BillL3
(Texas)
Posts:18
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| 12/04/2007 1:18 PM |
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| This all started back in January 2007 when I had a stroke. The results have left myself on oxygen 24/7 for the rest of my life and very weak and in a wheelchair, being barely able to walk any distance at all. My wife and I have been doing fishing tournaments since 1997, we do 85 tournaments per year. In February 2007 we purchased a 2007 40' Monaco Motor Home to do our T's. Our decision to purchase the Coach was a no brainer decision...1.it would make life more comfortable...2.it will transport my motorized wheelchair...3.it has an oxygen concentrater installed...4.it has a diesel generator for power in case of loss of power ie/storm or whatever...We do conduct our business from this Coach, BUT not at the residence...we travel to different lakes in the e. texas area. From February to June the Coach was parked in the street in front of our home, The HOA sent letters denying us to do this...Soooo, since we live on a corner lot and our deed restrictions DO ALLOW us to have a driveway from both streets accessing our lot. We submitted proposal to ACC to put in the Drive way and gate in our wrought iron fence and was denied by the HOA. Their reason: "not harmonious to the neighborhood". This neighborhood has 756 homes in it and their are at least 16 corner lots just like mine that have driveways from both streets. I had taken pictures of these and submitted them to the HOA and they still rejected my proposal. In July we seeked the advice of an attorney and was advised we were doing nothing illegal, so we proceeded to and did install a gate and concrete 70' driveway into lot which is behind our house. We put the wrought iron fence up in 2003 with ACC approval and now in November 2007 we get a letter stating that a storage shed & AC window unit on our lot must be removed because it can be seen from the street because of the wrought iron fence...BOTH have been their for 17 years. The HOA has since sued us and is going to court in January, we feel as if we have just made someone very mad at us and are being harrassed. We have also gotten letters to cut our lawn and we have a lawn service that does our lawn on a weekly basis and has never missed a week. The HOA governing this development is owned by Community Asset Management (CAM) We would like some opinions from other HOA folks through this talk forum.....A very upset Texas homeowner..Mr Bill |
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SusanW1
(Michigan)
Posts:2173
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| 12/04/2007 1:35 PM |
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Bill - see if this can be taken to mediation.
We have heard one side, I am sure there is another side. you have some special circumstances, for sure, but convenants have to be followed. A neutral person should be obtained to sort it all out.
Good luck.
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:2833
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| 12/04/2007 3:33 PM |
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Mr. Bill,
This is a web site for H.O.A. Board members, Property managers and Association officers to solve problems that we come across, governing our associations..
As Susan has said, there are 2 sides to each story. If your Association has got this as far as a court date, they must have some good reasons, probably because you are not in compliance with your deed restrictions and covenants. |
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BillL3
(Texas)
Posts:18
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| 12/04/2007 3:45 PM |
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| Susan & Donna: I know there are 2 sides to every story and I am not willing to sit here for the time it would take to type all that has happened....but in short i did tell the fast version of my side. The HOA is not being at all fair in their actions towards my family. Therefor we have resulted in going to an attorney for help that normally represents HOA's and have been advised to proceed with our countersuit. |
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MaryN
(Virginia)
Posts:125
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| 12/05/2007 3:39 AM |
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Bill,
Good luck with your counter suit. Be prepared for a long, expensive legal adventure. If an attorney that works with HOA's informs you you have a good case..go for it...but know what's ahead. Is your case based on discrimination or selective enforcement or something else?
MaryN |
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BillL3
(Texas)
Posts:18
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| 12/05/2007 8:13 AM |
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| Mary, our case is based on a little of both, but mostly on selective homeowners. Myself is not the only one being sued in this neighborhood, there is 2 more of which are countersuing also. The things that are being sued over are cut and dried in the deed restrictions in favor of the homeowners..... |
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GloriaM
(North Carolina)
Posts:778
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| 12/05/2007 10:21 AM |
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Bill:
Unfortunately your attorney gave you bad advice. If you were denied the worse thing you could have done is proceed with the project when it was denied.
