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KarenS10 (North Carolina)
Posts: 5
Posted:
We have multiple examples of homeowners usurping HOA property adjacent to their personal property. Some have built fences (including stone ones), some have merely added plantings to give an extension to their lawns and in one aggrevious case, the homeowner had natural, creekside plantings torn out and then replanted lawn to extend his own lawn by about 100 feet, all the way down to the creek. Has any one from another HOA dealth with this kind of thing? I feel we need to take action immediately and we have hired an official surveyor to "prove" the property lines.

But, where does the line of right vs wrong come in? Is it ok for someone to simply plant a couple trees as long as they "gift" them to the HOA? If that is considered ok, where does it stop being "ok" -- after a certain number of trees or plants? only if they haven't harmed natural plantings (though even with the trees, they would have to dig out grass)? only if there is hardscape involved?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Karen,
Your BOD has to put a stop to this immediately. Yes, the "Gift" of a tree is wonderful. Who will pay to maintain it? When it crashes down on a roof, will it still be okay? When it is diseased, who will pay that bill? Association common property belongs to all of your owners, no one else can encroach on it. Get it surveyed and get the fences down and any other maintenances to return it back to original condition. The tree? Well, it might warrant a "special dispensation" This has started because the BOD has not done it's job or an ARC if you have one.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Donna brings up some great points. To me this is no different than if your neighbor went into your yard, you (the HOA) needs to protect its common property and establish boundaries. IF that mean bringing in a surveyor then do it. There should be plats available which show dimensions, etc, that would to me be a first good step. But, the HOA needs to take control of this situation.
KarenS10 (North Carolina)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Thanks for the input. I worry about how to determine what situations would qualify for "special dispensation" and would prefer not making any exceptions for fear of setting precedences and having to deal with people who will argue that they should also be given "special dispentsation". Or the homeowners who will do whatever they want on HOA property and THEN "gift" it to the HOA. It seems that there will always be a small number of people who, if left to their own devices, will do whatever is best for them personally no matter the impact to the rest of the community.

If anyone has implemented "special dispensation" things like this, can you share how it was done and the results? I suspect to do it right, we'd need to clearly define what counts as "special dispensation" and be true to that definition.

Thanks again.
GloriaM (North Carolina)
Posts: 829
Posted:
Karen:

Any easements or common areas that these Owners have infringed upon is still the HOA's common area and if it is an easement depending upon the type of easement (utility) then if the Town or County had to do work within this easment, they would tear down the fences or retaining wall to perform their work.

To avoid Owners from building or encroaching upon common space are the Owners going through the ARC review process before any project begins. If these Owners did indeed go through this process and were approved and still built upon common space then the Board has the right to have them remove or move back their fences onto their property.

We have Owners do this throughout our communities, place a swinset on common area and we have to proceed according to the NC Planned Community Act.

Many times at the hearing a resolution takes place between the Owner and the board.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Karen,
One way is to first take an inventory of everything that is on the association property that does not belong there. Then if these include trees and bushes, give the owners an opportunity to remove and replant them on their own property. Give them enough time to do so.
If there are trees that have gotten too large, ask for them to be assigned to common property. You can measure them at the plant line and set a size that is considered large enough to replant. We require any trees that are to be replacement trees to be a minimum of 6 inch caliper in the middle of the trunk so that might be your size limit for removal.
NOw the real question is how did this issue arise. Was someone unhappy with this out of authority planting or did someone on the Board decide that this needed addressing? The real question is do you have some good support from other members? It really doesn't matter if this is going to make your Board unpopular. It is what they are supposed to do and that is to protect the documents from being ignored. Good luck to you
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Do these common areas have a function? (water lines, ingress to other properties?) If not, you really need to consider the "damage" done by these landscape gestures. What good does removing trees do?

Perhaps some florescent property-stakes (to mark the land boundaries)when you have the survey done will bring your point to the discussion table.

Most likely the property owners will approach YOU, then!

