Difficult owner

Started by MichelleW • 31 replies • 3691 views

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MichelleW (Texas)
Posts: 25

Posted:

I'm on the Board of our small 10 unit HOA and we've been dealing with a difficult owner who had sent a slew of "demand" letters that he wants the Board to address "or he's seeking legal counsel". We've dealt with the letters by sending a response/action letter to each, but he continues to not pay his HOA dues and just reacts by sending another round of demand letters. I am meeting with the Board next week and we want to arrange a face-to-face with this owner to see what needs to happen to move beyond this impasse. My concern is twofold: 1)Should we invite him to meet by letter specifying the date of the meeting or by personal (direct or phone) invitation requesting his input as to when it works best for us all to meet? 2)What do we do if he refuses to meet with us? My guess is we'll have to get an attorney to deal with the HOA dues stuff if he continues this path, but I wondered if you had any other suggestions?

Also, just to give a taste of what this guy has done, we have one owner with his unit on the market and the difficult owner has gone so far as to call the realtor of the unit for sale to tell the realtor that the Board is doing nothing (which is completely untrue--it's just not exactly what this guy wants us to do) and that he feels potential buyers should be made aware of this.

GeraldT1 (<Not Specified>)
Posts: 519

Posted:

Michelle - The owner has completely overstepped bounds by speaking with the realtor. It seems the owner intended to jeopardize the sale of the unit by informing potential buyers that the board is "doing nothing". That's illogical behavior because quick sales are good for everyone's investments. You unfortunately have a disgruntled "for lifer". I would document all of it for the attorney. Certainly inform the owner in writing that you are meeting as a board to informally discuss the matters related and invite the owner to attend stating , "We encourage you to attend and will even arrange alternate dates to amicablly resolve matters. In the event you choose not to attend, you leave us no other option but to refer the matter to the Alternative Dispute Committee, and or the association's attorney.". Gerald

JulieS (Georgia)
Posts: 412

Posted:

Regardless of the actions by the board or this guys 'demand letters'....he still owes the annual assessment. Follow your covenants by placing late fees and a lien on his property. If he still has not paid after a given amount of time, a lawsuit can be filed to collect. My advice is to not wait to long. Maybe the neighbor with the unit for sale can get a restraining order or something on this guy. The two issues are totally separate (dues and demand letters). Seems every neighborhood has this type of character in it unfortunately.

MichelleW (Texas)
Posts: 25

Posted:

Our lovely "difficult owner" is up to his antics again. I came home today to find 9 new "demand letters" posted to my door. He's now wanting the Board to give reason for various payments that have been made for work around the property (i.e., why did we pay a certain person a certain amount and did we have that person "on contract" with our HOA; however, there is nothing that specifies we have to have people on contract per our Bylaws/Texas code and our insurance), demanding written notice at least 7 days prior to any Board meetings (our Bylaws simply say we can give verbal notice to other Board members of the meeting and no specific notice is needed for other owners), and he's demanding we bring the books to his unit at 10:00 a.m. (no specific date noted) so he can review them.

This sort of thing makes my blood boil because the Board isn't even able to address his initial "demands" before another round of letters comes pouring in. This is the third such round of letters and each time he sends more letters than the last. When does it cross the line and become harassment?

Is it even wise for our Board to try to meet with him face-to-face to address this? I'm questioning the mental stability of this person given his behavior and I'm wondering if such a meeting might do more harm than good. Yet, I also feel it makes sense to try to appease to the "human" side of this person before seeking assitance of an attorney.

HELP!!

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067

Posted:

Michelle, has trying to respond to this person just been "adding fuel to the fire"? I think it may be time to ignore him. None of those requests needs a response. I see nothing that an attorney can do. He has the right to send letters to the Board and the Board has the right to ignore requests that do not require a response.

I would not call a special meeting to meet with him face-to-face. But I do think this owner should be allowed to come to open Board meetings. He and any other owner should be allowed a limited time, no more than 3-5 minutes, to speak. The Chair can control who has the floor, when, and for what length of time. It is usually best to allow no discussion or answer any questions when an owner speaks. The Board can decide later if any of this person's or other owners ideas are worth consideration.