The proper recourse would have been to ask for a meeting with the ACC and Board of Directors to come up with a solution to your situation.
You are at the point of a court appearance in January so at this point all you can do is go into court and see how the Judge rules. |
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Dr. Gloria J. Martinez, CFO
Official HOATalk.com Sponsor
Author of "A Guide to Community Living"
Faith Management Services, LLC (North Carolina)
(704) 799-3791
www.FaithManagementServices.com
*See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal |
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BillL3
(Texas)
Posts:18
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| 12/05/2007 10:34 AM |
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Gloria, I did ask for a meeting with the Board and was told the outcome would not change. We submitted plans to do the work previously stated 3 times and was denied 3 times as: "not harmonious to the neighborhood" even though there are same senario lots in this subdivision. I find it real hard to swallow that YOU would state that "Unfortunately your attorney gave you bad advice". The deed restrictions plainly state that what we did is completely within the rules and legal.(except for getting ACC approval) which was not possible to obtain.
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GloriaM
(North Carolina)
Posts:778
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| 12/05/2007 10:52 AM |
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Posted By BillL3 on 12/05/2007 10:34 AM
Gloria, I did ask for a meeting with the Board and was told the outcome would not change. We submitted plans to do the work previously stated 3 times and was denied 3 times as: "not harmonious to the neighborhood" even though there are same senario lots in this subdivision. I find it real hard to swallow that YOU would state that "Unfortunately your attorney gave you bad advice". The deed restrictions plainly state that what we did is completely within the rules and legal.(except for getting ACC approval) which was not possible to obtain.
The Deed Restrictions do state that approval needs to be given and it was denied 3 times. What is their reason that it is not harmonious to the community? It appears this is the one question that needs to be answered.
Did they give you an alternative to your project? Example: your ARC was denied because you wanted to use a wrought iron fencing and they are not allow. However if you resubmit with the correct fencing style "shadowbox" then the ACC will reconsider?
When you resubmitted 3 times was each submission the exact same ARC, or did you ask what variation of the submission could you propose to the ACC?
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Dr. Gloria J. Martinez, CFO
Official HOATalk.com Sponsor
Author of "A Guide to Community Living"
Faith Management Services, LLC (North Carolina)
(704) 799-3791
www.FaithManagementServices.com
*See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal |
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BillL3
(Texas)
Posts:18
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| 12/05/2007 11:06 AM |
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| We cannot get an answer to why it is not harmonious. Our wrought iron fence was denied by ACC in 2003 and THEN because the then vice president of the HOA had a wrought iron fence on his lot...he took care of our ACC approval for our fence because we threatened with a lawsuit and he didnt want to lose his fence...he signed off our proposal in 2003. NOW, 4 years later they are saying that everything that is visible through our fence is not harmonious.....That vp is no longer and no longer lives in the community....more of the saga........it is very disgusting |
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PaulM
(Pennsylvania)
Posts:1347
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| 12/05/2007 11:36 AM |
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BillL3: You state you recd approval for the wrought iron fence. Do you have the approval in writing? What do your documents state is the process for submitting an architectural request and how is approval/denial given? Has the official process been followed by the Board?
If you feel you are being harrassed by selective enforcement, and your fence is the same wrought iron fence as other fences which have been accepted, then I suggest you take photos of the other like-fences and present the photos as part of your case.
Further you state..."they are saying that everything that is visible through our fence is not harmonious." This sounds like they believe you are in violation due to 'other' architectural additions which can be seen through the fence. Do you have approval for these other additions/changes you have made?
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BillL3
(Texas)
Posts:18
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| 12/05/2007 11:54 AM |
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Paul,
I do not have the approval on the fence in writing as the VP that handled that back in 2003 never sent me a copy. But the HOA has never said anything about the fence being a problem until now...4 years after it was put up. The yard is very well manicured and landscaped and is not an eyesore by any means, the building and AC window unit that they say must go because they can be seen from street because of fence have been in yard for 17 years. The building was replaced with a new identical storage building in 2001, because a storm destroyed the old one. I have many pics of other lots to take to court in January. We have many home owners signatures from the community stating they have no problem with what we have done on our lot and have no problem with parking the coach on my property...more of the saga... |
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GloriaM
(North Carolina)
Posts:778
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| 12/05/2007 12:24 PM |
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Bill:
Is it your RV for your fishing touraments that they are stating is visable through your fence? What do your documents say about RV's and commercial vehicles?
