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LindaC3 (Florida)
Posts: 526
Posted:
Good day all.... Am in need of some assistance with regards to proxies and voting....I will try to be brief......A few months back our BOD made a rule which most of us here feel technically violates the Deed Restrictions about the parking of Rv'S on your private property.The DR'S state that no temporary residence may be parked, stored or maintained on your lot. However another section of the DR'S say that no temp res. may be parked or stored UNLESS by a rule of general application which shall be subject to laws and ordinances. Our local County allows for them to be parked w/o being wholly enclosed.Our BOD made a rule that they may be TEMPORARILY stored if they are totally enclosed in a building. Our attorney had given his opinion that we could adopt a "landscape" rule and allow for them to be screened,,, thus not having a rule that allows the temporary parking of an RV but having a building there that would be permanent......The BOd rejected the attorneys opinion

My next dr neighbor and they guy behind me BOTH have RV'S parked on their property W/O being in a building. The one neighbor has had an RV every year since 1987 parked on his property with no problem.BTW.. you cannot see the RV from the road...Large acreage lots with lots of trees.....So , anyways, the BOD has said this gentleman is in violation of the RULE and have been charging $5.00 per day ach day the RV is there...When he leaves for vacation no charge. So he put $1000.00 in an escrow account ( accepted by the HOA ) and filed for mediation with the State of Florida.He recieved an order for cause allowing him to proceed with the mediation.

Now we are in the " election " process here for our annual members meeting and folks are out gathering proxies. This gentleman has recieved quite a few much to the disdane of some of the BOD...So today,at our management meeting one of the BOD members said he wants this guys right to vote and to collect proxies suspended.Since he put a check in escrow he has been allowed use of all the facilities here, has been able to attend BOD meetings and participate etc...... My question is.....does this BOD member or the BOD in fact have the right to suspend his voting rights ?

Any and all comments will be greatly appreciated.... As always thanks in advance LindaC3

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Linda,
A couple of questions for you first before we sort this out.

You say the the DR's state that "No temporary residences may be parked, stored or maintained----" Exactly what section of your CC&Rs is that stated in.

Then there is "No temporary residences may be parked , stored or maintained UNLESS by a rule of general application which shall be subject to laws and ordinances" Exactly what section or part of you documents is this written in?

These 2 statements are in conflict with each other so where is each one stated?

You said that you are in the election process and folks are out gathering proxies? For Board members I assume? If your docs allow proxies, then he can gather as many as he wants. If he is NOT a member in good standing, thru your enforcement abilities, then his voting rights can be suspended. He is waiting for mediation to start but why are they fining him and not the other guys that you have as neighbors. That is called selective enforcement.
GloriaM (North Carolina)
Posts: 829
Posted:
Linda:

Go to http://www.ccfjedu.net/hoafs720.306-2007htm
or cut and paste the link provided and you can see the many Florida Statutes. Below is the home page of the link and the many provisions.

CHAPTER 720 (JULY 2007)
HOMEOWNERS' ASSOCIATIONS

PART I
GENERAL PROVISIONS (ss. 720.301-720.312)
720.301 Definitions.
720.302 Purposes, scope, and application.
720.303 Association powers and duties; meetings of board; official records; budgets; financial reporting; association funds; recalls.
720.3035 Architectural control covenants; parcel owner improvements; rights and privileges.--
720.304 Right of owners to peaceably assemble; display of flag; SLAPP suits prohibited.
720.305 Obligations of members; remedies at law or in equity; levy of fines and suspension of use rights; failure to fill sufficient number of vacancies on board of directors to constitute a quorum; appointment of receiver upon petition of any member.
720.3055 Contracts for products and services; in writing; bids; exceptions.
720.306 Meetings of members; voting and election procedures; amendments.
720.307 Transition of association control in a community.
720.3075 Prohibited clauses in association documents.
720.308 Assessments and charges.
720.3085 Payment for assessments; lien claims.
720.3086 Financial report.
720.309 Agreements entered into by the association.
720.31 Recreational leaseholds; right to acquire; escalation clauses.
720.311 Dispute resolution.
720.312 Declaration of covenants; survival after tax deed or foreclosure.
PART II
DISCLOSURE PRIOR TO SALE OF RESIDENTIAL PARCELS (ss. 720.401, 720.402)