Mark your boundaries and see what happens.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Make sure you don't let it go on too long or the HOA may loose the property through a process known as adverse possession. My aunt and uncle actually lost a ten foot wide strip of their lot through this process. From Wikipedia:

In common law, adverse possession is the process by which title to another's real property is acquired without compensation, by, as the name suggests, holding the property in a manner that conflicts with the true owner's rights for a specified period of time. Circumstances of the adverse possession determine the type of title acquired by the adverse possessor, which may be fee simple title, mineral rights, or another interest in real property.

The law of adverse possession is partly statutory and partly common law. The required period of uninterrupted possession arises out of a statutory limitation period or statute of limitations. Other elements of adverse possession are judicial constructs.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Glen - good point and another reason why these parcels need to be identified - and just by having the lawn maintenance company mowing the lawn assures that the property has not been abandoned.
KarenS10 (North Carolina)
Posts: 5
Posted:
WOW! I truly appreciate the various input and feedback. This site is a grat resource for those of us trying to make our HOA Boards as effective and productive as possible. In NC, adverse possession is 7 years and we are not at that point yet. But I believe we need to deal with this ASAP - it will only get worse and the longer we drag our feet, the more instances occur AND it somewhat sets precedence.

Thanks again for the solid thoughts and ideas and support.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Karen, we are having this exact situation in our HOA.

A few years ago, we had to notify several residents who installed concrete patios and concrete outdoor furniture on common area. It wasn't only common area, but it was protected wetlands. NOTHING can be placed on it, whether we would approve it or not, which we wouldn't.

We sent them a letter and they removed the materials within a month.

We currently have in another area two homes that built their fences extending at least 8 feet into the common area behind their lots.

They use the same excuse: Their 'builder' told them their property extended to the center of the ditch (which would in reality include almost 100 feet of common area).

One of the homeowners has rectified the situation and removed the fence.

The other has been stalling us for about a year and a half. We think she thinks if she drags this out long enough the land will revert to her use.

She is mistaken as we have record of multiple requests for her to removed the fencing from the common area.

Our attorney is set to initiate a lawsuit within the month. Unfortunately, sometimes it takes a little "nudge" for some people to comply.

By the way, these people did get approval for their fences, and the approval form stipulates that they are responsible for identifying the property lines for their lot. Our forms have a requirement that no approval can be provided for construction of any elements not on the owner's own property.

So, she has approval for her fence, but not if it extends past her property lines. So we initially just asked her to remove the section on the common area and move it back to within her property line.

NOW we are demanding the removal of the entire fence, as the approval is void due to her violation of the property line restriction.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:


Michelle, What do they say---"give them an inch and they'll take a mile" You approved her fence so she thought that she had extra fencing so she might as well just keep on going. Gosh, I wonder if our society has just gotten to disreguard each others spaces that much. But you have to get that extra fencing down because it is what you are supposed to do.
KarenS10 (North Carolina)
Posts: 5
Posted:
And our encroachers did not file anything -- just went ahead and did whatever they wanted. I know this will be painful but I agree, we need to resolve it NOW for the benefit of the HOA.
RobinL1 (Florida)
Posts: 17
Posted:
I am on an Architectural Committee in Boynton Beach , Fl. We do not allow plantings in the lake easements according to our documents.
However, residents are beautifying and spreading out, especially if they built their patio to the end of their property line. So we are allowing it, and making it understood that if the Utilities company, or lake management dept need to do maintenance or improvement on that piece of land, they will be responsible for filling in, replanting sod, or whatever needs to be done so that it meets our standards, like replacing sod, etc. at their own cost.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Robin,
Do you not have a littoral area against your lake areas? Martin County has a 10 foot setback from any waterway or lake. We are not allowed to plant or remove any vegetation in these areas, only allowed to remove inbasive plants. The County has the right to enter andnif deemed appropriate, they can fine the homeowners and the association for damage to the areas and will replace plants with billing going to the association. Ouch, we are very careful what we do in there.
RobinL1 (Florida)
Posts: 17
Posted:
Of course we have a littoral area of 10 ft to lake. All homeowners know where their property ends. But they want what they want, and they expand. We have gotten some of them to remove plantings, or trees, but we are short in manpower and time to keep track of almost 800 homes.The upshot is if no neighbors complain, if lake management doesn't say anything when they service the lakes and canals, we leave it alone. Eventually trees die or shrubs become over grown or people move out or up. So we keep a file for each resident, in huge file cabinets, by section and street, and when a change of ownership occurs, then new sresident must remove extra plantings. No one would dare build anything permanent on that land, they just need a little extra, especially if the builder put their patio out to the property line. They still want 2 ft to plant, protecdts the screening from weedwacking by assoc. landscaper.
DanaA (Florida)
Posts: 117
Posted:
Robin, we, have a lake easement, too, and here is what can happen. One homeowner, whose back yard runs along the easement has been most gracious by planting flowers, getting small trees donated, etc., and beautifying the common area. He submits small mulch bills to the HOA BOD occasionally, and we call it the Lake Beautification Committee, though no one else participates. He has had personal discretion for several years. The common area looks nice, and his back yard vew is his motivation. Win, win, right? This past weekend he decided that a full grown, gorgeous, ficus tree that had been there for years was shadowing his palm tree that he planted (all within the common area, mind you), and took a very tall ladder and chain saw, and hacked away at that beautifully shaped ficus tree until he could get no higher................ need I say more! Another lesson learned the hard way.
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
KarenS10: You have not spoken of your Association having an Architectural Control Committee to receive architectural requests from homeowners wishing to make additions/changes. The large changes you have mentioned would likely fall under the authority of the Committee and Board to approve/deny.

