disabled & feeling harrassed by HOA

Bill - see if this can be taken to mediation.

We have heard one side, I am sure there is another side. you have some special circumstances, for sure, but convenants have to be followed. A neutral person should be obtained to sort it all out.

Good luck.

Susan & Donna: I know there are 2 sides to every story and I am not willing to sit here for the time it would take to type all that has happened....but in short i did tell the fast version of my side. The HOA is not being at all fair in their actions towards my family. Therefor we have resulted in going to an attorney for help that normally represents HOA's and have been advised to proceed with our countersuit.

Mary, our case is based on a little of both, but mostly on selective homeowners. Myself is not the only one being sued in this neighborhood, there is 2 more of which are countersuing also. The things that are being sued over are cut and dried in the deed restrictions in favor of the homeowners.....

Gloria, I did ask for a meeting with the Board and was told the outcome would not change. We submitted plans to do the work previously stated 3 times and was denied 3 times as: "not harmonious to the neighborhood" even though there are same senario lots in this subdivision. I find it real hard to swallow that YOU would state that "Unfortunately your attorney gave you bad advice". The deed restrictions plainly state that what we did is completely within the rules and legal.(except for getting ACC approval) which was not possible to obtain.

We cannot get an answer to why it is not harmonious. Our wrought iron fence was denied by ACC in 2003 and THEN because the then vice president of the HOA had a wrought iron fence on his lot...he took care of our ACC approval for our fence because we threatened with a lawsuit and he didnt want to lose his fence...he signed off our proposal in 2003. NOW, 4 years later they are saying that everything that is visible through our fence is not harmonious.....That vp is no longer and no longer lives in the community....more of the saga........it is very disgusting

Paul,
I do not have the approval on the fence in writing as the VP that handled that back in 2003 never sent me a copy. But the HOA has never said anything about the fence being a problem until now...4 years after it was put up. The yard is very well manicured and landscaped and is not an eyesore by any means, the building and AC window unit that they say must go because they can be seen from street because of fence have been in yard for 17 years. The building was replaced with a new identical storage building in 2001, because a storm destroyed the old one. I have many pics of other lots to take to court in January. We have many home owners signatures from the community stating they have no problem with what we have done on our lot and have no problem with parking the coach on my property...more of the saga...

Thank you Gloria for your responces...here is the copied and pasted deed restriction: No truck, trailer, boat, automobile or other vehicle shall be stored, parked or kept on any Lot or in the street in front of the Lot unless such vehicle is in a day to day use off the premises.
This coach goes to 87 tournaments per year, it is not stored or just parked here...some are 2-3 day events, this coach is used the same as everyone else's work vehicle, it is my work vehicle and is very necessary for my condition. There are regular vehicles in the community that dont get used on a daily basis and some are not moved nearly as often as this coach. This coach is moved a minimum of 3-4 times a week and sometimes gone for several days.

Gloria, Are you still saying that even with it stating if it is moved on a daily basis....I am still doing wrong?? It seems to me you are only reading part of the bylaw, I am going to court in Jan, I guess we will see then...my attorney is a HOA attorney and he thinks we will win the case.

Bill,
Not to be condecending or anything but the Attorney thinks that he can win the case. If you believe that, then I have some swampland in Florida that you can buy .
In my opinion, using the motor coach for your disability statement would not fall under the Americans with Disabilities Act either.
The only issue that I feel you have any chance of winning is that your applications for the fence were improperly handled when they were denied and with a chance of selective enforcement against you. Sorry but MHO.

Again, Thanks to Gloria for having some compassion for the disabled, AND to: Donna in Florida, You may keep your swampland wherever you have been hiding it cos you are not the brightest crayon in the box....:
As a result of the federal Fair Housing Amendments Act (FHAA), homeowner associations are required to determine and provide a “reasonable accommodation” to disabled residents when requested. According to the FHAA, it is unlawful “to discriminate against any person in the terms, conditions, or privileges of sale or rental of a dwelling, or in the provision of services or facilities in connection with such dwelling, because of a handicap...” This prohibition on discrimination also makes it unlawful to refuse “to make reasonable accommodations in rules, policies, practices, or services, when such may be necessary to afford a handicapped person equal opportunity to use and enjoy their own dwelling.”

In the case of Gittleman v.Woodhaven Condominium Association, the plaintiff asked for a designated parking space due to his disability. The HOA argued that it was unable to grant his request because the master deed said parking spaces were common elements for the non-exclusive use of all unit owners.

The court, however, found that under federal housing law, the HOA is “duty bound to: (1) avoid enforcing provisions of the master deed that have discriminatory effects; and (2) regulate the use of the common elements so as to comply with the requirements of the FHAA.” Therefore, the HOA was found guilty of discrimination under the FHAA’s guidelines.
Soooo, miss Donna in Florida...may the sun shine very brightly on you!!

