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Subject: Bingo
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GlennE
(Florida)

Posts:30


02/23/2008 6:38 AM  
Now that I have our non-profit question answered I need to know about Bingo. The Bingo Board was in violation of
Florida Statute 849.0931. Our board told them they had to conform or else. We are not sure of the if we can do this.
Is Bingo playing under the HOA non-profit status or are they playing on their own. If they are on their own do they
need any type of license?
BrianB
(California)

Posts:2820


02/23/2008 7:03 AM  
i know nothing about the florida law, and nothing about your Bingo games.

If people pay money for the chance to play and win more money or value, that's gambling, and personally, i would stay far away from it. just too many people want pieces of that legal pie for me to swim in it (man, that's a couple mixed analogies). i would let some other entity take on that hassle, and simply stay away from gambling.

too much downside, and no upside that i can see.
GeraldT4


Posts:1022


02/23/2008 7:14 AM  
Glen - Are you sure your non-profit question was answered? Remember, DonnaS posted "I think that you should relook in your Articles Of Inc. document. The exact wording should be in there as to what your association is. NOT FOR PROFIT and NON PROFIT are totally different. I still bet that you are under NOT FOR PROFIT in Florida. This is very important because it tells you what tax form that you will need to file. Not For Profits are not taxed by the Federal Government except on earned interest monies so there is a huge difference."

I agree with BrianB's post to you regarding Bingo.
SusanW1
(Michigan)

Posts:5202


02/23/2008 9:12 AM  
CHARITABLE non profits (501)(c)(3) are able to hold BINGO games as a fundraiser for their programs. Homeowners Associations are not charities!!

The only revenue you can have is dues. Interest earned on investments is taxable.

If you want to have "fundraisers", you will have to form another group.

The women in our associaton are going to form a group whose sole purpose is to raise funds for the community center. NO funds will be co-mingled with the HOA's funds. This will be a separate group. We'll have bake sales, parties, etc.
DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


02/23/2008 9:15 AM  

Excellent job of paying attention Gerald.

This is exactly why I stressed over and over to check and see that the HOA is !!!!NOT FOR PROFIT!!! Our poster keeps saying NON PROFIT, which I believe they ARE NOT. The Bingo game would be okay in his NOT FOR PROFIT Corp. Until he gets that wording straightened out, the Non Profit laws will keep confusing everyone and that is imperative to get validated as to what their corp is..
DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


02/23/2008 10:29 AM  

Glenn,

You are a "NOT FOR PROFIT CORP." Below I have the paragraph from Statute 849.0931 which is what you have to follow for your Bingo games. You are not taxed on them

4) The right of a condominium association, a cooperative association, a homeowners' association as defined in s. 720.301, a mobile home owners' association, a group of residents of a mobile home park as defined in chapter 723, or a group of residents of a mobile home park or recreational vehicle park as defined in chapter 513 to conduct bingo is conditioned upon the return of the net proceeds from such games to players in the form of prizes after having deducted the actual business expenses for such games for articles designed for and essential to the operation, conduct, and playing of bingo. Any net proceeds remaining after paying prizes may be donated by the association to a charitable, nonprofit, or veterans' organization which is exempt from federal income tax under the provisions of s. 501(c) of the Internal Revenue Code to be used in such recipient organization's charitable, civic, community, benevolent, religious, or scholastic works or similar activities or, in the alternative, such remaining proceeds shall be used as specified in subsection (3).

501c3? Non-Profit vs Not for Profit?

What is the difference between non-profit and not-for-profit? Do you need a 501c3 for both? I have a great idea and I want to give back through a huge project I plan to get started within the current year. Can anyone help me differentiate between the two and what paths I would need to take for each?

Best Answer - Chosen by Voters
Non-Profit or charitable organizations raise funds to perform some charitable act or mission. Examples are the American red Cross or the United Way

Not-for-profit or fraternal organizations are a group of people that form an organization for fellowship. Examples would be the Eagles and the American Legion
RaymondC
(Minnesota)

Posts:64


02/23/2008 12:29 PM  
Nice job folks, and especially Donna!

This forum and not just this thread has consistently confused non-profit and not-for-profit organizations to everyones confusion. Some even insisting they are the same thing, which you clearly show they are not. Most, if not all HOA's are not-for-profit.