Further, no additions by residents should be made to 'common ground' for which the association is responsible to repair/maintain. That costs money long term.

And lastly, you may want to speak with your local municipal office to learn of the initial land development plans including boundaries and what areas constitute owner boundaries vs. association common ground boundaries. The local officials could be an ally for the Board in this situation in working with a surveyor.

KarenS10 (North Carolina)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Paul,
I should have clarified. Yes, we have an ARB (Arch Review Board) and changes like these should have been submitted for approval. But they weren't -- yet another issue we need to deal with ASAP: people not following the processes as defined. As a HOA Board, we are still somewhat in the "new" phase, having only moved out from the developer a year or so ago. But I believe we need to step up now or it will be too late. Unfortunately, not everyone wants to be seen as the "bad" guy and enforcing the rules. In my mind, it is insane to have the rules if they aren't enforced. Why bother? And it makes the whole HOA Board a joke so no one pays attention and does whatever they want.

Has anyone else has this experience of being on a Board that needed to step up and enforce things that traditionally had been ignored or just looked the other way? Suggestions?
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Karen, every single enforcement we did was one that had not been enforced before.

The majority of us who stepped forward to volunteer for the board of directors had no clue how much like babysitting it would turn out to be.

At least for myself, and I know almost every other initial board member except one, our reasons for joining the board were to encourage some sort of sense of community and camaraderie, since it was a new development and all the neighbors were "new."

Unfortunately, we did not realize that 90% of the residents don't want to be bothered, 8% want to watch over our shoulders and make sure we enforce the rules, and 2% don't want to follow any of the CC&Rs at all or don't believe they apply to them.

The only thing you can do is remember that you are not there to make friends (as nice as that would be!), you are there to maintain the integrity of your governing documents.

If something was not properly enforced before, you need to probably first communicate with the entire neighborhood that enforcement will begin as required by the documents. This will let them know that you area not there to single individuals out, you are there to maintain the integrity of your documents, and, by doing so, you plan to be fair and balanced.

Our first president was a real estate agent and really was not very interested in enforcing the CC&Rs as much as he was interested in selling some of the lots and/or homes off.

Some very key binding restrictions were ignored under his leadership, even though several board members were concerned that it would cause problems later on down the road.

Well, once the first president left the board (after 2 years), the board was a little more assertive. The only people that complained were the ones who KNEW they were in violation, they just expected that they would be able to get away with it forever and a day.

While those people definitely squawked, we conducted our business in such a fair and DOCUMENTED way, that the we received very many letters and notes of thanks for stepping up and helping to keep the governing documents from basically evaporating.

So just stick with it. Document everything you do, and remember, it's the documents, it's not personal.

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