DavidH4
(Florida)
Posts:35
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| 05/15/2006 3:52 PM |
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Our documents (CCR's or Covenants and By-laws) provide that no For Sale signs are permitted to b placed in the yards, however we ahve Real Estate people outting them in the yards despite the warnings.
Legally, can we enforce the documents and fines them or put liens on the property? Can we remove the signs without breaking the law? |
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BrianB
(California)
Posts:1741
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| 05/15/2006 4:29 PM |
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you can enforce the rules. You can follow the process and fine the owners. You cannot walk onto the property and remove the signs (trespassing).
I suggest calling each realtor whose sign in out there, and telling them: Please be sure, in the interest of full disclosure, to tell all potential buyers that they will be inheriting a fine/fee of $XXX for the previous owner's illegal display of a for sale sign.
That will get their attention, and most likely, the sign will be immediately removed. THey don't want to tell ANY buyer anything about "more money" in the sales process. |
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HaroldS
(Arizona)
Posts:904
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| 05/15/2006 5:02 PM |
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Our documents (CCR's or Covenants and By-laws) provide that no For Sale signs are permitted to b placed in the yards, however we ahve Real Estate people outting them in the yards despite the warnings.
Legally, can we enforce the documents and fines them or put liens on the property? Can we remove the signs without breaking the law?
BrianB
David - what an asinine rule. How does your association expect homes to sell? We're told constantly that HOAs are supposed to protect and enhance resale value. How can that be if you can't even put out a sign that it is for sale? I particularly like Brian's suggestion to call each real estate person and tell them to be sure they give FULL DISCLOSURE as to what the buyer is getting into buying a home in your development. That ought to drive the buyers away fast. So much for resale value.
The rules being reported here get more stupid every day. Who is dreaming up these things? Harold |
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RogerB
(Colorado)
Posts:3701
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| 05/15/2006 8:09 PM |
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| Rules need to be reasonable. I recommend amending CC&Rs and Rules and Regulations to allow up to a specified number, size, and type of sign for sale of home and for a security sign. |
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Roger Borcherding
Official HOATalk.com Sponsor
DARCO Property Management (Colorado)
(303) 925-0150 
*See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal |
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DavidH4
(Florida)
Posts:35
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| 05/15/2006 8:19 PM |
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| Harold, the reason for no signs is to enhance the beauty of the neighborhood. Real Estate statistics say that 71% of home sales are initiated on the internet. There are hundreds of different signs from real estate companies and realtors that have streamers, balloons etc that end up all over the neighborhood and no one is there to clean up their mess. |
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CalvinC
(Florida)
Posts:20
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| 05/16/2006 2:38 AM |
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| Our guidlines state a certain size type and color to maitain uniformity. |
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JulieS
(Georgia)
Posts:412
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| 05/16/2006 10:12 AM |
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I recommend changing the covenants also. Our neighborhood allows for one sign of a certain size. Also, realtor signs cannot be placed at the entrance of the neighborhood.
While the internet is a good source for homebuying, many people want to live in a specific neighborhood and will drive through it looking for homes that are for sale rather than relying on a realtor and the MLS listings.
I agree that the rule is more harmful than helpful and it would benefit the neighborhood to change it. By not doing so, you are alienating the realtors and future residents, let alone a quicker sale of your neighbor's home. |
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SwanB
(Washington)
Posts:194
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| 05/16/2006 12:02 PM |
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| Our HOA also has a ruling on a specific size sign for home sales and it works well. All the realtors work with us and we have not encountered any alienation. |
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AngelaW
(California)
Posts:3
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| 05/16/2006 2:29 PM |
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"Real Estate statistics say that 71% of home sales are initiated on the internet. "
That statistic does not surprise me but in my humble opinion the agent has a great deal of influence ---(particularly in a buyers market) so that 71% could be turned off by the news that the board is "unreasonable and assesses fines for real estate signs". And the other 29% may be generated by the agent--so you risk loosing some sales which impact comps. Of course homeowners could become more irritated and highly motived to drop the price hence effecting value. Personally-- I would not live in a community that adopted policies counter-productive to value regardless of the market.
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HaroldS
(Arizona)
Posts:904
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| 05/16/2006 3:52 PM |
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I see no one has information or wants to admit who is dreaming up these rules. They just occurred out of the blue I guess "to protect our property values." Eventually I would hope common sense will re-emerge - sooner rather than later.