This could be where they have disapproved the project not because of the fence but the RV camper. |
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Dr. Gloria J. Martinez, CFO
Official HOATalk.com Sponsor
Author of "A Guide to Community Living"
Faith Management Services, LLC (North Carolina)
(704) 799-3791
www.FaithManagementServices.com
*See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal |
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BillL3
(Texas)
Posts:18
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| 12/05/2007 1:06 PM |
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Thank you Gloria for your responces...here is the copied and pasted deed restriction: No truck, trailer, boat, automobile or other vehicle shall be stored, parked or kept on any Lot or in the street in front of the Lot unless such vehicle is in a day to day use off the premises.
This coach goes to 87 tournaments per year, it is not stored or just parked here...some are 2-3 day events, this coach is used the same as everyone else's work vehicle, it is my work vehicle and is very necessary for my condition. There are regular vehicles in the community that dont get used on a daily basis and some are not moved nearly as often as this coach. This coach is moved a minimum of 3-4 times a week and sometimes gone for several days. |
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GloriaM
(North Carolina)
Posts:778
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| 12/05/2007 1:15 PM |
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Bill:
Perhaps if your community has a boat storage facility you can park the camper there? Or rent a parking space at a storage facility.
I have to say unless it states that the camper could be parked or stored; but what you quoted it says "or parked" and parking it in the driveway does violate your CCR's.
I urge Owners to read the governing documents before purchasing into a community to make sure you can live and abide by the restrictions. I wish my response could be different to you, nonetheless it sounds as if this is the reason your ARC was denied.
Before this begins to cost you even more money and time, start looking for another way of parking/storing your RV off-site or if your HOA has a boat storage facility. Good luck to you. |
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Dr. Gloria J. Martinez, CFO
Official HOATalk.com Sponsor
Author of "A Guide to Community Living"
Faith Management Services, LLC (North Carolina)
(704) 799-3791
www.FaithManagementServices.com
*See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal |
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BillL3
(Texas)
Posts:18
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| 12/05/2007 1:23 PM |
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| Gloria, Are you still saying that even with it stating if it is moved on a daily basis....I am still doing wrong?? It seems to me you are only reading part of the bylaw, I am going to court in Jan, I guess we will see then...my attorney is a HOA attorney and he thinks we will win the case. |
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BillL3
(Texas)
Posts:18
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| 12/05/2007 1:31 PM |
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| Gloria, Maybe also you missed the fact of having the coach is because of a stroke last January and the coach is needed nearby which is one of the reasons for putting in the driveway. The coach is equipped with all the needs I have and is a positive source for getting oxygen incase of a power outage....Storage facilities for a 40' coach is a minimum $200 per month...another reason for spending $5000 to install driveway and gate into lot....I think I have said everything that I can say at this time....It is very sad that we have to spend our hard earned dollars to prove a written fact....The Judge will tell us |
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:2833
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| 12/05/2007 2:45 PM |
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Bill,
Not to be condecending or anything but the Attorney thinks that he can win the case. If you believe that, then I have some swampland in Florida that you can buy .
In my opinion, using the motor coach for your disability statement would not fall under the Americans with Disabilities Act either.
The only issue that I feel you have any chance of winning is that your applications for the fence were improperly handled when they were denied and with a chance of selective enforcement against you. Sorry but MHO. |
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GloriaM
(North Carolina)
Posts:778
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| 12/05/2007 2:49 PM |
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Bill:
Without seeing all the information from both sides opinions can change with each bit of information. As I stated it will all come down to one person the Judge and how he or she sees the case and interpretes the law.
