HOA enforcing

Merita,
First of all, welcome. But you must understand one thing first of all. This forum will not and does not engage in any discussion concerning racial and other issues of this type. We don't base our opinions on any factors concerning race, religeon or any other social items. We are all about associations and documents and how to interprete them.

Having said that, now the first thing that you need to do is to inform us of what your ByLaws and archetectural guidelines say as for what improvements and changes that you have done. Tell us about your Board. Do you attend meetings and are you involved in your membership rights. There is a whole lot going on here and we cannot help without knowing more.

The fact that other people have items done to their homes that you have gotten letters on is a question to us. Why has it also taken so long to have these letters to be sent to you for non compliances? Lots of unknowns to find out for us.

DonnaS, I think one of those answers is in the length of time the "new" board members have been "on the job." She states they have been in their positions 2 maybe 3 years.

Now, the only other concern I have with her characterization of the events in her neighborhood is that she really has no way of knowing whether or not other people have or have not received letters. Our BOD does not post a list anywhere of who was sent what violation letter on what date. And oftentimes, when neighbors ask each other, "Hey did you get a letter about your gazebo?" or whatever, they will very often mislead and sometimes outright lie and say they did not when, in fact, they DID receive violation notices.

Plus if this is a fairly "new" board they could well be in the process of reviewing many things that have been happening and perhaps dealing with them one at a time. They may NOT be, but it shouldn't be assumed that nothing is being done.

Also, on a few of the details, we found out the hard way we cannot actually regulate satellite dishes, so that complaint is probably not a valid comparison. In addition, flags, statues, garbage, again, the poster really doesn't know what has or has not transpired in regards to those items.

Our BOD operates from a complaint-driven perspective. Our BOD does not police, but when we receive a complaint we act on every complaint we receive.

What I would suggest this original poster do is make a list of the homes she feels are in "violation" and proceed with submitting, in writing, a formal notification of the alleged violation.

Then the BOD will be compelled to enforce.

Also, she has admitted that she did not receive prior approval. I'm at a loss to understand why people think that just because they "got away with it" for a period of time that the violation is no longer a violation? At any rate, our CC&Rs do not have a "time limit" for enforcement. She will need to read her documents to confirm whether hers has one or not. If some violation has not come to the attention of the board for 3 or 5 or 8 years or whatever, the moment it does, we can still enforce, and we have won enforcement in court. And the people in violation not only had to pay to have the violation rectified, they had to pay the Association's legal fees and court costs as well.

So the "time limit" defense may not be a valid one. And the "but others are doing it too" defense probably won't be either.

The best the original poster can do is come into compliance and then also make sure the board is enforcing fairly by making sure to bring the other violations to their attention. I know our board would be very appreciative of both actions.

donnaS,

I'm not sure why it has taken so long for us to get a letter about breaking the rules. That is what has me writting to you. Meetings...well the board members meet once a month(I believe) in one of there homes, but the last meeting that was for the neighborhood to attend was about a yr ago. Now when we got the first letter back in sept. we went to one of the board members homes to inquire about the letter and he did not really answer our questions. He told us that at their next meeting he would let us attend, he never told us when it was. the bylaws say you can put a wall and it can not be more than 6ft tall, my is 6 ft, it has to have space between the slates, it does, my wall fits what we are allowed to have the only thing they are complaining about it that we did not submit plans for them to approve.(No one in the neighborhood does) Arch. guidelines...we can add a porch if we want you just have to let the hob approve what you are doing. My thing is with why it has taken 3 yrs and 1 yr for them to say something to us. Also, why they are just making us "Fix" stuff and not everybody. do we have the right to not "fix" what they want until the make everyone else fix their stuff?

Merita: Again, welcome, and I truly hope you can work your issue out amicably with y our board.

However, what people get out of lying about whether they receive violation letters is that they get to pretend that they haven't gotten their hands smacked. Plus, they can also be trying to make the board look bad and themselves look good.

Not saying that anyone is doing that, but I promise, it happens ALL the time.

But again, they may not have gotten notices because they may not have been formally reported for a violation.

It really is in your best interest and in the best interest of all your neighbors to help your board protect the integrity of your governing documents. While you may feel singled out now, in the long run, the CC&Rs are designed for the betterment of the entire neighborhood, not just one entity.

Plus, the entire neighborhood has the ability to tailor its governing documents to meet its needs. So if you can get enough neighbors together, you can adjust and tweak your governing documents so it's easier for everyone to stay in compliance.

However, regarding your instance, should that have happened here, we would have required you to fill in the appropriate paperwork and then reviewed the project. If there were any part of the project (the wall or the decking thing) that was out of compliance with our specs, then you would have been asked to retro-comply those portions or remove the structure. We would not have asked a removal first, even if you had not submitted for approval beforehand.

The whole purpose of filing the proper paper work to get the approval ahead of time is to AVOID the cost of having to take it down and retro-fit it to comply to the specifications in the case it does not. That's a huge risk to take, to not submit ahead of time.

Good luck.

