Should this HOA really continue? Too many problems! Any suggestions please?

Do you own the land that you sit on or is it leased/rented? Quote for us any Documents that you have regarding Common Property or Common Expense. We will be able to help after that.

YES we do OWN both land AND our trailer.

Yes we will check into the county records to see if there is anything in record there. Most people didn't go to this meeting and I'm sure they would not bother if the HOA was dissolved. We talk to some of our nearby neighbors and they say they would fare better without it. Nobody sign any papers saying we agree with it. If we don't pay the dues they say they put our property in a lien. That's what they say. Like I said before, the last papers were from 1981, and they never updated it or changed anything. Basically in the papers it states that we are a single family home, keep the grass cut and free of debris, trailers in a decent shape (clean, repaired), no pets walking around (there are many stray cats from a neighbor's house reproducing and spreading more kittens around our community, although nobody says anything). Well basically we are to keep our property looking decent, but we are solely responsible for it in all terms. Would a petition be necessary to dissolve it? if all the unhappy homeowners signed? Where should we take this document to? THanks a lot!

AND, go to all the meetings from now on to keep tabs on things and vote them down. Maybe you and the others can get on the board if needed and put an end to this new association that way.

StephenW3, when you bought your land, in the mountain of documents that you had to sign there would have been notice of the HOA and the fact that by purchasing the property you were joining it. Did you have an attorney looking out for your rights when you purchased? This would have been the time to hire the attorney to look out for your interests and explain anything you didn't understand or did you rely on the statements of the seller or the Realtor who do not have a vested interest in you? If you'll read the different threads here you will find that most people do not get involved with their HOA's unless their dues go up or the HOA is enforcing against them and just because your documents are from 1981 unless they have and expiration clause, IMO they are still valid.

As to the $1,000 it probably goes to things like insurance, maybe a State filing fee and taxes if any on common areas like where the sign sits. As to the HOA you have the right to know how your dues are being spent. An HOA is a business and you are the shareholder you own 1/40th of the business. If a very small percentage voted and won either they were the majority of the people there or your documents like most REQUIRE 100% to vote to end an HOA. Instead of listening to second or third hand accounts of what went on, get off your duff and go to the meetings, ask questions and get involved.

Since you're in a trailer community the church was probably used to accommodate the possible crowd, 40 times two people per trailer would be stretching even a doublewides capacity and I would imagine if it was the president's church they probably got a break on the rental of the hall. Another use of the $1,000 you seem to feel they are cheating everyone out of; most documents require at least an annual meeting

P.S. If you go in with an attitude do not be surprised if people get defensive; as my momma used to say: "You can catch more flies with sugar than with vinegar." If you go to the BOD and ask politely (at least the first time) for someone to explain things; I'm sure someone will.

P.P.S. Regarding the cats you can call your county animal control to deal with them, in a lot of areas it's against the law to let them run free, just like it is with a dog.

Well we were just looking at the paperwork we signed... actually it does say about the HOA, which for this yr we paid $15.40 when we bought this place back in March 07. What we don't realy understand is why is the need to keep this HOA!? Since everyone is responsible for themselves...
Anyway, we knew about this HOA as when we purchased the home. We didn't have a realtor, we dealt straight with the previous owners. They did tell us everything and said it was very likely that the HOA would not continue because it had been over a yr at the time that they did not hold a meeting or send any documents/papers to the other homeowners. I don't know what the interest would be from the people (very few) who re elected these people to be in charge other than collect our money. We dont' have attitude, the only thing is we want to understand what's going on. Like some people already said, we have the right to. We had never resided in a subdivision before and to be honest, if we had really investigated that before, we would not have purchased this place. Although is peaceful and relatively orderly (except for the stray cats).
By the way we called the animal control, but they can't do anything about it. They said we can choose to rent a trap for $30 and once we catch the cat, we give them a call and they come get the animal. There is one thing the HOA should be doing (as stated in the bylaws from 81) but they pretend they don't notice.
Anyway, thanks a lot... more suggestions and comments are always helpful to us!