Now, the OP is probably in good shape in that respect so far, yet, msny communities, such as ours require that a not-for-profit corporation have a licence to hold bingo games. We have that licence, and all is well. I don't know what Florida requires, but his city, town, county, or other governing body may well have something to say on this.

And regardless of his status, regarding whether this game is an HOA activity or simply a group of people renting a common room to play, there is likely to be the same obligation to the HOA. If gambling is regulated in your community, you cannot host it in your community without complying with the law.

This is so, even though we have no revenue from these games. We start with a kitty of $15, and charge $1 for two cards. We pay out to each winner, until all the money is gone including the $15 starting money, and then the game ends. The license is prominetly posted as required.

Good luck to all.
GlennE
(Florida)

Posts:30


02/23/2008 12:43 PM  
Thanks for your answer Susan but it is not the HOA that is holding the bingo games it is just a group in the park. What we are trying to figure out is if they are under our non-profit status or not.
GlennE
(Florida)

Posts:30


02/23/2008 12:49 PM  
Well Raymond you can see some of the problems we are facing. We are non-profit according to our accountant and our by-laws, we are just trying to find out if Bingo falls under our non-profit or not. Thanks for your reply.

Glenn
GlennE
(Florida)

Posts:30


02/23/2008 1:04 PM  
Yes, Gerald I am now sure we are a non-profit organization. I have talked to our accountants, read it in our by-laws and had some of the board members research this and everything comes back non-profit for the state of
Florida. We do pay federal taxes so that is not a question. I don't play Bingo myself but it is very popular in
the park so we would like to see it continue we just can't seem to get any answers to wither we as the HOA
have anything to do with Bingo. Thanks for your reply.

Glenn
DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


02/23/2008 1:07 PM  

Glen,

This is my last attempt to get you to see this. It is quoted from State Statutes 720, which govern H.O.A's


720.302 Purposes, scope, and application.--

(1) The purposes of this chapter are to give statutory recognition to corporations """""not for profit """"that operate residential communities in this state, to provide procedures for operating homeowners' associations, and to protect the rights of association members without unduly impairing the ability of such associations to perform their functions.


You are required to be a NOT FOR PROFIT!!

Unless your Articles of Incorporation state otherwise, this is what you are by the Statutes
SusanW1
(Michigan)

Posts:5202


02/23/2008 1:12 PM  
Glenn, I;m confused.
What group is conducting the Bingo?
What are they doing with the proceeds of the games?

Did they pull a gaming permit for this Bingo? (Now, I know there are many, many groups playing Bingo without a licenes, and in Michigan, if the "prizes" are not worth over $5 each, no one will say anything. But if there are large "pots" and this is a large game, you need to know that they are being watched.)

How is you HOA involved? Is this your park they arE holding these games?

GlennE
(Florida)

Posts:30


02/23/2008 1:28 PM  
It is just a group of residents here in the mobile home park and there are no proceeds. All money is paid out and
I'm not sure of the amount you can win but it is very small. The question you asked is what I am trying to find
out, is our HOA involved or not.
GlennE
(Florida)

Posts:30


02/23/2008 1:34 PM  
OK Donna, I will get with the Secretary Monday and check the Articles of Incorporation. I sure would like to get
this straight in my mind before I get both feet wet. Thanks for the reply and I'll let you know what I find out.

Glenn
DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


02/23/2008 1:38 PM  

Glen,
Thank you. As you can see,I can be very persistant and I am fairly savy on the Statutes and there are certain items that are not vague. Not for Profit is one of them so I hope that your Secretary gives you the correct information. Good Luck to you
RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:5067


02/23/2008 4:33 PM  
Glenn, when a group of owners chose to play bingo that is not an HOA function. However, if they play in the common area of the HOA and their playing is sanctioned by the HOA then the HOA can be liable if those owners are breaking the laws regarding gambling. So I think the key question you need to answer is "Is bingo considered gambling in your state?"
DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


02/23/2008 4:40 PM  

Roger,
Florida Statue 513 relates to gambling and there are LOTS of restrictions, if's and's and but's to go with it. Bingo is considered gambling under certain circumstances and by who sponsors it. That is why I was so adament with Glenn to make sure he understood that they are a NOT FOR PROFIT corp which allows them certian allowances to play Bingo without tax concequences
GlennE
(Florida)

Posts:30


02/24/2008 6:32 AM  
Thanks Donna.
GlennE
(Florida)

Posts:30


02/24/2008 6:39 AM  
OK Roger, this is exactly what I am trying to determine. To answer your question, bingo does fall under the Florida Gaming Laws, statute 849.0931 which they were violating. They finally did comply with the law after we
threatened them. They do play in our activity center and I should mention that this park is a city owned mobile
home park. What I am trying to find out is do we have the right to threaten them to make them conform to the law.
Thanks for the reply Roger.