Has anyone done a study of HOA home values vs similar non HOA home values - after adjusting the sales price to reflect all the "fees" paid over the years, vs the same house in a non HOA neighborhood that did not have to pay these fees? I would wager that the HOA mantra of "maintaing property values" is a fiscal crock. In the end, all we've done is provide a great living for the HOA industry. Harold |
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DavidH4
(Florida)
Posts:35
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| 05/16/2006 5:08 PM |
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From Dave H
I really appreciate all of the input from you folks. Our Board Meeting is Thursday and I will share your comments with the other board memebers and owners. Of course, I am only one of five members of the board and will not have much weight when it comes to a vote.
Thanks |
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SwanB
(Washington)
Posts:194
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| 05/17/2006 6:28 AM |
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HaroldS: Actually we have assessed our property values as a gated community within a smaller rural town. Our HOA has tennis courts, a clubhouse, swimming pool, etc. that the town doesn't have access to. As does another gated HOA in the same town. Both of the HOA's property values are much higher than the houses available in town and this has been consistent for over 30 years.
However we are a rural community close to a national forest and the draw is outdoor recreational and quiet, slow living.
With the Winter Olympics coming close to us, our property values also have shot up astonomically over the past two to five years. Lots from $4,000 to $15,000; houses from $120,000 to $210,000. The jump has not been as great for the non HOA homes.
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HaroldS
(Arizona)
Posts:904
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| 05/17/2006 10:35 AM |
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Swan - Yes, but did you factor in the fees you paid over these 30 years when you stated your property values were much higher than other nearby property. Actually you aren't comparing similar properties since you state the in-town homes do not have your amenities.
Try to compare HOAs with only minimal common area such as a drainage basin, with non-HOA homes of similar square footage and appearance, and then deduct the fees paid by the HOA home to compare the real increases in value. In other words, your monthly or annual out of pocket fees paid has to be deducted from your "value". That's money you had to pay in order to retain that so called value. Obviously the non-HOA home did not have to pay those additional expenses. Harold |
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DavidP1
(Georgia)
Posts:6
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| 05/17/2006 10:52 AM |
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| I'd say NO. HOA homes DO NOT appreciate in value more than non HOA homes. But HOA's can create a better quality of live for the residents |
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DavidP1
(Georgia)
Posts:6
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| 05/17/2006 10:54 AM |
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Posted By DavidP1 on 05/17/2006 10:52 AM
I'd say NO. HOA homes DO NOT appreciate in value more than non HOA homes. But HOA's can create a better quality of live for the residents
I'd also like to point out that HOAs make it easier to deal with a horrible neighbor. |
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hoatalk
Posts:487
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| 05/17/2006 2:44 PM |
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To follow-on David's comment:
...and HOAs provide access to affordable amenities that otherwise would not exist. The homes in the city mentioned above that don't have tennis, pools, etc. don't have them because they are not in a HOA, thus the only way for them to have those would be through an expensive, private country club.
People want grand entrances, common landscaping, tennis, pools, playgrounds, walking trails, elevators in condos, etc. so developers must provide them and they create HOAs to pay for them. Developers (& buyers) want the community to look nice during the years it takes to build one out, so developers want CCRs, so they form the HOA to be able to enforce CCRs.
Bottom line is market forces drive our country and the market wants amenities and well-kept neighborhoods. Until another legal structure offers this, HOAs and their relatives will continue on.
Whether or not HOAs add value is an interesting subject, but the point of this website is to help current HOA leaders learn and do the best possible job to improve our communities.
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DavidH4
(Florida)
Posts:35
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| 05/17/2006 2:58 PM |
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Thank you. Everyone was given a copy of the CCR's when they signed a contract. They had evey opportunity to bail out of the sale before construction actually began on their house. Most people were buying to live in the community, others were investors looking to flip it as soon as they could make a hundred thousand in the booming Panama City Beach real estate market. Now the market has hit bottom and they are pulling out all stops to make a sale, including violating the documents that they sign for and agreed on.
Dave H |
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SwanB
(Washington)
Posts:194
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| 05/17/2006 4:10 PM |
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| HaroldS: Our annual dues are very small and we did factor in those dues when comparing with 'in town' homes. And the nearby properties which are not in gated, HOAs but located in the town are comparable by square footage and appearance. |
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