can all board meeting be open

Started by LupeD • 17 replies • 2657 views

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LupeD (Arizona)
Posts: 4

Posted:

i live in az and in a 150 unit hoa. we have had problems being heard by the board because they closed the meeting. through hard work and communicating with each other, four of the board members resigned.
all we have asked is that the meeting br open and that includes any finaces,fines,delinquencies,liens,vendor contracts,budgets,etc is this against the law?? the remaining board members are saying they can`t let us know any of these things and the mc is advising them. what can we do??

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820

Posted:

association members have an absolute right to attend meetings and see the board at work.

Boards in arizona are NOT subject to the AZ Open Meetings Laws (they are not governmental agencies). However, they are subject to either the Condo Standards or Planned Community Statutes. They must open their meetings to members of the community, but not necessarily to the general public.

they CAN close the meeting to do work on legal issues, discipline issues, and some other matters, but not for general work of the board, etc..

LupeD (Arizona)
Posts: 4

Posted:

so if no legal issues are on the agenda and bugets are the topic for disscussion we the members can sit in on those meeting??

LupeD (Arizona)
Posts: 4

Posted:

can these closed meetings for legal issues be changed by amending the by-laws and if so can it be done by introducing a resolution or by members votes?

HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906

Posted:

Lupe - Here is Arizona Revised Statue 33-1804, Planned communities

33-1804. Open meetings; exceptions

A. Notwithstanding any provision in the declaration, bylaws or other documents to the contrary, all meetings of the association and board of directors are open to all members of the association or any person designated by a member in writing as the member's representative and all members or designated representatives so desiring shall be permitted to attend and speak at an appropriate time during the deliberations and proceedings. The board may place reasonable time restrictions on those persons speaking during the meeting but shall permit a member or member's designated representative to speak before the board takes formal action on an item under discussion in addition to any other opportunities to speak. The board shall provide for a reasonable number of persons to speak on each side of an issue. Any portion of a meeting may be closed only if that closed portion of the meeting is limited to consideration of one or more of the following:

1. Legal advice from an attorney for the board or the association. On final resolution of any matter for which the board received legal advice or that concerned pending or contemplated litigation, the board may disclose information about that matter in an open meeting except for matters that are required to remain confidential by the terms of a settlement agreement or judgment.

2. Pending or contemplated litigation.

3. Personal, health and financial information about an individual member of the association, an individual employee of the association or an individual employee of a contractor for the association.

4. Matters relating to the job performance of, compensation of, health records of or specific complaints against an individual employee of the association or an individual employee of a contractor of the association who works under the direction of the association.

Harold

HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906

Posted:

can these closed meetings for legal issues be changed by amending the by-laws and if so can it be done by introducing a resolution or by members votes? >> No. That answer is found in the above statue and since state statue spells out when a board can go into closed session, you or your board cannot change that by amending your bylaws and CC&Rs because state statue trumps your bylaws and CC&Rs. The key words here are MAY BE ClOSED.... So it is the board's decision when to close the meeting for one of the stated reasons. A member cannot question a closed session unless you have absolute proof that discussions other than what the state specifies is going on in closed sessions. And how would anyone prove that?
Unfortunately one item in the above statue that many boards are not complying with: to allow members to speak while somethng is being discussed and before a vote is taken on that subject. Many boards do not allow members to speak at board meetings at all. Some allow a member to speak for 3 minutes BEFORE the meeting begins but not during the discussions. That is now against the law. But there is no one to enforce it. Harold

JulieS (Georgia)
Posts: 412

Posted:

Check your covenants and by-laws. Our's state that all meetings shall be open, non-board members cannot speak until acknowledged to do so, and that the board has the ability to go into a closed executive session (i.e. discussion of legal matters, etc.).

ReneeD (Illinois)
Posts: 201

Posted:

Harold, does this apply only in Arizona? How do I know if this applies for Illinois? re: your comments..."Unfortunately one item in the above statue that many boards are not complying with: to allow members to speak while somethng is being discussed and before a vote is taken on that subject. Many boards do not allow members to speak at board meetings at all. Some allow a member to speak for 3 minutes BEFORE the meeting begins but not during the discussions. That is now against the law. But there is no one to enforce it." Thanks. ReneeD

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820

Posted:

the arizona law Harold refers to applies only to arizona.

a google search for illinois would likely turn up anything for your state.

FrankD (Arizona)
Posts: 10

Posted:

I've been following this thread,have read the statute several times and the place I seem to keep getting stuck is the use of the word "may" in the statute. This seems to allow the board (at their discretion) to close a meeting.
If my understanding of the statute correct what prevents the By-Laws from being amended to take that discretionary power away from the board.
Only allowing a closed meeting when it is specifically required by statute.