MichelleW (Texas)
Posts: 25

Posted:

We haven't really had "open" Board meetings as it isn't stated in our Bylaws to do so (and frankly owners have not requested to be notified until now). I have announced some of the meetings to owners, but didn't really invite people to attend. Should we be doing so?

We had originally planned to set up a special meeting with this guy to address his concerns, but I think you're right, "fuel is being added to the fire" by giving him attention. Our hope was that by meeting with him, we could persuade him to let go of the negative energy (i.e., demanding the Board address ridiculous items like justifying items in the books for the last 7 years and making such justication within 30 days, or demanding the books for the last 7 years be brought to his unit for review when we told him we'd arrange a meeting at a local library for anyone to look at the books, etc.) and rather get him to focus his efforts on making our property better (i.e., perhaps put him on a "property improvements" committee to make recommendations to the Board but with the Board making the final decisions). We also hoped to use the meeting as a means to get him to pay his dues if we listen to him (more flies with honey than vinegar), but I don't know that will happen and it may be more destructive than good.

When you mention ignoring him, do you mean to not respond in any fashion to his now 17 letters or at a minimum send a letter indicating we've received his concerns and the Board will take them into consideration when making future decisions for the property. Or what verbage (if any) would you suggest?
Thanks!

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067

Posted:

Posted By MichelleW on 06/11/2006 9:36 AM
When you mention ignoring him, do you mean to not respond in any fashion to his now 17 letters or at a minimum send a letter indicating we've received his concerns and the Board will take them into consideration when making future decisions for the property. Or what verbage (if any) would you suggest?

Either, I meant ignore him except at meetings, but the second may be more civil but would not do respond to each of his requests. Its your choice.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Michelle:

This is what I would do in this situation, I may be wrong. First, if he hasn't paid his dues I would send him a letter reminding him they are due and the consequences of not paying. Then treat him like any other unpaying member.

Second, under no circumstances would I schedule a special meeting with him. First, no good would ever come out of it, and you are setting a dangerous precedent for other residents in the future to do that and I don't think you want to get into that.

We have board meetings every other month, they are open to the homeowners, we post our meeting place and time on our website along with an agenda. However, we don't notify each resident by mail. Not to say what we do is right, but it is in line with our bylaws, we get 10-15 homeowners at each meeting and give them a chance at the end to talk. We then post minutes on the website after the meeting.

I would send him one letter that states something to the effect of thank you for your concern for our neighborhood and your feedback. We have received your letters and take all comments seriously and will look into them. Then I would go on to say that he is welcome to attend the next board meeting and if you want to give him a couple of minutes to speak that is up to you. I don't know if your books are open to the residents, but I would let him look at during the board meeting. I would make your letter short and sweet,

He is going to feed off of your anger and animosity towards him, if you are polite, kind, and civil with him it will kill him. I wouldn't get into justifying why do what you do, as a board you are empowered to make those decisions on behalf of the association for their betterment.

Good luck, hopefully he will cool down and stop the harassment.

MichelleW (Texas)
Posts: 25

Posted:

Yes, we've already sent by certified return receipt a letter to him noting what he owes and even offered to waive one month of the HOA amount since we didn't give a full 30 days notice (per our Bylaws) regarding the new increase (although every owner, including this guy was in approval of the increase at our HOA meeting and that would only apply to him refusing to pay one month since plenty of notice was given for subsequent months).

I plan to meet with the Board on Tuesday and suggest we set an "open" board meeting once a quarter and offer to have him (and any other owners) attend and give time to speak at the end of the meeting but the Board will just listen and not make decisions about concerns at that time. We're such a small property that we really can't afford a website, so my best communication tool is via email with meeting minutes/announcements which I also post in our community laundry/mail room.

