Workmen's Compensation Insurance

RobertF,
This is a tough one to answer. Would have to know more about what is common property. Is the Association is responsibile for upkeep of the exterior of the units, what else does the association provide. Swimming pool, spa, tennis courts, etc. It would seem to me that the more the regime takes care of the more likely they may need workmans comp. You may be ridig about your contractors to require Workmans comp, but just suppose somkeone does do work on a private residence and that work is paid by an owner and the work might involve some of the associations responsibility. For instance, plumbing, structural modification, electric service, window replacements, some kid to pick up trash or be a general handyman gofer, etc.

I see no point in paying for something that you dont use by I can also see where worksman comp might be a good idea due to the fuzziness of who is responsible for what in Condos.

So, in effect, I can't really say one way or the other. Also the cost would be a factor. Maybe you can't afford it.

Robert,
Your D & O insurance is to cover your BOD and a liability insurance for them. The pool and other common areas are covered by another type of liability insurance. I would NOT carry a workmans comp policy because that is why you carry the liability policy. I undersatnd that these are 2 different types of coverages but comp is not your responsibility. If your board is diligent on hiring only contractors with insurance , then workmans comp is no concern of the association.
By the way, Florida requires all service provider with contractors to have their own insurance so no need for the comp--again.

Your state should have a pool that you can get into. How much is the cost per year?

What if the Treasurer slips on ice while on an errand for the Association?

Or the President falls off the roof when inspecting damage?

RobertF: ..."We have no employees and all work is done by contractors who must provide a certificate of coverage for workmen's comp."

PaulM: ..."Based on the above, we would be interested in knowing the reason why your attorney suggested you/assn. also have coverage."

The attorney believes it is a safety net just in case something happens to someone who is not covered by an employer's workmen's compensation. Florida law allows employers with less than 4 employees to be exempted from the requirement to have Workmen's Comp. In addition, an employer can choose to self insure. Assuming the employer doesn't have the money, the Association would probably be liable.

MikeS1: .... "When you say that the "homeowner is responsible for obtaining insurance on the house", this almost leads me to believe that you have a regular homeowner policy (old ISO form HO3) policy on the home to include the entire dwelling as it stands. Is that correct? If so, I just have never seen this before.

Then there is what the insurance company calls "insurable interest". Who owns the dwelling?.. and how does the HOA documents define Common Elements, limited common elements. Maybe I misread something here, but this just sound very unique."

We are unique. Our initial assessment was very high due to the insurance costs paid by the association. We modified our doc's and the homeowner is responsible for "all" insurance coverage on their homes. This includes the entire dwelling and even flood insurance. The home is defined as the house, driveway, entrance walkway and the mailbox (which is on a post shared with one neighbor). The homeowner owns the ground upon whch the house stands. The common elements then become everything else within the complex.

Mike and Robert,

Robert, what Mike and I are getting at, I think, is how did your documents come about and are you listed as a corporation (INC.)under the Florida statutes. What you are describing to me is not a condo but an HOA. I just can't figure out HOW and WHY you ended up the way you are. Since you can't be very unique, only unique (one of a kind)I bet dollars to pennies you didn't start out that way. If we read right you have changed your documents, you did that? Was it registered with your Master deed and By-laws at court house?
I am like Mike, I don't know what to answer and don't know what to question. Who does your books, do you have a board, do they keep records, do they file the proper tax papers, does the state bill you for property taxes, you, meaning the regime, on land you own jointly? What happend if one of those tornados come through your area. You really need some professional advice. Maybe you are located close to Donna and she might be talked into taking a consultant fee to look at your complex. Maybe you are doing what everyone else ought to be doing and we are out of step (majority), I just don't know.
Mike, your posts are on point and a fresh voice.

RobertR1 and Mike.
Yes, we are listed as a Corporation. Yes, we passed an amendment to the Declaration of Condominium whereby we placed the resposibility for insurance on each unit owner. Yes, the change was registered at the Court House. We have a management company that takes care of our books and all required filings. Yes, we have a 3 member board. As previously stated, these are detached single family condominiums.

To provide a little background, our development consists of 66 single family homes (22 of which are classified as condominiums) and is governed by a Home Owners Board of Directors (The Master Board, which is incorporated). The Master serves as an umbrella over the condominiums in that we are bound by all of their documents. However, the condominium section was also incorporated and has a Board of Directors and a complete set of documents of our own. When we received the Association from the developer we considered changing to a HOA; however, the cost and time involved to accomplish this was extensive. In addition, the 22 units in the condo section all rest on different size lots. To try and separate these into individual lots would be very difficult. With these factors to consider, the Board decided to remain as condo's, the residents agreed. Hope this sheds some light on the WHO, WHY, and HOW.

RobertF,
Now I read that at one time the developer ran your condominiums. When he was in charge you were a condo. How did he assess each unit? When you bought and he was in charge, did you pay him your fees? Was each unit fee the same? You state you take care of landscaping of some desiginated property. How is that assessed?
If you have any common property who holds deed to that?

I don't doubt that you are what you say you are, but my problem is are you what you should be to protect the association (members).

I live on an island. We have a POA we belong to, as does eah owner on the island no matter where they live. We also have HOA's and Condos that are governed by their own set of documents, HOA's and Condo's. We own the entire 4 1/2 acres on the ocean and we have 65 units that vary in size and configuration. We probably have 10 0r twelve different assessments amounts. Each owner owns an apportionment. The total of all the apportions is 100%. Voting, for BOD and any membership decision are voted by apportion.

Now you are the same up to a point. You are saying, I think, each unit doesn't count. But if you have to pay an association bill or vote or make a decision, then the votes of the units that don't count, because they are separate individual properties, are used to decide what to do. I just can not see that being a condo but a HOA.

But I know you are a condo from what you write, I'm just too dumb to see it.

RobertR1 - Okay, let's start at the beginning. When our property was first laid out it was divided into 23 lots and designated as a detached single family condominium. Each lot, except the one designated for a swimming pool, was to have a house built on it. The plot map defined which type of house could be built on each lot. We have four different houses, with each being a different size. The developer had a Property Management Company handle all the bookeeping, reporting, etc. A budget was prepared and then as assessment was established by dividing the amount needed to satisfy the budget by 22 (the number of eventual houses). As a result, until the last house was built, the budget had a shortfall that was to be covered by the developer. An association was established and incorporated with a three position board consisting of one resident and the developer (2 positions). Each homeowner was allotted one vote while the developer had 2 votes. Once the last house was built the developer turned the association over to the homeowners and a new board was elected consisting of only homeowners. A new budget was established to cover the costs of maintaining the grounds, insurance, management company expenses, etc., and the assessment was determined by dividing the amount needed by 22. Thus each homeowner pays the same assessment. Maintenance of the grounds was contracted out to a landscaping company. Ownership of the common ground is deeded to the Association with each homeowner having an equal share. Our initial assessment was very high due to the cost of insurance covering the exteriors of each home. We determined that this assessment could be significantly reduced if the homeowner assumed the responsibility for their own insurance. An amendment to our Declaration was drawn up and approved by the homeowners. In short, each house pays a quarterly assessment which will satisfy the requirements of the budget. Each house has one vote on any and all items requiring a vote, i.e, election of board, changes to by-laws, etc. The common ground belongs to each homeowner (in equal parts) but is deeded to the Association for the purpose of taxes and maintenance. Does this clarify anything?