Glenn
SusanW1
(Michigan)

Posts:5202


02/24/2008 6:44 AM  
Glen,
If there are "no proceeds" and this is just a small group of people playing (not open to the general public), I would not make an issue out of it.
PaulM
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:1347


02/24/2008 7:11 AM  
GlennE: Be careful where you tread here. This is a group of neighbors who enjoy each other's company playing Bingo; or it could be cards, mahjongg, Monopoly or Ping Pong! Does the Association really want to start being the police and monitor how the games are being played?

GlennE
(Florida)

Posts:30


02/24/2008 4:13 PM  
You are exactly right Paul and that is the reason I am questioning what our position is. We did get them to stop
playing 3 times in one week which is a direct violation of Florida Gaming Laws and I would rather not have the
HOA involved with bingo at all but I can't seem to find out if they are playing under the HOA and when I do find
out at least I'll know where we stand. Thanks for the reply Paul.

Glenn
GlennE
(Florida)

Posts:30


02/25/2008 10:15 AM  
Lets hear it for Donna! You are absolutely correct that we are a not for profit corporation and it is indeed in
our articles of incorporation. Finally I have something in black and white. Now I have to figure out what not
for profit means for our HOA. Thank you very much Donna.

Glenn
DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


02/25/2008 11:02 AM  

Glen,
I just took a bow. Thanks for hanging in there with me. I know that I wanted you to have good information to make a good decision. Anytime my friend.
SusanW1
(Michigan)

Posts:5202


02/26/2008 5:54 AM  
Are you "involved" in a bridge game being played in your clubhouse. You said there were "no proceeds" and this was a small group of residents. Why the persistance with this group's activity?
GlennE
(Florida)

Posts:30


02/27/2008 5:50 AM  
I don't know where the bridge game came from but as I had stated earlier, that bingo was being played more than two times a week which is in violation of the Florida Statutes gaming law. What I meant is that all of the money
is paid out so there is no profit from the game. Thanks for your reply. Glenn
WillL1
(Florida)

Posts:4


09/08/2019 6:02 AM  
Hello, New to site. Florida HOA. I have a Q on the subject of selling food and drink at a Bingo game held in our community. The HOA President & Treasurer wants to join the 2 functions under one banner to avoid taxation. Is this legal? Welcome your input.
KerryL1
(California)

Posts:6606


09/08/2019 8:28 AM  
Welcome Will. Please start a new thread.
CathyA3
(Ohio)

Posts:396


09/08/2019 8:30 AM  
Posted By WillL1 on 09/08/2019 6:02 AM
Hello, New to site. Florida HOA. I have a Q on the subject of selling food and drink at a Bingo game held in our community. The HOA President & Treasurer wants to join the 2 functions under one banner to avoid taxation. Is this legal? Welcome your input.




Welcome!

Your question may get lost because it's tacked onto the end of an old thread. I suggest starting a new thread - we have a number of Florida residents on the site, so they should be able to answer your question.
PestY
(South Carolina)

Posts:118


09/08/2019 9:58 AM  
Posted By GlennE on 02/23/2008 1:28 PM
It is just a group of residents here in the mobile home park and there are no proceeds. All money is paid out and
I'm not sure of the amount you can win but it is very small. The question you asked is what I am trying to find
out, is our HOA involved or not.




Your HOA is NOT involved.

The HOA's BOD or a duly recognized committee of the HOA or BOD would need to actually 'run the Bingo' using association funds for the HOA to be involved.

The mere act of members using a common area park to run a Bingo does NOT involve the association.
PestY
(South Carolina)

Posts:118


09/08/2019 9:59 AM  
however:

should the BOD turn a knowing 'blind eye' upon ILLEGAL activities held upon association property ..................... ?
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