think the "rules" can be changed.
Preparing people to serve responsibly on the board instead of thrusting them into a situation they do not understand or even want to be in, seemed on the surface like a good thing to do. However, after some responses that have been received, I can see that it may be a hopeless pursuit.
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JulieS
(Georgia)
Posts:412
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| 06/19/2006 6:06 PM |
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Most homeowners have no clue about what it takes to manage an HAO and manage it well. I am often asked, "Well, what do you have to do? and what do you have to know?" I admit, I didn't know much when I came on board but what I did know is that I didn't think things were being managed the way they should be...so that is when I got involved. I have learned a lot in the past five years and you can only hope to educate people. But like a previous post stated, you can lead the horse to water but you cannot make it drink. I think most people just don't care or have the time to think about it. They only take notice when something is wrong, like if the pool is closed when they want to use it, or get mad when the dues go up. We actually have people who do not understand why the cost of doing business increases. "Our dues shouldn't got up"! "Things aren't costing more". What do you mean...have you seen the price of gas lately? They don't know that the pool chemicals are petroleum based...HELLO!
Anyway...enough of banging my head on the wall! |
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ReneeD
(Illinois)
Posts:189
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| 07/13/2006 2:58 PM |
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July 13, 2006
ATTN: To Joyce and All Who Responded to Her
FROM: ReneeD
I would like your permission to quote certain references in your posts for similar problems we are experiencing in our association. Please let me know if this is okay with you. Thank you so much! |
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ReneeD
(Illinois)
Posts:189
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| 07/13/2006 2:58 PM |
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July 13, 2006
ATTN: To Joyce and All Who Responded to Her
FROM: ReneeD
I would like your permission to quote certain references in your posts for similar problems we are experiencing in our association. Please let me know if this is okay with you. Thank you so much! |
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RogerB
(Colorado)
Posts:4647
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| 07/13/2006 3:25 PM |
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Joyce, with regards to your original questions relating to training of new Board members and having background information prior to taking office, you can quote me.
These are great ideas but have never been done in any of the HOAs with whom I have been involved. Our managing Agent's, who serve an HOA for many years, provide the historical information and the answers to the Board members questions which provides consistency and compliance. We also provide information and education to all of the homeowners through newsletters and letters.
I have found it is more important to get good Board members than to expect them to be knowledgeable on the HOA documents; and sometimes it is difficult to even get a warm body who is willing to serve. |
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JoyceS1
(Indiana)
Posts:125
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| 07/13/2006 4:10 PM |
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ReneeD
Sure. I have no problem with your request.
I am interested in reading about your situations, which hopefully will be on this website.
Good luck with your efforts.
JoyceS |
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JulieS
(Georgia)
Posts:412
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| 07/14/2006 6:13 AM |
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| I don't have a problem with your request.... |
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BradP
(Kansas)
Posts:2384
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| 07/14/2006 8:19 AM |
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Renee:
Please feel free to use.
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RichardE
(Kansas)
Posts:5
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| 07/16/2006 4:55 PM |
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Roger,
I know the feeling. In our H.O.A. we changed the regs. so that there is a two year term and each year we elect officials for specific positions, Pres., Sec., Tres, etc. That we we always have a overlap. But you are correct just getting people to show up at the annual meeting or even board members to show up for our monthly meetings is a chore. Just take the bull by the horns and hang on.
Richard E.
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