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RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
I know this has been on the Board more than once, but I would like some specific opinions.

1. Our budget runs around $250.000.00/ year.

2. As far as I know we have never had an audit, although our documents specify one be done yearly.

3. The Boards have expressed at the annhual meetings that audits are too expensive.

4. The manager states that he has someone qualified look at books but does not give a written report.

5. I know this is just not proper for a bunch of reasons.

6. The boards, managers (new and old) do not want to address this suibject.

7. I feel the Board is jeprodizing the associations, themselves personally, and suspect they are listening to our lawyer.

8. I really don't suspect anyone of any illegal acts, other (in my opinion) than not having a audit done.

9. Any constructive contributations on this specific subject?
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Hey Mr. Robert,

What one of my associations that have a small budget like yours does is to have a "Budget review" every year and on the 4th year, they do an audit. Florida Statutes require us to have financial reviews or audits every year, depending on the annual budget amount.

I am assuming that you are a Not For Profit Corporation and because you do have to file Federal reports, it is a safe thing to do plus the peace of mind knowing that your books are in order. Reviews are not that expensive and someone doing it without having a written report presented doesn't do you much good.
AnneA1 (Delaware)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Robert,
I know the feeling. Our HOA also does not do an Audit but rather a review. We have money not accounted for but the board does not see this as a problem. Where to go next??
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
AnneA1 and Donna,
Thanks for your replies. Think some more.

Anne,
Are you saying you are getting a written review that shows the books don't balance and your board ignores that also? Do they just write off the money or just ignore the whole thing, which, by the way, seems to be a popular habit of a lot of boards.....just ignore it.

Our documents don't mention reviews but I got nothing against them used as Donna suggests, of course that don't make us legal here.

Also Donna, what federal report are you referring to that must be filed by non-profits?
AnneA1 (Delaware)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Robert,
They have chosen to just ignore the whole thing. "We just wrote it off",
was the response given to me. I don't see how we can ever have an accurate accounting of the funds.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Robert,
I am not the expert on financials but I believe the form is Federal Form 1120H which is the Tax Return for HOA's Not For Profit.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
RobertR1, check to determine if an audit is required by your state statues. I believe Colorado requires an audit every other year when over $250,000 income or expenses. A good reason for a financial review or an audit is to protect the Board members and the company maintaining your financial records.

We provide all Board members who have an email address copies of monthly financial reports. Plus we will provide copies of all bank statements quarterly and recommend they be compared with financial instiution statements. This provides an ongoing financial review by the Board. Furthermore, we recommend the HOA have a financial committee which helps develop the annual budget and does a yearly financial review.

Audits do not necessarily guarantee that the books are in good order. For example, we just started managing an HOA which had an audit for 2007. The audit found no problems. Furthermore, the books had been maintained by a management company which manages over 200 associations. So we felt the financial records would be in good order. WRONG !!!

The $1,500 audit raised a red flag to our highly experienced accountant. She felt this was rather inexpensive. Was she correct. It was only a financial review. Numerous errors were discovered in the financial records which ultimately required us to do an internal audit. Several corrections and adjustments were required. Examples are:
1) the funds in the reserve account did not agree with the end of year investment statement. In other words the account was not even reconciled!
2) the balance sheet showed assets of tens of thousands of dollars too much.

Bottom line - the HOA complied with state law; the Board was protected by the audit; the management company was protected by the audit; and the financials records were not good.
PeterB1 (Florida)
Posts: 257
Posted:
What's a 'review' versus an 'audit'?

We are required to have a review (per FL Chap 720). Visiting a CPA, I was told that only a CPA could do a review and the cost would be in the $1500-2000 range. He wouldn't say what the review entailed!

Does a review differ from an audit? Who can do (legally) a review? I assume that an audit can only be done by a CPA.

This is a Florida HOA. Anyone provide clarification?
DonN (Michigan)
Posts: 357
Posted:
Robert

There are many good reasons to conduct an audit. Each board member has a fiduciary duty concerning property stewardship and management of association funds.

If your governing documents state that an annual audit is required, they mean just that. Failure to adhere to the governing documents is likely a breach of fiduciary duty. Board members could be personally liable.

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
We are not a condo association, and we do an Audit Review every year.

The audit review committee is comprised of three general members, and the treasurer attends the audit review. It is done one Sat. afternoon and takes about 3 hours for us.

The audit review simply looks to see that the organization uses standard accounting principles, and that everything is recorded in its proper account, and that the accounts have been reconciled. Since we use Quickbooks, it's done automatically.

HOWEVER, there are other things to look at. For example, a good audit review will look at the minutes of the meeting to find the motion that give authorization for the money to be spent. It backtracks from the checkbook to the minutes and then vice-versa. It looks at the number of bids received, and if the bidding process was done properly. It looks at the secretary's records and makes sure the proper documents are at hand, and there is an official, updated voters' roster. It looks to see that all the paperwork is filed with the State and that the Annual Report is done. It makes sure that the CPA has all the tax forms done and they are filed in a timely manner. And there is a review of all the insurance policies and any other certifications that we need (we must have a licensed water technician overseeing our water system)

A real audit done by a CPA firm would come in a tear apart the books and put them back together, and could cost $2500 - $6,000 depending on how big the organizaton is.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Below is the Florida Statute paragraph relating to financial reporting for associations.

720;303, (7) Financial reports shall be prepared as follows:

(a) An association that meets the criteria of this paragraph shall prepare or cause to be prepared a complete set of financial statements in accordance with generally accepted accounting principles as adopted by the Board of Accountancy. The financial statements shall be based upon the association's total annual revenues, as follows:

1. An association with total annual revenues of $100,000 or more, but less than $200,000, shall prepare compiled financial statements.

2. An association with total annual revenues of at least $200,000, but less than $400,000, shall prepare reviewed financial statements.

3. An association with total annual revenues of $400,000 or more shall prepare audited financial statements.

(b)1. An association with total annual revenues of less than $100,000 shall prepare a report of cash receipts and expenditures.

2. An association in a community of fewer than 50 parcels, regardless of the association's annual revenues, may prepare a report of cash receipts and expenditures in lieu of financial statements required by paragraph (a) unless the governing documents provide otherwise.

PeterB1 (Florida)
Posts: 257
Posted:
DonnaS post is very relevant. That is what I'm trying to understand.But, note:
para 1. the term "compiled" is used
para 2. the term "reviewed" is used
para 3. the term "audited" is used

What is the difference and who do I need (CPA, bookkeeper, Board members) to comply wth the law?
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
para 1. the term "compiled" is used
para 2. the term "reviewed" is used
para 3. the term "audited" is used

"compiled" just means organized and printed out (using standard accounting principles)into a report for the members' approval at the annual meeting (or for whomever "approves" the annual financial report).

"reviewed" means the information has had an audit review and presented for approval.

"audited" means gone over by a CPA and approved at the annual meeting.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Here's a web page that explains the difference in great detail . . .

http://www.raymino.com/understanding_compilation.htm

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Susan,
I can't get this address on Google,
Any ideas, thanks
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Block and copy that address, then re-copy it onto your www.address line.

It should take you there.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SusanW1 on 12/27/2007 5:36 PM
Here's a web page that explains the difference in great detail . . .

http://www.raymino.com/understanding_compilation.htm

Thanks for the reference Susan. Some good comments except it is not necessary for a CPA to do a compilation or a financial review. Since this was written by a CPA so it is understandable they would state in this misleading manner.

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