Good Luck to you Bill and I hope you have a wonderful Christmas despite all of the controversy. |
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Dr. Gloria J. Martinez, CFO
Official HOATalk.com Sponsor
Author of "A Guide to Community Living"
Faith Management Services, LLC (North Carolina)
(704) 799-3791
www.FaithManagementServices.com
*See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal |
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BillL3
(Texas)
Posts:18
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| 12/05/2007 3:50 PM |
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Again, Thanks to Gloria for having some compassion for the disabled, AND to: Donna in Florida, You may keep your swampland wherever you have been hiding it cos you are not the brightest crayon in the box....:
As a result of the federal Fair Housing Amendments Act (FHAA), homeowner associations are required to determine and provide a “reasonable accommodation” to disabled residents when requested. According to the FHAA, it is unlawful “to discriminate against any person in the terms, conditions, or privileges of sale or rental of a dwelling, or in the provision of services or facilities in connection with such dwelling, because of a handicap...” This prohibition on discrimination also makes it unlawful to refuse “to make reasonable accommodations in rules, policies, practices, or services, when such may be necessary to afford a handicapped person equal opportunity to use and enjoy their own dwelling.”
In the case of Gittleman v.Woodhaven Condominium Association, the plaintiff asked for a designated parking space due to his disability. The HOA argued that it was unable to grant his request because the master deed said parking spaces were common elements for the non-exclusive use of all unit owners.
The court, however, found that under federal housing law, the HOA is “duty bound to: (1) avoid enforcing provisions of the master deed that have discriminatory effects; and (2) regulate the use of the common elements so as to comply with the requirements of the FHAA.” Therefore, the HOA was found guilty of discrimination under the FHAA’s guidelines.
Soooo, miss Donna in Florida...may the sun shine very brightly on you!!
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:2833
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| 12/05/2007 4:33 PM |
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Mr. Bill, and everyone,
This is a good example why we have posting rules and should be dedicated to committee, Board members and property management problems.
p.s. (Your motor coach is for recreational purposes and not deemed as nescessary transportation) Thank You
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BillL3
(Texas)
Posts:18
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| 12/05/2007 5:20 PM |
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| Hey miss Donna in the Florida sunshine...I would hope you are never subjected to a life threatening disease or a stroke as myself was that might leave you disabled and needing some form of special transportation....this coach does make it possible for me to continue to do my job that I have done for 11 years. You are nothing but a HATER like the others that run this HOA here in texas.......Have a GREAT DAY!! LOSER..... |
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MicheleD
(Kentucky)
Posts:1698
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| 12/05/2007 7:46 PM |
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I have to agree with Donna, and, with all due respect, I don't think she was being hateful in her comments. You might not have liked the content, but there's no call to shoot the messenger.
I think the coach so equipped is a wonderful thing for you, however, the fact remains, you can't make a pig a thoroughbred by putting a bridle on it.
It's still an RV and should be housed in the appropriate location, which, according to your documents, is not your lot or in front of your lot.
My dad is in a similar situation. He has a retrofitted vehicle to accommodate some of his disabilities. However, he knows he cannot park it on his property, even though he uses it quite frequently. He stores it at a nearby RV storage facility (this is why these types of businesses exist, after all), and not on his property.
It may be somewhat inconvenient for you to have to car pool back and forth to the RV storage area, but it DOES keep you legal.
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GlenL
(Ohio)
Posts:1373
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| 12/05/2007 8:49 PM |
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Posted By BillL3 on 12/05/2007 5:20 PM
Hey miss Donna in the Florida sunshine...I would hope you are never subjected to a life threatening disease or a stroke as myself was that might leave you disabled and needing some form of special transportation....this coach does make it possible for me to continue to do my job that I have done for 11 years. You are nothing but a HATER like the others that run this HOA here in texas.......Have a GREAT DAY!! LOSER.....