We'll send a letter to him noting we're in receipt of the letters but leave it at that. He's constantly threatening to hire an attorney, so we'll call his bluff and just "respectfully ignore" him unless we need to use an attorney to collect the HOA dues.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Michelle,
What state are you in? State Statutes for H.O.A.s will have requirements as to how and when meetings can be held and to their proceedure. In Florida, ALL meetings by the Board, after a quorum is obtained, must be open to all members, except when it involves litigation against a member and the Attorney is present for this discussion. Even Board workshops must be open and posted 48 hours prior to any meeting.
I also am on the Board where we have 1 guy who just cannot accept any decision that our Board makes. We have had him to court, got liens against him for not paying his assessments, etc. Been back to court, so he knows what he is doing. We now just ignore his antics and let the liens pile up. He is in for quite a suprise when he goes to sell or refinance.

JulieS (Georgia)
Posts: 412

Posted:

Unfortunately, every neighborhood has a person like this. Concentrate on collecting his dues. We hold town hall typ meetings periodically so that people can 'vent' and ask questions. Our board meetings are open but no one comes to those (except for a few months last year after the board removal).

Our annual meetings were so disturbing that people stopped coming. This year, I decided that the annual meeting would consist of a presentation by the board showing a review of the prior year and goals for this year. Then we had the election and no open discussion. Our by-laws state that an annual meeting will be held to hold an election so that is what we did to curb the out-of-control negativeness. We did hold a town hall meeting a few weeks before and had a few people show up, the usual complainers with the usual complaints every year. The annual meeting was completed in 15 minutes and it was the best meeting ever. We did let everyone know the agenda in the meeting notice and that there would not be an 'open discussion'. Those who attended got the information they were looking for and it was a very positive experience. Since the meeting was over so quickly, we did take a couple of questions at the end and it was very civil. I'm looking forward to the same process next year!

PatriciaF (New Mexico)
Posts: 20

Posted:

I am President of a 60 home HOA. If your dues are not up to date, you have a loss of previliges including access to the board to express your concerns. I have threatened but never have I had to go through with a property lien for dues. I simply print out a copy of the lien papers with their name on it and give the home owner 10 days to pay up or I will file the papers. I think there is something unappealing about seeing your name on official documents about to be filed.It is amazing that we each have at least one of this type of homeowner. I kill them with kindness but very firmly. You can't win with them so don't try. When his dues are paid, he may look at the books at your convenience. Having a meeting with him just fuels him. Best of Luck Patricia

MichelleW (Texas)
Posts: 25

Posted:

Patricia,
Where did you get the lien papers? I figured such things had to go through a real estate attorney to be filed? Our Board met tonight and we've opted to send him a final letter indicating if he does not pay within 14 days we'll have to turn the matter over to an attorney and he'll be assessed the legal fees for any filing/liens as it's stated in our Bylaws. We also intend to hold an open Board meeting in a few weeks for any owner to review the books, but I'm certain he won't attend and he'll make some excuse why he can't come but demand we hold another meeting then play that cat/mouse game.

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067

Posted:

Patricia, you do not have to use an attorney to file a lien or a release of lien. I have previously posted examples of each. Your state may require giving 30 days written notice prior to filing a lien. When I file a lien a copy is provided to the owner. And when their account is no longer delinquent I file a release of lien and provide a copy to the owner. As the property manager, I charge $50 for each of these two notarized documents which includes the County's charges.

Why would you ever hold a Board meeting for an owner to review the records? If incorporated your Registered Agent is responsible for maintaining the corporations records and should be the one to arrange and supervise the review (and copying) of records. As the managing Agent I am the Registered Agent and charge $0.15/copy plus my time. I would never allow a review without being present because records have been known to be stolen, destroyed, misfiled, etc. If not incorporated the Secretary would maintain the records and be their contact.

JulieS (Georgia)
Posts: 412

Posted:

Patricia is right in that the homeowner has no rights if he has not paid his dues. By being delinquent he is not a member in good standing. This means you cannot vote or use the community ammenities and probably anything else he feels 'entitled to'.