Since you say this is the first time you've lived in a subdivision I won't yell too much about that statement. Not living in an HOA does not make neighbors good or bad, nor does living in one; a nice theory but one no more workable than communism. The neighborhood I grew up in had no HOA and yet the family four houses down had 14 or more cats that they let run free until they disappeared one by one. The guy three houses down bought a travel trailer 40 some foot long and silver which he parked beside his house. I could go on but hopefully you get my point that the same stuff happens, HOA or no HOA.

Steven,
Being that you are a "Mobile Home Park", you fall under Florida State Statutes 723, the Florida Mobile Home Act .

Go to Google and key in Florida Mobile Home Statutes. It is the first listing . Click on this and it will answer all of your questions. It will tell you how to dissolve, what your rights are, etc.

In the bylaws (you do have a copy, don't you?) the MISSION and PURPOSE of the associaton would be stated. As someone else said, most likely this is a "voluntary" association, since you say no services are provided and no land or assets are held in common. So I'm not sure where the lien capability comes from.

The secretary should have all the corporation papers. Also ask to see the Articles of Incorporation. They will state the purpose of the group.

You can call your State agency that oversees the coporations and ask if this corporation is even filed with them. Also, check with the county.

And our subdivision is not classified as "Mobile Home Park".

Steven,
What are you classified as with the State? You should have "Articles of Inc someplace and that will tell you exactly what the original HOA was filed under. This is the HUGE issue here and that is what are you filed under.

I have spent much time today reading the Statute 723 which IMHO is what your Association is filed under. It is VERY lengthy and perhaps you did not read down far enough where it addresses owners of property within the mobile home community. Below is just 1 very breif paragraph on an association within 723. I hope that you go back and read your rights within this Statute.

3) In the event that the owners of lots in a mobile home subdivision share common areas, recreational facilities, roads, and other amenities with the owners of mobile homes in a mobile home park and the mobile home owners have created a mobile home owners' association pursuant to ss. 723.075-723.079, said mobile home owners' association shall be the authorized representative of owners of lots in said mobile home subdivision provided:

(a) The members of the mobile home owners' association have, by majority vote, authorized the inclusion of subdivision lot owners in the mobile home park homeowners' association; and

(b) The owners of lots in the mobile home subdivision are entitled to vote only on matters that effect their rights contained in ss. 723.002(2) and 723.074.

History.--s. 11, ch. 99-382; s. 57, ch. 2000-258.

Copyright © 1995-2007 The Florida Legislature • Privacy Statement • Contact Us

Hello again Donna, thank you so much for taking the time to help us. Anyway, we are not sure what kind of classification we fall under, state or what. It will be hard to get the 100% of all the homeowners to agree, since there is that tiny minority have already set the rules that the association shall continue. We don't understand why they could perpetuate this HOA because only 5 or 6 people went to the meeting, and they won to continue it. And then now if most want to dissolve the HOA we need ALL of them to vote for. They were talking about taking the sign down because it has been there forever, it is actually missing a lot of letters of the Estates name. Nobody cares really, because we only have 3 streets in the whole association and all of them have street names. We cannot contact the President because he is never home. We would like to take a look at the Budget papers because they said there is money in the reserve from the previous yrs, so they say! And the sign is still falling apart and that is really the only expense they have in our HOA. We don't know if they filed taxes for it. It's something to investigate. We have no money to hire a lawyer, we work full time, my wife and I, and seems that nobody else wants to butt in and help us understand these matters. All the neighbors are acting like "we pay them their yearly dues and be done with it". They are not worried with any improvements or where the reserve money is/or if there is any left. Like I said before it would be nice if we have significant benefits to be part of our HOA, but there is really none. We don't like to mess with politics, besides everything that's what this is. And there is always someone making money on someone else. Anyway, I really appreciate all your information but we feel that nothing is going to improve and then comes February and all the HOA will be just paying the dues and life goes on. We feel hopeless.

YUP! I understand. There are processes in place and it will be in your best interest to use them. The unleashed dog who attacked you and your dogs. That is your town or County animal enforcement. If the dog is loose again, call on her. Obviously your ByLaws aren't pertaining to her.
If you are questioning where these dues are going, then get a copy of the budget. If they won't give you one, then demand a copy. They are required by law to give it to you. If they refuse, then the Fl. Attorney General is who enforces this part.

