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| Author |
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LeoS1
(Florida)
Posts:5
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| 05/08/2008 8:53 AM |
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We have a resident who has $2,350 in fines for failing to comply with community rules.
He is also late in assessesnets.
Can we add the fine amounts to an estoppel letter?
Leo
Orlando FL
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MaryA1
(Arizona)
Posts:1023
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| 05/08/2008 9:00 AM |
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| I would say, most definitely, unless the assn isn't concerned about collecting them, and is just concerned with him stopping whatever it is he shouldn't be doing. |
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HaroldS
(Arizona)
Posts:891
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| 05/08/2008 9:52 AM |
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| "and is just concerned with him stopping whatever it is he shouldn't be doing." HUH? |
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SusanW1
(Michigan)
Posts:1187
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| 05/08/2008 3:43 PM |
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Ya learn something new every day:
Main Entry: es·top·pel
Pronunciation: \e-ˈstä-pəl\
Function: noun
Etymology: probably alteration of Anglo-French estopere stopping, from estoper
Date: 1531
: a legal bar to alleging or denying a fact because of one's own previous actions or words to the contrary
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PaulaM
(Florida)
Posts:7
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| 05/12/2008 12:22 PM |
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All monies legally due to the Association can be listed.
Fines cannot be used to foreclose or lien and property |
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PeterB1
(Florida)
Posts:32
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| 05/13/2008 5:30 AM |
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PaulaM or some Florida member:
Could you cite the part of the Florida law that allows this charge to be considered?
I'd love to see a couple of people forced to pay their fair share.
peter |
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:2056
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| 05/13/2008 5:51 AM |
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Peter,
There is not enough information from Leo to know what the charges are for. Is it one single violation or multiple ones. The Statutes do not allow fines for a single violation to exceed $1000.00 per issue. Below is the Statute. Leins cannot be levied against a property for fine violations.
2) If the governing documents so provide, an association may suspend, for a reasonable period of time, the rights of a member or a member's tenants, guests, or invitees, or both, to use common areas and facilities and may levy reasonable fines, not to exceed $100 per violation, against any member or any tenant, guest, or invitee. A fine may be levied on the basis of each day of a continuing violation, with a single notice and opportunity for hearing, except that no such fine shall exceed $1,000 in the aggregate unless otherwise provided in the governing documents. A fine shall not become a lien against a parcel. In any action to recover a fine, the prevailing party is entitled to collect its reasonable attorney's fees and costs from the nonprevailing party as determined by the court.
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HaroldS
(Arizona)
Posts:891
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| 05/13/2008 1:47 PM |
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"A fine shall not become a lien against a parcel." I find that interesting. In Arizona we cannot either place a lien based on fine(s), but can get a court judgment for those fines and then file a lien based on the court judgment. B U T we cannot foreclose on a lien based on fines. So I wonder Donna, if your quoted statement means that even a court judgment based on fines could not be lien-ed? That is a pretty flat statement there - "A fine shall not become a lien...." "Shall not become" - even if thru a judgment?
"All monies legally due to the association can be listed." So the key words are "legally due". Are fines legally due? States don't seem to be too concerned about the HOAs ability to collect fines. I remember reading some time ago where an Arizona resident successfully fought her association from trying to collect outstanding humongous fines thru escrow. Even tho it is still commonly done, and the title companies will not question any charges sent by the HOA, an astute seller can supposedly refuse to allow fine charges to be deducted if they are included in the estoppel letter.
The states generally protect HOAs in collecting the assessments needed to run the day to day operations of an association. However, fines, etc. are not needed for solvency, so obviously are not critical for day to day operation. States recognize that fact, so don't give much power to collect fines, and certainly not the power to lien and foreclose on fines. |
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