Hey miss Donna in the Florida sunshine...I would hope you are never subjected to a life threatening disease or a stroke as myself was that might leave you disabled and needing some form of special transportation....this coach does make it possible for me to continue to do my job that I have done for 11 years. You are nothing but a HATER like the others that run this HOA here in texas.......Have a GREAT DAY!! LOSER.....

Ever notice that people demanding tolerance and understanding rarely have it?

WELL SAID ROBERT!!! BillL needs to know that we don't talk like that to one another on this site. Respect for one another's opinion goes a long way. Because of what he's posted, I now have no respect for him.

THANK YOU, HOAtalk... for interceeding when necessary. When a poster resorts to name calling because they feel the response is not one they like, they should be called on for it as you have done. Of late, this site has had
some 'doozies'!!! and I, for one, have become more selective in who/what I choose to respond to. Thanks again!

Thanks to everyone who understands the HOA TALK rules and etiquette for posting. Sometimes we get on a subject that clearly has 2 sides and we as Board and Manager members always see the association side because that's what we do and who we are. It is difficult to tell some of the posters that they have to look at the document side of an issue. People are very passionate about their causes as we tend to be the same with our opinions on an issue . Those of us who work hard everyday for our associations and those who had worked hard, are very valuable to have adding input to this site .
ps. I AM a compassionate person and I also will be more selective on who I respond to.

Patrick........This has really turned on me, as I suspected it would when I jumped on miss Donna from Florida. I really did not mean to be mean to her as a person, but to her post of not being compassionate to the disabled. Patrick, you are right in assuming that my situation moved very quickly, as you and everyone else can see it on here. This is not the case as I have been disabled not just since the Stroke in January but since October of 1997. Looking back over all the posts including my own, I can see how this got misunderstood. Maybe, I should have posted "Harrassed by HOA" and left out the disabled part....Some folks believe that if a person is disabled that they try to use that as leverage in their favor when some rules are in question. The ADA has made some provisions to the rules and the HOA's will learn that they must comply or be fined. The HOA filed suit on me because I would not comply to their 3 board members wants, I am indeed complying with the bylaws that are written for this community. I do think I will win this suit in court in January when we go and NO I am not interested in any Florida swampland....An honest THANK YOU to everyone who did reply to this post....Mr Bill

DJ, while I welcome the opinions of everyone and I think it's valuable for BOD members to understand how "ordinary" people think. And I think when BOD members get entrenched on a path because of principle; it's valuable for others to call them on it. I can't speak for DonnaS but I understand her frustration as lately it seems that most of the posts are "I broke the rules, how do I get away with it." Or, "I broke the rules and the HOA is trying to enforce against me, how do I stop the bas***d's." There are numerous HOA's are evil and all BOD members are power mad Hitler clones out to control every aspect of my life web sites without turning this into one too.

Bottomline...if you are unwilling to listen to answers that may not be on your side you shouldn't post.

I wish this person the best of luck in his endeavor.

To all,
This thread has a lot of pretty strong opinions and some could be a great place to try and convince everyone you were right and somebody else was wrong. You will notice that didn't happen. If you all remember we had a member posting here that did not leave any wiggle romm in her proclamation and insisted on comments that did no one any good. We have two views or so on the poster about the motor home, we have room for all to post and no one is jumping up trying to pick up sides like kids on the playground. I find all of us civil and considerate. I sure can't say that for all the people I know living in HOA's or towns or cities or neighborhoods. Another thing we do well with out thinking about is our replies for a very large part are never complete answers, so we answer with our experience and knowledge but not as teacher and student. We never ask for some score on how we are doing, and in fact would resist someone grading us. We seem willing to be right on the point but know enough to know we don't know everything. I am sure there are folks that drop by here and turn us off like a radio, we don't know this and it don't seem to bother us. We know we help at times and yet we are not asking for a talley. Seems to me we do pretty well, at least as far as we know, because bottom line, we know some stuff other folks don't, and that's alright with us also.
And Donna is becoming eloquent in her posting here of late. I think all of us have some poet in us and search for that rythum that says what we want. And that's ok also.

Michele,
"Smoking our own exhaust". LOFLMAO. That is wonderful! I must remember to use this at my next conversation with the President of our Board. I can just see this pained look on his face.

Anyway, I think your analysis is as descriptive as anyone is going to get about this site. As an extension to what you said and support of what you said, I want to point out, even if we don't get the whole story because it usually is complicated and full of personality and our conclusions are our best estimate, the poster knows the whole story, as he sees it. If we are successful and start the wheels turning their concerns and conclusions will be tempered with what we say. So, not to know the whole story, just enough to drag a specific question from some, is about all we can hope for. Professional or not, true or not, known agendas or not, it is all part of the big picture and a cross section of HOA living and at times there is no doubt we all "Smoke our own exhaust", once in a while, anyway. I do.

DJ1,
From the very beginning, Bill was absolutely on the wrong web site, which I did point out to him. He is as I call it, a disgruntled homeowner who has gotten himself going against his HOA and was posting his side of a very complicated story. When we get posts from this type of person basically looking for us to give him answers, and then he doesn't like what we are telling him, that is the second sign that we should not be responding to this post.