I would follow Rogers advice on the copies....never leave anyone alone with official documents, etc. They do seem to grow legs and walk away.

PatriciaF (New Mexico)
Posts: 20

Posted:

Michelle and Rodger

I agree. I would not leave anyone alone with the books. We have an anuual meeting where we give each member a copy of the expense report for the year,accounts receivable and forecast expenses for the following year. At that meeting we answer questions about expenditures, and listen to concerns with a time limit per person but we do not use this meeting to make decisions. I post the regular board meetings 10 days in advance. 5 to 10 minutes at the beginning of the meeting is used for homeowners concerns and then they may stay to listen only or leave. Your guy is on a fishing expedition that doesn't exist. HOA is like raising children. They need to be dealt with firmly and fairly. The winers need to be sent to their room. You can do this by including the entire community in his problem. He will fade away through peer pressure. I have a guy like yours. I ended up giving him a "title". Another trick I have learned since becoming President is to make the complainer the chair of the committee to research the problem and give their report to the board. You do have the power to refuse toopen the books to him. Have him wait until you decide it is time to provide the yearly information to everyone.

I found the Lein papers on line for New Mexico. I fill them out and send them to the home owner. I began my board tenure as treasurer. We were $7500.00 in unpaid dues. I assure you everyone is on time now. I do like the $50.00 fee for filing the papers. I am lucky that it never has to go that far. There is just something about seeing your name in a negative way on an official document. Maybe Rodger will put those forms out one more time.

Finally, this guy wants to take control from you. Your weapons are the bylaws, covenants and humor. I wish I were writing the response letters for you.

First order of business is to help him catch up on his dues.

Patricia

MichelleW (Texas)
Posts: 25

Posted:

OK, we'll hold off on a Board meeting for owners to look at the books. We will be using a new property management company in July and we'll let them arrange for owners (only if they request to do so) to look at the books in their presence and charge for copies they might want.

We'll just focus on sending this difficult owner a final letter regarding his deliquent dues and if not paid we'll put a lien on his property and he'll be assessed attorney fees. I'd definitely like to see the example lien papers posted or referenced for me so I can find them on here or if someone knows where I can locate such forms online for Texas, I'd appreciate it.

Finally, the Board has been approached by several other owners who have caught wind of what this guy is doing. Is there some politically correct way we can inform all the owners (there are just 10 of us) of this guy's deliquency in dues and/or the multitude of letters he's demanding the Board address. I guess, I just want to be able to reassure owners that we ARE addressing the matter and not letting this guy get away with deliquent dues. Information can be power, but rumors spoil the bunch!

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Michelle:

I would not address this guys delinquency with anyone outside the board, that will only cause problems and will come back to haunt you.

SwanB (Washington)
Posts: 199

Posted:

MichelleW: The members who have approached you may want to know all the details of how the Board is going to handle this guy. However it is the Board's responsibility to handle the situation and protect all involved, including the difficult member. I would advise those members who are concerned about the situation that the Board is taking care of everything and doing it now.
Quit letting this guy make the rules. He owes money to the whole membership. If he owed money to the phone company, do you think they would bargain with him?

SwanB (Washington)
Posts: 199

Posted:

Charging for copies: You need to check your state statutes on this one. In our state (Washington), we are not allowed to charge our members for copies of certain types of our HOA documents like our Articles of Incorporation or Bylaws or covenants. But we may charge for copies of meeting minutes, etc.

JulieS (Georgia)
Posts: 412

Posted:

I just received our quarterly newsletter from our attorney and one of the articles addresses the publishing of delinquent homeowners. We had someone who thought we should publish this information and my thought was that it would do more harm to the community than helping the situation. The article discusses this idea as well as opening the association to liable suits. I highly recommend that you do not put it out there that the guy hasn't paid. Let everyone know that the board is handling the situation and should be resolved shortly. It is unfortunate that we have to deal with someone on this level. I would concentrate on collecting is unpaid assessment.

