CCR'S changes

Started by JillC • 11 replies • 1268 views

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JillC (California)
Posts: 26

Posted:

I am back again with another question. We had a vote to change an amendment.
This is the breakdown.
45 members
18 in favor
13 against
14 ballots not returned

The board said it passed. I explained how the process works and that it did not pass.

So now the board has decided that they are going to take a revote in 2 weeks and have sent homeowners a letter saying they need 51% to reach quoram. After they get quoram, they only need 67% of the votes of the ballots that are returned. The CCR
say "67% of members to vote in favor" I know I read it to say that we need
67% of the 45 members to vote "yes" or in our case 31 "yes" votes. Please clear this up for me. I am the only board member that reads the CCR's. The rest govern by majority rule. Thank You in advance for your opinion.
Jill

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Jill,
As you remember from your previous post on this question, there was a definite split on how the missing ballots were to be counted. As far as every association that I work with, those 14 missing ballot count as a non vote or commonly known as a NO or abstention, therefore your amendment passed.We have some posters who are not in agreement with that but if you are so unsure, just call an association attorney and ask how he feels they should be counted.

JC3
Posts: 290

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DonnaS on 01/11/2008 8:31 AM

We have some posters who are not in agreement with that but if you are so unsure, just call an association attorney and ask how he feels they should be counted.

And remember, his FEELING is his OPINION. Except that his feeling and his legal opinion may be different, so you might want to ask about that, too.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Correct, ask for his legal opinion.

PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347

Posted:

DonnaS: Just when I thought I had this figured out...now this!!! Pls. explain how you believe Jill's assn. vote passed. Assn. document states the vote must be...67% of members to vote YES to pass. Only 18 members voted yes out of 45 total members.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Paul,
As I stated above, this has been argued until we finally called a truce on the original thread. But here is MY along with Gloria's and quite a few more who stated to the best of their knowledge, how this number was arrived at.

There are 45 members eligable to vote .
To pass an amendment, they need 67% of the 45 members.
67% is 31 votes to pass.
45 votes
18 yeses were counted
13 no's were counted
14 were non votes--which when counting all ballots that were presented for a vote, are counted as no or non committment,

Therefore, 18 yes and 14 non or no's add up to 32 which in this case is a passing number.
I had copied a paragraph from Roberts Rules, stating that a non vote is a non committment or abstention, therefore counted as a no

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

OH MY GOD, You guys,
I must have had a dyslexic moment. I reversed the numbers!!! There were 18 yeses and 27 NO's No wonder you are confused Paul. So sorry. I am glad you asked why I counted that way.

GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022

Posted:

JillC - The farce and debate of unwisely counting ballots not returned as non-votes aside, those that do govern in your board do so by stupidity, not majority rule. The majority haven't voted in favor or against anything yet. You are correct in your reading, 67% of the total 45 membership is needed to pass. Unless there is some procedure that requires otherwise, I don't see why you have to take a revote. Just try to collect the outstanding ballots. If 2 or 3 more of the ballots not returned vote no, than the measure officially fails.

PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347

Posted:

DonnaS: I know about those moments...but, no, that's not why I asked.

To reiterate Jill's CC&Rs verbiage..."67% of members to vote in favor", I interpretthis TO NOT MEAN 67% of members present at the meeting in which those present will cast a vote;--but, instead, 67% of ALL MEMBERS/OWNERS whether you arrive at 67%'YES through a vote in person, or by proxy, or absentee ballots, but 67% of ALL MEMBER OWNERS voting YES to pass. It is not the same thing.

And, although...67% of members present voting YES would be valid and legal for an election, or a vote on an added rule, I don't believe the same reasoning can be used for an amendment vote. Is this the wrong way to think it through?

GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022

Posted:

PaulM - Everyone's gov. docs. are different, as you know. Typically if the gov. docs. don't state otherwise, the percentage requirement is by person or by proxy, therefore a vote by the majority of the total membership for a rule change. An election typically requires a quorum percentage in person or proxy and then a majority of those present in person or proxy for or against a candidate.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Jill says the CC&Rs say 67% of the members, which is 45 members times 67% equals 31 votes to pass. Jill stated the the Board sent the letter saying that 67% of members who vote. YES, you are so right. That is a whole different number. Jill is looking for some way to get it into the heads of the other Board members that they are not following their own CC&Rs. Here again, when you get some Board members that cannot read and understand what the CC&Rs mean, then it takes a professional to interpret it for them.

JillC (California)
Posts: 26

Posted:

THANK YOU ALL Now I know I am not the insane one, just the only one that reads the CCR's. It will take 31 of the 45 members to vote Yes for the amendment change. So we wait and see. The first vote was on December 13th. The board did not like the outcome so they are sending out another ballot for a vote to be on Feb 12th. I guess if that does not pass they will take another vote. I smell a recall in the air!!!!!
Jill

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