Merita - you could gather pictures of other properties not in compliance, including the president's shed and submit them to your board. Any member can request the enforcement of the CC&Rs. If they are not already going after those other violations, and if they persist with just enforcing your violations, they risk a charge of selective enforcement which you can file. The key is that the board has been informed of these other infractions and is doing nothing about them, but still enforcing your violations. Harold

Why is it? Whenever anyone receives a letter from the HOA asking them to correct something, that they feel that they are being singled out? Why do they always point the finger at their other neighbors and say what about them? How do you know that they aren't already working with other residents on these problems? Frequently, it may take a while to get everyone on board with the rules and you can't change everything overnight. Unless you have proof that you're being descriminated against, I don't think it should be mentioned, and using the word "Suck" in your post is totally inappropriate. Reading your post is like trying to read a bowl of alphabet soup. I suggest that stick to the facts and I don't care if it's been a while since you made these changes. If you're in violation of the HOA documents, then the board can enforece the rules. Call Whine-One-One!

"How do you know that they aren't already working with other residents on these problems?" Bug, did you actually read this thread? Merita knows and has talked with others who are in violation and they have not been cited.
Some states, and Roger has often stated this, do not allow for architectural violations past one year to be cited for removal. Harold

Harold - We're assuming an awful lot when you contend that everyone is not receiving letters. I have to agree with Michelle on this one! There's too sides to every coin here and right now, based on the sketchy description or information provided, I'm not buying into it! BTW - If the poster thinks that there's a one year limitation rule on this, she's probably going to find out that that's not the case. It's just not that simple. Everyone thinks that there's always a rule on this that works like the statues of limitations or perhaps they consider it grandfathered for some reason. Hooey!

Merita,
I responded to your post in part because you said you were being discriminated against because of who you choose to marry, and suggested you take steps to resolve your suspecions. That was an important charge and it apparently is being ignored.

I read you all talk about this with the neighbors. Good for you, now get those neighbor togethger and work with your board to make a better association, but first don't approach them as if the are some kind of paid cowhand. They are exactly like you and your neigbors, some you will like, some you won't, but they are not strangers, learn a little bit about what they do, and if you still feel they are bad for the community, vote them out.

No doubt the major problem in most HOA's is owner apathy, that's a given. This is the place you live, you all have the power to make it better, you really do. And that is right and just because you really are no different than the elected board.

Merita:

I have every empathy for your perceived discomfort with "turning in" a neighbor and perhaps a friend.

Keep in mind that many of us, too, are "neighbors" and "friends" of the people in the community for which we have volunteered to serve on the board.

Don't think for a minute that it becomes uncomfortable for any one of us to have to send a notice of violation to people we've had to dinner or with whom our families socialize.

The fact of the matter is, though, that comes with the territory.

And, if we are board members, then we, too, are under scrutiny from our neighbors, especially those to whom we've sent violation notices. If one of us is not abiding by the governing documents, then even those who do it just for "revenge" are still within their rights and duties to "report" us.

Having said that, I also know for a fact that in many cases people can and DO deny that they have received violation notices.

I really have no idea why they do that, and I did speculate about it earlier, but there is no possible way you can really know if or if not various infractions have already been addressed or in the process of being addressed. I have been sitting right next to residents who, when asked if they've ever gotten a notice about their garbage cans or their car parking, have point-blank told the other person, "Nope." The only problem with that is since there was a period in time when I was president and I signed all the violation notices, I knew for a fact they were lying. And THEY knew I knew it. I did not contradict them, but I did speak up and say that regardless of whether others may or may not have gotten notices, if you are in violation, you are in violation and you really need to focus on you and not others.

For one thing, it may well be that violation notification is "spotty." However, the claim of "selective enforcement" is really a very difficult one to actually prove if the situation were to get to court. If the Association can show even a modicum of consistent notification, or a pattern of notification based on a complaint-driven enforcement, for example, then many times the selective enforcement proof is lacking. It takes more than just one or two. And even so, it's also very likely that your documents state something along the lines of failure to enforce one restriction does not void the ability to enforce any other violation.

Anyway, I would still encourage you to talk with the board and talk about ways of making you "legal" without having to go through the ridiculous exercise and expense of taking the wall/decking thing down only to rebuild them again after you formalize the plans.

Remember, their goals should be that of compliance and not of "gotchya." I know. Seems like a subtle difference, but it really isn't. The intent of the Arch Committee approval should be addressed and your projects should be allowed to come into compliance with them without have to rip out and start all over.

Good luck.

MeritaB,

If you suspect discrimination (as Robert stated) this is a very serious position to take. There are FHA laws which prevent this, but you need to tread carefully here, outside of Title Seven of USCA (.. race, sexual orientation, national origin.. ) it is very difficult to make a case of racial discrimination (outside of the blatant actions - using certain words, graffiti, threats, etc).

If you broke the rules, you broke the rules, PERIOD !! You need to focus on coming into compliance and THEN seek out why you were singled out. When there is a a riot, the last guy stealing isn't any "less" guilty than the first guy. While this may seem "unfair" it is part of the system that you choose to live in when you signed on the dotted line.