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067

Posted:

Julie, why are you having an attorney create your newsletter? Seems like your Board are not being good stewarts of the HOA's funds.

You need a new attorney and Board if delinquent owners' information is published to all members. Accounts receivable should be part of the Corporation's records which a member can view, but should not be published.

JulieS (Georgia)
Posts: 412

Posted:

I write the newsletter for the association that is sent out to the homeowners. Our HOA attorney/law firm puts out a quarterly newsletter complimentary to all HOA management companies and board members, or their clients. Along with this, they provide a free HOA law seminar each year. They have also done a lot of work in passing laws within GA to help HOA's, including the ability to become a POA.

JulieS (Georgia)
Posts: 412

Posted:

We do not publish delinquent assessment information of any type. I do let everyone know in the newsletter how much receivables are outstanding in total and what we are doing about it. Since being back on the board and a few people being majorly delinquent, we are stepping up in the collections and not allowing people to get more than a year or two behind. If they owe 2005 and 2006, then we are proceeding with lawsuits in August. Liens have already been filed.

LauraS (Georgia)
Posts: 4

Posted:

Julie, I live in GA and our HOA needs law help. Can you tell me who represents you?

JulieS (Georgia)
Posts: 412

Posted:

We use Weissman Nowack Curry & Wilco. Their website is: www.wncwlaw.com. Along with the newsletter and seminar, I am able to view our collection status via their website. We are pretty pleased with them and I highly recommend them.

LisaS (Illinois)
Posts: 341

Posted:

We have dealt with a similar situation. Because you have no statutory obligation to respond within a particular number of days, I would save up the onslaught of letters and simply send one every week or so thanking the gentleman for his concerns.

If it is something that really does need a response (like looking at the books), advise that he must schedule an appointment during business hours. Your state or CCR's should have the time frame you are required to produce them in. You do not need to go wherever he asks...that's foolish. I would never go to this guys house alone! (plus, no copying would be available).

He does mainatin the right to see the financials even if he does not pay his dues. But most other rights are lost. File a lien if he continues to withold payment. This shows the rest of your association that you take the role of fiduciary seriously and are defending their interests.

CCR's and the like in our state are available from the county recorders office. Difficult people get referred to them for copies on demand. They are vailable on our website in full (recorded copy scanned into pdf). The budget and financials appear as well. we have nothing to hide, so why not make it easy to access for all.

Good luck,
Lisa

MichelleW (Texas)
Posts: 25

Posted:

MORE DRAMA! I sent notices over the weekend to all owners that we plan to have an open board meeting in a few weeks as well as a notice regarding our intent to have pest control services conducted. Everyone has seemed fine with the notices; however, last night at midnight, our "difficult owner" opted to pound excessively (unfortunately my condo unit has an adjoining wall with his) on my bedroom wall waking me up and scaring me to death. He then moved to the living room adjoining wall and pounded there and then went to the lower level and pounded on the adjoining wall. I had no music playing and I was clearly asleep as none of my lights were on.

I'm a little concerned because I question the emotional stability of this guy. My bigger concern is he'll be receiving today by certified return receipt mail a letter from the Board giving him a final notice regarding his deliquent dues before we put a lien on his property. My plan at present is to just completely ignore him but I've notified the other Board member of this guy's antics. If it becomes a pattern of behavior then we'll have to do something more. Suggestions?

Also, I'm still looking for an online site that would have the Texas property lien papers? Anyone have such a resource?

JulieS (Georgia)
Posts: 412

Posted:

I would have called the police on him if he did that to me in the middle of the night.

PatriciaF (New Mexico)
Posts: 20

Posted:

Michelle
I have the Texas Lien Papers. I can email or mail them to you. I would keep a record of the dates and times he is harrassing you and don't hesitate to file a police report.

Patricia

MichelleW (Texas)
Posts: 25

Posted:

Patricia,
Thanks for the TX lien papers. Please email to [email protected]. Thanks!
Michelle

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Michelle:

Good luck with this dude!

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