But most important, I NEED to know how you are incorporated. Florida has many Statutes to protect you as either a HOA, CONDO OR MOBILE HOME association. Because you have said that you have a mobile home , that eliminates condo so it one or the other HOA or Mbile Home. Once we have that for sure, the pertaining Statutes has all of the steps nescessary to get things straightened out. Look in the mound of documents that you got at closing and in the middle should be your Articles of Inc. which will tell you what you are.

My Pleasure, You have my interest sparked.

Hi I'm back... got the papers here. Right at the beginning it says "Walter William Investment CO., a Florida corporation, is the owner of the following described real property in Polk County, Florida, described as:

Lots 1 through 45, inclusive, Indian Ridge, as per the Plat thereof recorded in Plat Book 87, Page 25, Public Records of Polk County, Florida.

WHEREAS, the Owner of said real property desires to impose Restrictive Covenants and Conditions on said real property for the benefit of subsequent Grantees which Restrictive Covenants and Conditions shall be deemed to be covenants and conditions running with the land.

NOW, THEREFORE, the following Restrictive Covenants and Conditions are hereby imposed upon each Lot as described hereinabove; the breach of which prior to January 1, 2015 A.D. shall not give rise to a possibility of reverter of right of entry for condition broken on the part of the Owner but shall entitle any record owner of any one Lot hereinabove described to proceed with legal action to prevent the futherance of any breach of said Restrictive Covenants and Conditions and/or for damages resulting from said breach. Failure to enforce in whole or in part any of said Restrictive Covenants or Conditions for any length of time shall not estop any party so entitled from enforcing same; however, the present Owner shall not be liable or responsible in any way for its failure to enforce any part of the Restrictive covenants or Conditions so enumerated. Further, invalidation of any one or any part of one of these Restrictive Covenants and Conditions by judgment of Order of Court will in no way affect any of the other Restrictive Covenants or Conditions herein set out, and such other Restrictive Covenants or Conditions shall remain in full force and effect.

(Now they list the responsibilities of each lot owner as to how many people can dwell, no business activity shall be conducted, garbage disposal, type of anuimals permitted, etc, etc). Number 9 states "Each lot owner shall be responsible for lot and yard maintenance and shall, whether or not improvements shall have been constructed thereupon, maintain the upkeep thereof keeping the same free of debris and trash, unsightly weeds and litter." Number 10 states "Each lot owner shall be responsible for keeping any natural and/or man-made drainage areas or easements" and so forth.

Item 13 says "Indian Ridge Property Owners' Association, Inc. - Each lot owner is a mandatory member of the Indian Ridge Property Owners' Association, Inc., a Florida corporation not-for-profit, and will maintain membership in the Association as long as the lot is owned. Each lot owner further agrees to maintain said membership in the Association in good standing and to abide by the Articles of Association, By-laws, Rules and Regulations of the Association as may be amended from time to time."

Now, it says under "The Property Owners' Association shall be empowered:"
Item 2: "(...) In this regard, the Association shall operate and maintain said drainage easements and/or drainage retention easements as common property in accordance with the surface water management system of the Subdivision as permitted by the Southwest Florida Water Management District which shall include and not be limited to culverts and related appurtenances."

Item 7: "To determine, prepare, deliver notice of and collect assessments from the Association members for the purpose of the foregoing and to enforce liens for such assessments uncollected against a lot owner's lot within the Subdivision, with interest, costs and attorney's fees, by legal action if necessary.
Under Item 7, the B.1 part says "Each lot and/or property owner shall be liable and obligated to pay to the Property Owners' Association an annual property improvement and management fee covering the cost of maintenance, improvement and operation of the various common areas under control of the Property Owners' Association hereinabove referenced which are for the private use and benefit of the property and lot owners."

Item B.3: "There shall be a $25.00 initial membership fee per lot payable upon acquisition from the present Owner. (...) The amount of an annual assessment will depend upon the financial requirements for maintenance, improvements and operation of the common areas desired by the Association Members.Special Assessments for these purposes may, from time to time, be made by the Association."

Item B.8: "The Association through its membership shall have the absolute right to modify all of the Restrictions contained herein by amendment, deletion and/or addition thereto upon the written direction of 75% or more of the membership in the Association; however, no amendment, deletion and/or addition thereto may be made that would affect the surface water management sustem of the Subdivision, including the water management portions of the common areas unless prior approval thereof is obtained from the Southwest Florida Water Management Disctrict."

