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ArthurR (Idaho)
Posts: 17
Posted:
Our HOA does monthly inspections of the subdivision and when violations are found, we send out a violation letter requesting that the violation be corrected. We say in the letter that if the violation is not corrected it could result in a fine. If the violation still exist at the next inspection we send out a letter that states basically we are fining you. It is my opinion that the fine letter is wrong. Here is what the CCRs state:

β€œIn addition to the foregoing, the Association shall be entitled to impose a monetary penalty, not to exceed the sum of $25.00 per day, against an owner who has caused or permitted a violation of any of the restrictions, conditions or covenants contained herein, provided that the Owner is given 15 days advance written notice of the proposed monetary penalty and a timely opportunity to be heard on the matter.”

My read is that we have to tell the owner we are going to fine them $XX/Day starting in 15 days from a certain date.

Agree or disagree?

Thanks
Art
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Arthur,

I disagree--to a certain extent. It says that the owner is given a 15 day advance notice. Then it says, "And a timely opportunity to be heard on the matter" Your read is that you can start to fine after 15 days from a certain date and that is what I disagree with.
It states that the opportunity for a hearing on a timely manner needs to be done .This is giving an owner a chance to be heard on the matter, in other words, it is buying them extra time to make a correction BECAUSE there is no time frame for a hearing. Who decides when the hearing is and who does it? I believe that there needs to be more information given to anyone who is indeed a non complier and being fined.
Don't get me wrong, I am in favor of fining members who break rules and don't follow the CC&R's but this is not clear enough to be able to enforce .
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Arthur - what is "timely"?

HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906
Posted:
Arthur - it is called "Due Process." It's been around since English Common Law. HOAs are not exempt from due process. Your HOA is only sending letters, the second one being a "fining letter?" Your documents even specify a hearing. Where is the due process? Good way to get sued if you don't even follow your own documents. Harold
ArthurR (Idaho)
Posts: 17
Posted:
DonnaS,

Thanks for the reply. This may help you:

β€œThe opportunity to be heard may, at the election of such Owner, be oral or in writing. The notice shall be given personally to such owner or sent by first class or certified mail to the last known address of Such owner as shown in the records of the Association and shall state the place, date and time of the hearing.”

This was another area I was looking at pretty hard. This one was getting me a little confused. Can we start fining after 15 days but we must hold a hearing with the owner within those 15 days or is it up to the owners to request the hearing? I tend to think it is up to the owner to request the hearing.

By the way, the hearing is held by the BOD.

Art
ArthurR (Idaho)
Posts: 17
Posted:
SusanW1,

Excellent question. Wish I had an answer.

Art

ArthurR (Idaho)
Posts: 17
Posted:
After posting this topic I realized I should have copies of letters the PMC sent to homeowners. We just started running the show less than 6 months ago. You would think the PMC would do it right. Anyway, here is an excerpt from their letter:

β€œYou will have 15 days from the date from this letter to remedy the violation. If the concern is not remedied a fine in the amount of $25.00 per day will be assessed against your property starting from the 16th day.”

No indication of a right to a hearing. Are they following the rules correctly? You would hope so as that is their job and they do have legal advice. Still wouldn't go to the bank with it.

Art
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Arthur,
I know in Florida an association would not be able to start fining without a hearing before our covenants enforcement committee. Then after that, if an agreement between the non complier and the committee is not reached with satisfaction, only then can the fining begin.
I feel that the person being sent the letters in your case, is not being given a chance to ask questions or to have a due process. Sorry, but it is not properly being done. Altho,with some of these people, I have a "hang um and ask questions later" attitude. The frustration that some members cause the Boards to have is so uncalled for. You know the rules. If you cannot live with them, then just keep on moving. I am talking about the ones who never do and never will follow any rules and regs.
HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906
Posted:
"We just started running the show less than 6 months ago. You would think the PMC would do it right." That is a common misconception. Is this the same PM used by the developer? It is never a good idea to retain the same PM as the developer used. Do a search here for past threads showing nothing but trouble by keeping the developer's PM after transition.
You need to interview and hire a PM that will do want YOU want them to do and know and follow your rules and state laws. From the quoted letter your PM sent, they are not even following the requirements of your CC&Rs, much less due process. This is a lawsuit waiting to happen. Harold
ArthurR (Idaho)
Posts: 17
Posted:
Thanks to all for your replies. I think that what I am going to do is suggest to the other board members that we consult an attorney about the issue.

Art
GloriaM (North Carolina)
Posts: 829
Posted:
Arthur:

What the PM letter should have stated is that; if within the 15-days the problem is not corrected the possible imposition of fines could accrue.

Every state allows the Owner the opportunity to be heard before the executive board before fines can be assessed. If the Owner does not show at the hearing, it does not negate the fact that the board can still proceed with their decision of fining. The Hearing Notice should be specific in explaining this to them.

After the hearing a "Decision of Hearing" notice should be sent to the Owner (show or no show) explaining the board's decision. Document, document, document! Remember the fine should fit the crime.
ArthurR (Idaho)
Posts: 17
Posted:
Gloria,

Thanks for the comments. We are actually trying to establish a fine schedule because a $25/day fine is a little heavy for some violations.
GloriaM (North Carolina)
Posts: 829
Posted:
Arthur:

You wouldn't like NC then. The NCPCA allow up to $100.00 per day per violation. That's why I said let the fine fit the crime.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Arthur,
Having a $5.00 or low fine like that will not get anyones attention. In Florida, we are limited to $100.00 per day with a limit of $1000.00 per offense not resolved. We have $25.00 as our lowest but most are at the $100.00. You need to get peoples attention when you fine them and in MHO, as long as you are fining, make it an attention grabber. Do have a schedule of fines someplace where evryone has access to it.
ArthurR (Idaho)
Posts: 17
Posted:
Donna,

We are trying to find the ground between outrageous and too little.

Art
WayneB3 (NV)
Posts: 51
Posted:
We use an escalating fine schedule. The initial fine is $25 after all the notifications of course and a hearing if requested. The h/o has 17 days to correct the violation or is fined an additional $50. 17 days then $100. 17 days then $100 per day. It used to be 14 days but we amended it to 17.

This is a middle class neighborhood and if you say have cracks in your fence wall that need repair it takes time to get bids and secure a contractor then finally get the work done. If you're doing it yourself it might take two or three weekends to complete. The board knows that because we deal with the same things. So we are kind of lenient if we know the owner is pro-active.

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