SwanB (Washington)
Posts: 199

Posted:

The statute uses the word 'may' because a board does need to go into a closed session for some personnel, legal or financial discussions. Before going into the closed session, it is characteristic for the board to announce what reason they are closing the session and then they can only discuss and act on the reason they stated they were going into the closed session. Minutes are taken of the closed session but those minutes are not available to the general membership.
For example our board has entered into a closed session to discuss the renewal of our caretaker's annual contract or the filing of a legal suit against a contractor who has damaged community property and a member's property.

FrankD (Arizona)
Posts: 10

Posted:

Here is a copy of the part of the statute that I'm most concerned with:
Any portion of a meeting may be closed only if that closed portion of the meeting is limited to consideration of one or more of the following:

1. Legal advice from an attorney for the board or the association. On final resolution of any matter for which the board received legal advice or that concerned pending or contemplated litigation, the board may disclose information about that matter in an open meeting except for matters that are required to remain confidential by the terms of a settlement agreement or judgment.

2. Pending or contemplated litigation.

3. Personal, health and financial information about an individual member of the association, an individual employee of the association or an individual employee of a contractor for the association.

4. Matters relating to the job performance of, compensation of, health records of or specific complaints against an individual employee of the association or an individual employee of a contractor of the association who works under the direction of the association.

Note the sentence "Any portion of a meeting may be closed only if that closed portion of the meeting is limited to consideration of one or more of the following:"

If a board is required to close a meeting why is the phrase "may be closed" instead of "shall be closed" used?

Our purpose in seeking this information is to force a very "closed" board to open their meetings and records.

WilliamS1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 113

Posted:

I would like to know the law in South Carolina regarding open meetings. I have searched DOGPILE with no good results - any "key word" or website ideas?

I am on our board and most meetings are all open - however - here is my question -

Our board is going into some serious discussion about assesments, reserves and yearly budgets that we don't want just anyones informal spin getting out prematurely. The meeting plan currenlty suggests go over minutes, managers report, open up to the membership for any questions/comments and then close the meeting for special board business.

Does this seem acceptable?

I will appreciate your comments!!

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067

Posted:

No William, this is not acceptable in an open Board meeting. Such financial matters do not qualify for calling an executive session.

WilliamS1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 113

Posted:

Is this not acceptable in general or in our specific state? I was hoping for more of an explanation.

The problems -

1. We have a lady who loves to distract our board with idle chit chat, lots of whispers, comments and eye movements. We have a board of 9 members and we all work, and we try to keep the meetings to 1.5 to 2 hours but this lady throws us off. Several of the board are so irritated with her that there has been several verbal confrontations with her during the meeting. She threatens us with idle threats and some several times we have adjourned the meeting early just to avoid the continued harassment.

2. We usually have 3-5 people in monthly attendance (out of 110 townhomes) but our board acts different when other people are there. We have found ourselves much more productive when we are not having to esplain or over explain each comment.

Thanks

JulieS (Georgia)
Posts: 412

Posted:

We have a sepaerate budget meeting outside of the monthly board meeting, which is not announced. Additionally, we do a lot of things by email which shortens the amount of time required for meetings. We had this same problem with a homeowner and our docs state that members cannot participate in any discussion unless acknowledged to do so. Personally, if this type of disruption were to happen in a meeting I was participating in, I would let the person know that they are being disruptive and if the behavior continues they will need to leave.

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067

Posted:

William, the Chair needs to learn how to control a meeting in order to eliminate this unacceptable behavior.. The problem person should not be allowed to speak unless recognized by the Chair. If they disrupt the meeting they should be warned that if they disrupt the meeting they will be asked to leave. And don't hesitate to remove this disruptive guest.

SwanB (Washington)
Posts: 199

Posted:

A board meeting is for the board to do the business of the board and, while it should remain open to the members, that doesn't mean the structure of the meeting should lack control. The board meeting isn't a community meeting and there should be rules about members talking or contributing.
Our board meetings are presided over by the President and follow the agenda set by him or her. At the beginning of the meeting there is a slot for community members to be recognized and speak to the board. If those members are bringing issues for the board to deal with those issues are put into the agenda either in a Director's report or under 'Unfinished Business' or 'New Business'. The member is then welcome to remain at the meeting or leave with the assurance the Secretary will be in touch with them within a week as to the outcome of the action or determination.
We generally allocate five minutes per member unless there are more than ten members who want to speak, then we cut the time down more.
Our board meetings are usually 2 1/2 to 3 hours long.

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