720.401 Prospective purchasers subject to association membership requirement; disclosure required; covenants; assessments; contract cancellation.
720.402 Publication of false and misleading information.
PART III
COVENANT REVITALIZATION (ss. 720.403-720.407)

720.403 Preservation of residential communities; revival of declaration of covenants.
720.404 Eligible residential communities; requirements for revival of declaration.
720.405 Organizing committee; parcel owner approval.
720.406 Department of Community Affairs; submission; review and determination.
720.407 Recording; notice of recording; applicability and effective date.
________________________________________
712.11 Covenant revitalization.-- Homeowners' association not otherwise subject to chapter 720
________________________________________
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Is this fellow a "member in good standing"? If not, I hope he had due process . . .since voting is a basic right of every member.

Voting rights cannot be suspended just because this fellow has a dispute about a rule. If he has collected proxies and plans to present them at a meeting, then he can do so, IF that's how voting procedures concerning proxies are worded in your bylaws.

HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906
Posted:
Under Arizona law an HOA cannot take any action until due process is completed and an actual violation has been established. I think even in HOAs you are innocent until proven guilty. They cannot take away his voting rights on an "alleged" violation. Your board is pedalling furiously in fear of this fellow and his proxies. He should sue them if they deny him the vote. (In addition for possible selective enforcement.) Harold
LindaC3 (Florida)
Posts: 526
Posted:
SusanW1....Yes both parties are in "good standing" .They pay their monthly $161.00 assessment on time. According to Fl SS 720 your voting rights may only be suspended for failure to pay assessments not fines. LindaC3
LindaC3 (Florida)
Posts: 526
Posted:
DonnaS...Good morning.....Here we go .....these are taken directly from our " Deed Restrictions".... The all caps after will be my opinion.......LPC

Article I....Defintions..(i) "Temporary Residence " means a mobile residence including ,without limitation,a mobile home, a trailer intended for human occupancy, AND WE HAVE HORSE TRAILERS HERE THAT CONTAIN A BATHROOM AND COOKING FACILTIES,a motor home or camper.

Article VII Section 6. No temporary Residence is permitted on a Residential Lot except as may be temporarily permitted by a Rule of general application and which shall be subject to applicable laws and ordinances...
FOR THE MOST PART THE MEMBERS HERE UNDERSTOOD THIS TO MEAN THAT IF OUR LOCAL COUNTY ALLOWS FOR RV'S TO BE PARKED ON THE LOT THEN IT WOULD BE OKAY, I WENT TO OUR LOCAL COUNTY OFFICES AND THEY SAID THAT RV'S ARE NOT TEMPORARY RES. BUT VEHICLES AND YES IF THEY HAD CURRENT TAGS AND REGISTRATION THEY COULD BE PARKED ON THE PROPERTY.

Article VII Section 7.Subject to applicable laws,ordinances and the Rules, camping is permitted on a Residential Lot....
NOW HERES WHERE IT GETS INTERESTING....OUR COUNTY DOES NOT ALLOW FOR YOU TO CAMP ON RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY.....SO IN 1999 THE YEAR AFTER THESE DRS WERE WRITTEN OUR HOA HAD TO GO FILE FOR A SPECIAL EXEMPTION TO ALLOW THIS AND IT ONLY ALLOWS FOR CAMPING ON A VACANT LOT FOR 16 DAYS OF ANY GIVEN MONTH OR 30 DAY CYCLE.....NO ONE HERE KNEW ABOUT THIS AND LAST YEAR I HAD THE COUNTY DIG UP THE PAPERWORK FOR ME......I PASSED IT AROUND AND PEOPLE WERE SHOCKED THAT THEY WERE NOT INFORMED OF THIS....... TO THIS DAY WE HAVE MEMBERS HERE CAMPING ON THEIR DEVELOPED LOTS AND NOTHING IS DONE ABOUT IT......EVEN IF WE FILE A COMPLAINT WITH MANAGEMENT.......

And as I posted back to Susan yes both neighbors are current with their monthly assessments...... The exact words used at yesterdays management meeting was this from a BOD Member " These people need to be PUNISHED" and I hereby ask that their voting rights and the ability to collect proxies be suspended till the outcome of the mediation "......SUCH NERVE .....