Reread the HOATALK posting rules on who should be on the site. We need to follow that request from HOATALK much better and just ignore these people.

YES, we all have different perspectives but we never should be allowed to go down the name calling path.We don't know each other and to be that crude, really is not what we are here for and who we really are other than a support group and think bank. Where does getting down low become acceptable.

And YES, we can question each other but to be downright aggressive and to belittle other peoples thinking is NOT ACCEPTABLE. I for one am going to ignore these kind of posts , which sometimes is unfair to a genuine poster who should deserve our thoughts and answers.
Donna

DJ said: "we already all know that, so why say it."

WE already "know that," but apparently HE doesn't or he didn't care to share it.

We need to say it because we need to have him tell us a more balanced version. One less replete with emotional triggers and extremely biased or one-sided details.

So, yes, I have no problem with posters REMINDING people when they get into their missives that there are two sides and in order to give a fair evaluation we need to have as much of the "other" side as possible. We have nothing from the HOA side. Just "they denied me" and it's "not harmonious with the neighborhood." He still has yet to tell us exactly what he is being sued for. He tries to say the HOA engaged in selective enforcement, then contradicts that with the revelation that there are 2 other homeowners that are being sued as well, though for what, we have no idea.

Regarding the comments re: things moving very quickly, again, I respectfully disagree. You may have read them as accusatory, but then I get the feeling that you read MOST of "our" comments that way. Again, MY feeling; My perspective. It may not be your reality, but it is my perspective.

I can't speak for the other posters, but I'm inclined to be of the mindset that they were trying to sort of "walk through" a capsulized timeline and trying their best to understand exactly when and how things escalated to a lawsuit so quickly. I didn't see it at all as trying to "imply" that Bill had some fast-tracking sneakiness going on.

In fact, his very first statement, right out of the starting gate, "This all started back in January 2007 when I had a stroke."

Well, as a matter of fact, it didn't. It started in February and continued until June, as that was the time period during which he admitted that he was parking his RV at his house, even after having received numerous letters from the HOA telling him not to. OR it may have even started in 2003! Because it appears that whatever "approval" he got for his wrought-iron fence is not even in writing. and THAT request, according to him, was denied initially.

Finally, after winding his way through some other convoluted time-line references, (he asked for approval to build the driveway and gate and was denied 3 times from February to June, but built it anyway? In either July or August, I'm still not sure. And then he asks this: "We would like some opinions from other HOA folks through this talk forum"

Now. I ask you. What exactly is he asking us? He was asking us for OUR OPINIONS, not "advice" and not "solutions" and not "recommendations" or "suggested next steps" or "how do we fix this" --

No, he presented a one sided, somewhat incomplete scenario and then wanted our "opinions."

When he did not LIKE the opinions he got, even though the posters were being very patient with him in terms of incomplete info and they were simply asking clarification questions. HE was the one to the "shoot the messenger."

Quite frankly, and again, this is just MY opinion, but based on this particular statement from him: "Gloria, Maybe also you missed the fact of having the coach is because of a stroke last January and the coach is needed nearby which is one of the reasons for putting in the driveway. The coach is equipped with all the needs I have and is a positive source for getting oxygen incase of a power outage."

I am of the opinion that he is very much trying to ring the "I deserve an exception" bell in that he INSISTS that the coach is needed "NEARBY" why??? In case of a power outage! OMG!

I know for a fact that there are all sorts of back up oxygen systems that someone could and would use in their home that are much more "convenient" than parking an RV with oxygen tanks in their driveway.

My opinion? The man just doesn't want to pay the storage fee and finds it too inconvenient to have to do what it takes to ferry himself -- or his wife -- back and forth to put it away and retrieve it. And he's trying to use the unfortunate fact of his stroke as the justification. It's already pretty clear from his comments that his entire defense, aside from the "selective enforcement" angle that almost all attorneys INITIALLY try, is his handicap. As though it were some sort of universal "get out of jail free" card.

Maybe the judge will agree. Maybe he/she won't. But just based on even his own one-side telling of the tale here, I think he's got a pretty slim case if that is all there is to it.

So, yea, I have to agree with Donna. I feel he is a disgruntled homeowner and expected to be able to somehow pull on our emotions to agree with him that he's being picked on or harassed by his HOA.

Not one question anyone asked was out of line.

MicheleD - Very well said.

Correction,

\to other FIRST posts

Hello Patrick, In reference to the how fast things moved, even though you raised the point I wasn't referrring to you having ill motives but how some HOA might. ie Stroke in January, Motorhome in February, was it really done to address the stroke issues. I personally could see how it could be because if you have the means, you do what is necessary to minimize the impact on your life as quickly as possible, but I also could see some HOA board not believing that and then getting their backs up because they think some homeowner is flouting their authority.

I've seen Michele's explanation but rarely do we see all the information needed, posted in a first post so I think we BOTH post based on our personal histories with HOA's. Maybe aside from this thread, putting a poster on the defensive right away isn't helpful either.