There may well be "grandfathered" or a "statute of limitations" on enforcement. However the HOA board is the arbitor of that, and not you. Bring the issue to their attention (as Harold and others have suggested) and then allow them the time to properly deal with it (patience). If they fail to act, then you have basically exhausted your "administrative claims" (typically a local government will have an administrative process that you must follow before heading to court, etc). Give the board the benefit of the doubt and time to act. Yes, there is potentially cronyism on the board, etc - and while that is not the way things "should" be run, it does happen.

If you feel that the time-frame for enforcement is too long, first find out what rights you have under your documents, and then if applicable, from your local codes/statutes, etc. Always head to the HOA with INFORMATION that supports your position, leave out the "other" stuff that tends to bring the human dynamic in to the picture (emotions, etc).

All in all, do what is right by your HOA because it is the right thing to do. When we get caught up in what our neighbor is or isn't doing, and attempt to use that as justification for our infractions, no one wins.

To the poster that stated "whine-one-one" please take a look at the posting rules of posting by HOAtalk; we try to help others here and not ridicule. We do not have to agree on everything, but there is no reason for anyone to be disrespectful.

Jadedone,
I also take strong exception to the remark, "Whine, one, one.
I know I speak for a large number of regulars, that found this uncalled for. I also agree we may be talking this to death as Gerald says.
I hope we hear more from Merite, I think we all are concerned that she is able to get by this and contribute to her community.

I actually ignored the whine, one, one remark. It appears to me the writer might be a new gung ho board member who's going to save the world from HOA sinners. He/she will either quickly burn out or be thrown out with that attitude. Harold

If I lived in this HOA and know I have violated the CCRS for having failed to get ARC approval there are two possible approaches I would take.

1. Remove them and get back into compliance.

2. Take the photos of every single 'possible' violation and see if the Board reconsiders enforcing past violations, or decides to take some other approach..not that I know what that approach could be for them to remain in compliance of performing their fudiciary duty.

I KNOW in the HOA I'm surrounded by, every single H.O. is in violation of one CCR or another because of how the developer handled (didn't) ARC approval during the ~ 5years of his tenure.

The board would have to pursue every violation or they are selectively enforcing so what a dilemma they are in, and I feel sorry for them having to clean up a developer's mess. Sounds like that is the norm though.

Merita:

North Carolina is one of the very few states that have a Planned Community Act. Unfortunately the first place you error was doing the exterior projects without board (ARC) approval.

I understand Owners do not see the big picture when doing a retaining wall, or installing a fence; however the board has to follow the CCR's and make sure that what is being installed complies with the ARC guidelines as well as the project does not cause the neighbor harm.

What I mean by that is the retaining wall; let's say there was some excavating work done while installing this retaining wall. Now the excavating has cause the water run-off to run onto your neighbors property and now when it rains she is getting flooded. This has never happened before, but now since your retaining wall her back yard resembles a swamp. This scenario is not far from the truth, especially here in NC where water run-off is a BIG deal.

The ARC and Board has to take into consideration not just your home but the entire community. Too many times HO just look at their boundaries (front yard, back yard and sides of the lot) and it ends there.

Like a Mayor and City Counsel Members the board has to look at the entire community. Instead of looking at your neighbors and the board and the many problems you think are not being paid attention to; try to look at your problems and rectify them. Just because you may see another HO violating the CCR's doesn't mean the board or PM is doing nothing.

Much goes on behind the scenes that HO's are not privy too. However the board and PMC knows how many letters are sent. The CCR's are color blind, they do not see race, gender or size. They are written for everyone no matter their color or race to follow.

Don't try to deflect the focus off of your problem by pointing out everyone else's within the community. Just do the right thing and speak with the board about your options to rectify your problem in a manner that is good for you and the community.

I didnt mean to hijack this thread but I wanted to illustrate that self-run HOAs can be a complete nightmare. Gloria, I respect your opinion and your answer is the way things SHOULD happen but it is my experience in 2 HOAs that it doesnt always happen the right way. What happens if Merita applies to the AC and it is denied? What if she removes it first and has it denied again? She cant have her wall while others do what they want? Who can she appeal to? Will she have to spend $$ on lawyers to get what is her right and is allowed under the rules?

Brian:

I understand what you are saying and in a perfect world everything works out. Again, what may appear to owners as others getting away with it, just may not be the case. Example; we are contracted with our communities to perform on-site inspections. We wrote over 300 letters of concern for (1) HOA. A HO received her (1) letter and believes we are singling her out, however we wrote over 299 letters excluding hers. The inspector during the drive-thru has no idea who, what color, gender or size of the person living in the house. All the inspector sees is the violation of the CCR's.

In my post to Merita, I explained that NC has many laws that govern HOA's and in repsonse to your above statement what can she so?

Hopefully she does have an MC in the HOA and can be mediated between herself and the board. I do not believe the racial card should be pulled here because in my 25 years it has rarely ever been the issue.

Too many Owners move forward with an exterior project without going through the ARC review process. At this point Merita needs to request a hearing to mediate her situation with the board.