Both these neighbors were fined by the BOD at a monthly meeting .....We only have a grievance committee that you go to AFTER THE BOARD FINES YOU.......My neighbor was told he would not win if he went for an appeal so he went directly to the State for mediation....... I could go on but will save you all the misery of the rest of the story, BUT you now see where I am heading with this....... Thanks for your patience....LindaC3
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Linda,
If all of the information that you posted is correct, NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO CAMP ON A RESIDENTAL LOT PER COUNTY RESTRICTIONS......"EXCEPT------
per a County Exemption-----16 days per month or a 30 day cycle" NO LONGER than that is allowed.

One thing that I would do is to call your County and see if this is still within County restrictions as with the new environmental issues, things have changed and your Association might not have current information.

What County is this? And did this exemption have a time limit as for how many years? Are they usually visitors who park on the lots? How big are the lots?

Do you have any other owners who are unhappy with this? If you do, then this might be the only avenue that you have to change it. It would have to be an amendment to your D.R.s
LindaC3 (Florida)
Posts: 526
Posted:
DonnaS...... We are a 3500 acre hunt and riding club......We have a " campground" for members to use when they come out to visit and use the facilties.... You may also only camp on your VACANT LOT> You are NOT ALLOWED to have guests camp on your developed lot PERIOD....... We have ( 299 ) 3 acre lots.... And there is no time limit for the camping per se but it will cease when the last lot is developed...which prob wont be for some time........ LindaC3
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Linda,
In the heirarchy of Documents, the County has precidence over your CC&Rs, unfortunately. If they have made an allowence, then that is the way it is allowed but do check to see if it is still open for your community.
As for the members out collecting the proxies when they are in mediation, I am not a legal person but I would think that they are still considered in good standing as long as they are "in the process" of working this out according to State rules. Once they are judged as in violation, then NO, they may not vote or collect proxies. But they must go thru the process first.
If it were my home,I would really work very hard to get that parking thing straightened out. I think it is way too unclear and not restrictive enough.
HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906
Posted:
Linda wrote: "According to Fl SS 720 your voting rights may only be suspended for failure to pay assessments not fines."
Donna wrote: "Once they are judged as in violation, then NO, they may not vote or collect proxies."
Which is it? I respect Donna's knowledge of Florida law, so am curious about these two statements. Thanks, Harold
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Thanks for the sharp eye, Harold.

Fl Statute 720;305 (2) a & b is the "FINING" statement which allows suspension of owners rights after proper notification and procedures for violations.

Fl Statute 720;3085 Is the chapter for unpaid assessments, which DOES NOT have any wording reguarding suspension of owners rights for unpaid "ASSESSMENTS" (unless I did not see it)

Now in my experience, I have seen associations that suspend rights of owners with delinquent dues. They would be required to have that allowance in their governing Docs.

Is this within Association rights?, I don't know but I'll bet that controls and a statement of allowance will be in 2008 revised statutes.
LindaC3 (Florida)
Posts: 526
Posted:
From Fla SS 720 3) If the governing documents so provide, an association may suspend the voting rights of a member for the nonpayment of regular annual assessments that are delinquent in excess of 90 days.

..... Our governing documents DO NOT contain any verbiage relating to suspension of VOTING RIGHTS....Only mentions that you cant use common facilities....but shall have the right to ingress and egress...LindaC3
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Linda,
720;3--? You did not finish this. I would really like to know where as I missed it. Thank You.
LindaC3 (Florida)
Posts: 526
Posted:
OOOPS....Sorry about that.....720.305.....scroll down and you will see it ....LindaC3 :>)
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Linda and Harold,
Thanks Linda, it is 720;305-(3) which is for assessments not paid. So It is both fines due to violations and non payment of assessments. Sometimes, I read too much and too fast. So YES, you can suspend members rights and use of common area except for their ability to ingress and egress.
LindaC3 (Florida)
Posts: 526
Posted:
DonnaS... I may be going blind LOL....but where do you SEE for pailure to pay fines allows them to restrict their voting rights....LindaC3
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Linda,
Yes, you can read these things and see different items every time that you do. I have much experience with them for 4 years and I miss stuff right in front of my eyes,

Failure to pay fines is stated in 720;305 (2) "IF THE GOVERNING DOCUMENTS SO PROVIDE, AN ASSOCIATION MAY SUSPEND FOR A REASONABLE TIME, THE RIGHTS OF A MEMBER -----etc.