Ever notice that people demanding tolerance and understanding rarely have it? |
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RobertR1
(South Carolina)
Posts:2148
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| 12/05/2007 11:50 PM |
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Bill,
We have no desire to add to your troubles. That's not what we do, nor do we evaluate the physical disabled. If you feel you are being discriminated because of your disabilities, that is another problem. I doubt we have any posters that could discribe your local situation and would post from personal knowledge. What we do is try and make some considered response to what you are telling us. I personally belive we missed the bus that is apparently headed to the court house and any opinions we post is not going to mediate your position or anyones elses position. It is much to complicated to be effected by remote internet correspondence. I and all that post here wish you well and hope you can settle all the problems that you have. We all have histories with our HOA's and with such a large HOA I am sure there are several folks that have physical disabilities and maybe they could serve as a compassionate source.
I am sure, in retrospect, that you did not mean to launch a personal attack on one of my brethern. But I know this lady better than you, and have read hours of acute, insightful, helpful and spot on posting she has posted here. I might suggest you use the search feature on this site and also beside her names and anyones name is a count of how many times they have posted. The people that posted to your reply really are, our brightest crayons, and their advice was compassionate and qualified, and may be some of the best advice you can get, given the communication method. It is also free, I point out.
We pride ourselves on knowing if one of us does not agree with another opinion, that is not a deal breaker for any of us. Having this kind of trust in each other, we do get a little bit of community concern when one of us are treated unkindly, and your remarks were unkind. Bang away all you want if you disagree with any opinion, we have heard some experts bangers, some right, some not. Again we welcome all and especially you as your case is complicated and on the way to a courts resolution sometime in the future, I sense this court appearance and resolution will leave some very unhappy.
So let us know how you are making out. It is now 2:45 AM here, and I am awake because you picked on the wrong crayon and your unkind opinion is a reflection on our integrity. |
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AnnaD2
(Florida)
Posts:335
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| 12/06/2007 4:03 AM |
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| WELL SAID ROBERT!!! BillL needs to know that we don't talk like that to one another on this site. Respect for one another's opinion goes a long way. Because of what he's posted, I now have no respect for him. |
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hoatalk
Posts:487
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| 12/06/2007 4:15 AM |
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Posted By BillL3 on 12/05/2007 5:20 PM
Hey miss Donna in the Florida sunshine...I would hope you are never subjected to a life threatening disease or a stroke as myself was that might leave you disabled and needing some form of special transportation....this coach does make it possible for me to continue to do my job that I have done for 11 years. You are nothing but a HATER like the others that run this HOA here in texas.......Have a GREAT DAY!! LOSER.....
BillL3: Please review our posting rules, specifically "Post any relevant topic you like, but please keep it clean, helpful, positive and friendly." Your comments to DonnaS are out of line and break our rules. Please stick to the facts and avoid name calling.
Thank You,
HOATalk.com
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PaulM
(Pennsylvania)
Posts:1347
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| 12/06/2007 5:20 AM |
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THANK YOU, HOAtalk... for interceeding when necessary. When a poster resorts to name calling because they feel the response is not one they like, they should be called on for it as you have done. Of late, this site has had
some 'doozies'!!! and I, for one, have become more selective in who/what I choose to respond to. Thanks again!
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BradP
(Kansas)
Posts:1742
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| 12/06/2007 8:25 AM |
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I would have to agree with Donna and Michele. The key statement in this statutes Bill referenced is reasonable accomodation. I don't think allowing a recreational vehicle to be parked as such that it breaks the covenants falls within that reasonable accomodation frame. If it was your primary mode of transportation that would be a different story.
Bill, I can not say I know how you feel because I am not in your situation and don't have a disability. I feel for you, but I just don't think you have a good shot at the RV. But...I am not a lawyer, so I may be way off base. I do wish you the best of luck with your case and hope it turns out how you want. |
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:2833
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| 12/06/2007 8:27 AM |
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Thanks to everyone who understands the HOA TALK rules and etiquette for posting. Sometimes we get on a subject that clearly has 2 sides and we as Board and Manager members always see the association side because that's what we do and who we are. It is difficult to tell some of the posters that they have to look at the document side of an issue. People are very passionate about their causes as we tend to be the same with our opinions on an issue . Those of us who work hard everyday for our associations and those who had worked hard, are very valuable to have adding input to this site .
ps. I AM a compassionate person and I also will be more selective on who I respond to. |
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