There are many things we have no clue of their meaning... so we decided to copy some of it so you can have an idea of what this is about. I have another set of papers with more information. I will try typing in another post.

Article XI allows 75% of the membership to modify, amend, DELETE, or add to the restrictive covenants and conditions.
So get 76% or more people together and delete the ccrs. Maybe it will be helpful to amend XI to read 51% if te membership first...

Article XII says "This Association shall have perpetual existence; however, if the Association shall become dissolved by law, or otherwise,..." that OR OTHERWISE gives the (75% members) the ability to terminate the corporation. NOW you need to get those folks together, do the research, and find out how to dissolve a Florida corporation. That's probably written in the state statutes. It even tells you what to do with those drainage easements.
Best wishes in this, and keep us posted.

Stevens ,
Your POA is incorporated under Fl Statutes 617, Not for Profit Corp. Google in that for the website on any actions that you may need. Below are 2 paragraphs for dissolution of your Corp. BUT before you get that far, you will need to get approval from your other members according to your ByLaws for the amount of votes required to pass that dissolution. It will require alot more than just yourself to get it accomplished.

So---617.1402 Dissolution of a Corp
617.1403 Articles of dissolution.--

(1) At any time after dissolution is authorized, the corporation may dissolve by delivering to the Department of State for filing articles of dissolution setting forth:

(a) The name of the corporation;

(b) If the corporation has members entitled to vote on dissolution, the date of the meeting of members at which the resolution to dissolve was adopted, a statement that the number of votes cast for dissolution was sufficient for approval, or a statement that such a resolution was adopted by written consent and executed in accordance with s. 617.0701; and

The incorporation of an HOA can be terminated. However, that does not terminate the HOA; it just terminates the not-for-profit corporation status. The Declaration of CC&Rs define the life of the association. If it is specified to be for pertetuity it can not be dissolved, only amended.

Thank You Roger,
Reading these documents that were written by lawyers who really want to use their terms that us lay people do not understand, makes it more difficult than it should be but I had a feeling that I got the drift of this particular document. That's why it is so nice to have you, Gloria and some of the other professionals here to interpret it for us. This should answer Stevens questions.

Steven,
In order to pass any change to your association documents, you will need t present an amendment change to each and every member of the association for a vote. The amendment is a legal document and you guys could probably draft it yourself if you do research and have it worded properly. I would not do it myself.

The very safe thing to do is to have it drafted by an attorney. He will cover all of the bases as this is not just a simple issue. Then once it is written, it goes to the membership for a vote. Your documents state that to amend your documents, it takes 75% of all members to vote positive or for the change. If you do not get 75% "yes" vote, it is then not going to be dissolved per the vote of your members.

Becuase this is for dissolution of the association and to dissolve your corporation, please do contact an attorney as if you don't do this according to laws and statutes, it will be null and void.

The only place where a petition comes into play is that to force your Board to address this, you need 10% of all of the owners to sign a petition to have the Board address and deal with this if they are unwilling to do so on their own.

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ARTICLE XII
TERM
This Association shall have perpetual existence; however, if the Association shall become dissolved by law, or otherwise, and not reinstated in accordance with the Laws of the State of Florida, then and in that event, the drainage easements and/or drainage retention easements as shown on the Plat of Indian Ridge Subdivision, Plat book... (...) Public Records of Polk County, Florida, shall be conveyed by the last surviving members of the Board of Directors of the Association or their successors to an appropriate local governmental agency; of if not accepted, they shall be dedicated to a similar non-profit corporation chartered under the laws of the State of Florida by the members hereof for the purposes herein set forth.

Steven,
Another issue that you will have to deal with is in the later part of this Article X11 which states that "Public Records of Polk County, Florida, shall be conveyed by the last surviving members of the Board of Directors of the Association or their successors to an appropriate local governmental agency; of if not accepted, they shall be dedicated to a similar non-profit corporation chartered under the laws of the State of Florida by the members hereof for the purposes herein set forth. "

That means that your association or BOD will be responsible to find some local government agency who will be willing to take over the drainage elements and or retention easements.
You have lots of issues to deal with before your financial responsibility will be released from this obligation. Good Luck!