Now, unless your governing documents do state that a members rights, are suspended do to being in violation, you might have difficult time to enforce this. Members rights include use of common areas and the ability to vote. So much will depend on the wording of your ByLaws. But you cannot do it just because the State allows it. The key words here are "IF THE GOVERNING DOCUMENTS PROVIDE".
LindaC3 (Florida)
Posts: 526
Posted:
DonnaS....Yes I do believe we all go " blind" after awhile reading all these things... I have just spent time reading our documents and NOTHING is contained in our " measley" By Laws about this issue, BUT I did find 2 statements in our Deed Restrictions on the topic...They are as follows..

The right of the Club to suspend the " enjoyment" rights of any owner for a period during which any assessment or lien remains unpaid and for a reasonable period for any infraction of the Rules or violation of this Deed Restrictions,,,,, NOTICE IT DOES NOT STATE UNPAID FINES....Fines are not subject to liens as you know here in Florida.... And the word "enjoyment" would convey to me the fitness center, pool, lodge etc.... not the enjoyment of voting...
Next article I found states the following..... The Club shall have the right to suspend the voting rights of the delinquent owner for the non payment of Assessments that are deliquent in excess for 90 days.... No where in our docs does it state that voting may be suspended for not paying a fine or being in violation of the RULES.. Remember now-- They ( BOD ) made a RULE about RV'S not a recorded deed restriction...So any potential buyers who would go to our local clerk of courts and read the Deed Restrictions online would not know anything about a RULE they made.... and the funny thing about this whole mess is that IF the BOD gets voted out the NEW BOD can revoke the previous rule and allow RV"s to be parked on the lots with screening...What a wicked web we weave when at first we try to decieve.......This RULE about RV'S was self serving to a few on the BOD and their close friends....
So today I have filed again to seek a seat on the BOD as I dont believe we should be living in an HOA that seeks to "punish" our neighbors for an alleged infraction of an unfair and unreasonable rule.......
LindaC3
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Very good, you have done your homework. Yes, a new Board could come in and remove the parking rule
I think that this should be clarified or changed to your protective covenants so that this won't be so iffy with each and every Board that gets elected.
The big work tho will be -How do the majority of the other owners feel? If you have alot of support, go for it. You seem passionate to this cause. It will be work but times change and so do peoples opinions and needs.
LindaC3 (Florida)
Posts: 526
Posted:
DonnaS... You are absolutely correct. I am very passionate about all things here that adversely effect our neighborhood... This next BOD coming in will have its work cut out for them, as this is the 10 year mark where we will be amending our Deed Restrictions. This time around I WILL make it my mission to be assured that they are done correctly this time so we do not have this mass confusion every BOD cycle.
This adopting of rules to circumvent the DR'S has got to stop.. Why bother even having DR'S if at the whim of the standing BOD they make a rule to change the "intent" of them...... Our DR'S are only 26 pages but our RULES book has close to 50.....That is absurd !!! Same with our By Laws..I sat on the Commitee and I can't believe the stuff they would NOT put in the By Laws instead referring them to the Rules Commitee.... UNREAL !!!! Even our Articles Of Inc.. have not been updated since 1973....... I have asked NUMEROUS times for them to be updated ..but that request also fell on deaf ears...
We have 3 cases pending for mediation right now due to the shanigans of the BOD and management....And sad but true, they hold merit and I do honestly believe the Association will lose all 3 cases.... 2 of the big ones are the failure to record 3 amendments to the By Laws with the Clerk of COurts as per the By laws until 28 yes TWENTY EIGHT YEARS after the alleged vote.... The only reason they were finally recorded was because of the cause for mediation.. The second one is challenging the votes for the 1998 Deed Restrictions... We found NUMEROUS invalid Power of Attorneys and our DR'S state a majority of the then owners..meaning that all owners on a deed must sign to agree to change...This was not a vote, but an agreement to consent to change in whole or part... The only collected 154 signatures- we have 299 lots so they felt they only needed a majority of the lots, not owners. 4 attorneys have given opinions as to that effect that it is ALL OWNERS not the LOTS... Also of those who had POA'S those signatures would need to be disqualified due to the invalid POA..... What happened was the attorney named on the POA signed as a witness, his wife then signed as a witness, and then SHE notorized BOTH their signatures..OOPS.. a big no no here in florida.
So as you can see i would have my work cut out for me if I actually got elected..BUT if I do win I will continue to be passionate about " fairness" and the good of the community...No personal agendas here..... Thanks for all your input LindaC3

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