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SaraS1 (Virginia)
Posts: 7
Posted:
THis is going to be long, so I apologize now, but please dont be discouraged by the length. I am in a loop of complete "no one knows"!! and need some help.

I am a member of the by laws committee in my association. I have been reading codes of VA and bylaws and rules and regs for literally the last year. Then I re read some things and found this paragraph in the associations restrictions:
“grantee for himself, his heirs executors or assigns agrees that as a consideration of sale and as a condition precedent to the installation of water mains adjacent to the lots as herein described and as appears on the map of X Development which said mains are to be located X Association, its successors or assigns that the grantee jointly and severally promise to pay to the grantor or its assignee a minimum of $4 per month payable annually in advance so long as water service is available. Payment thereof for the first year or part thereof shall be due on the first day of the month immed. following the availability of water service to grantee, his heirs, executors or assigns, for the period beginning with said month and ending on march 31st subsequent thereto, and thereafter die and payable in the amount of $24.00 semi annually in advance on the first day of April and November of each year. The foregoing charge is for the availability as well as the full use of the water service. At the time the cost of the original installation has been recovered through the payments above described the water system shall be the sole property of the X Association, Inc. at which time new, lower rates may be prescribed.”

So then I am reading the last paragraph of the restrictions and it states that certain sections, the above one being one of them “shall continue perpetuity”. And we need at least two thirds of agreeing lots in writing to change the restrictive covenants.

My point: we pay $25 per month for water these days. Does the above paragraph contradict what they have us paying currently? We have no amendments to these bylaws, articles of incorporation, restrictive covenants. I was working with the county to find our last set of recorded bylaws and finally found them filed with someone’s deed from the 70’s. It's not about the money, its about the integrity of the comunity (if that makes sense?!?)

Any help, ideas, suggestions on interpreting my information so I know what I am dealing with? Thanks in advance
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Sara:

To me it does...no where in there do I see a formula for raising those rates.

The question I would have is in your documents where is speaks of annual assessments what power does it give your board as far as raising them without a vote and does it include service charges such as you are paying for water in the boards power? Does it speak somewhere else about the board having the ability to raise those rates?
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
It doesn't matter what kind of paperwork you found from the past. The rates MAY have changed, as voted per the bylaws, over the years - maybe even several times.

The Association's secretary is the guardian of all the legal paperwork of the group - Articles of Inc., IRS Determination Letters, Bylaws, Annual Reports, Fiancial Reports, etc. etc.

So, where is your secretary and where are the legal documents of this group?
SaraS1 (Virginia)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BradP on 11/28/2007 12:56 PM
Sara:

To me it does...no where in there do I see a formula for raising those rates.

The question I would have is in your documents where is speaks of annual assessments what power does it give your board as far as raising them without a vote and does it include service charges such as you are paying for water in the boards power? Does it speak somewhere else about the board having the ability to raise those rates?

Brad - In the bylaws it says “the board shall have the power to levy regular or special assessments if the purpose in so doing is found by such board to be in the best interests of the association pursuant to section 55-515 of the Property owners act.” 55-515 refers to Compliance with declaration. It doesn’t speak anywhere else of the board having powers to raise rates, we have a yearly water availability fee of $48.00 as prescribed in our bylaws.
No changes can be made to the restrictive covenants without 2/3 of people voting in writing. (so if they changed the restrictive covenants to show a higher water fee then they should maybe stop handing out this incorrect disclosure packet?) to change the bylaws: new bylaws can be adopted at any meeting of active members provided notice of proposed changes is given in meeting notice.
I don’t know anymore. I just wanted to get some opinions before approaching the board with the matter. Since I am on the bylaws committee I am doing my best to keep things going in a proactive direction.
Thanks for your response
Sara
SaraS1 (Virginia)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SusanW1 on 11/28/2007 1:40 PM
It doesn't matter what kind of paperwork you found from the past. The rates MAY have changed, as voted per the bylaws, over the years - maybe even several times.

The Association's secretary is the guardian of all the legal paperwork of the group - Articles of Inc., IRS Determination Letters, Bylaws, Annual Reports, Fiancial Reports, etc. etc.

So, where is your secretary and where are the legal documents of this group?

Susan – this paperwork is our bylaws, restrictive covenants and article of incorporation that is being given to all homeowners of the association. So these documents are in our disclosure packet. The secretary, well, we have had several and ever since the last property manager was sued for embezzlement a lot of paperwork has suddenly disappeared. Legal document, to this association is a really fancy word, sadly.
However, if they changed said fees and raised them legally and fairly then why keep handing out the wrong disclosure packet? Any and all changes to the bylaws, articles, restrictive covenants must be recorded with the county clerks office, if that fails to happen then any changes are null and void. The last recorded set of bylaws and etc was recorded in 1999. If they raised the fees and dues, then in essence according to law, and did not record them with the clerks office then the fees being raised is null and void.
Basically though, you are suggesting that I go to the secretary and ask for said paperwork on the raising of the water fee.
I am just trying to separate the eggs in the basket. Our bylaws and rules are the most confusing things ever and this entire community was originally a campground in the 1960’s turned residential community and the bylaws still reflect this as a campground. That being said, thank you for your response.
Sara
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
The latest water rate is the one which was passed by the Board. That is the "legal" rate, as set by your Board.

Whether or not it got "filed" does not make it less binding on the members.

You need to find the minutes of the last meeting where the water rate was raised and go from there.

By the way, WHO is doing the billing (invoicing) for this water? The Treasurer? Surely, this person had directives to follow.

SaraS1 (Virginia)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SusanW1 on 11/28/2007 2:23 PM
The latest water rate is the one which was passed by the Board. That is the "legal" rate, as set by your Board.

Whether or not it got "filed" does not make it less binding on the members.

You need to find the minutes of the last meeting where the water rate was raised and go from there.

By the way, WHO is doing the billing (invoicing) for this water? The Treasurer? Surely, this person had directives to follow.


Susan - we have a new property manager. I have lived here for almost 5 years and in the last 3 months is when i finally started getting an actual water bill, otherwise i was sending my check monthly with no actual bill (just knowing it was due) no big deal i suppose. The property manager is the one who stuffs the envelopes and mails out the water bill, she is going on the directive of the board i assume for amount to be billed.
The information in the restrictive covenants and the informaion in the bylaws and the listing of fees due are all contridicting one another. I will approach the board and ask that they provide information and meeting minutes of the increase of fees. Then i can in turn put the changes in the bylaws and restrictive covenants for approval to help avoid future confusion.
as always, thank you,
Sara
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SusanW1 on 11/28/2007 2:23 PM
The latest water rate is the one which was passed by the Board. That is the "legal" rate, as set by your Board.

Whether or not it got "filed" does not make it less binding on the members.

You need to find the minutes of the last meeting where the water rate was raised and go from there.

By the way, WHO is doing the billing (invoicing) for this water? The Treasurer? Surely, this person had directives to follow.


Susan:

The board can not just arbitrarily raise rates on things. We don't have access to her documents so all we can give is an educated guess. But, if her covenants say it is to be billed at a rate of $4.00 per month the board can't raise it without changing the CC&R's. What if your documents said your annual assessment shall be fixed at $100 a month for eternity. The board can't increase that without amending the covenants. Now, if it were to say the board can increase it a maximum of 10% a year without membership vote then that is a different story. The last sentence is what I see missing from Sara's documents in reference to the water.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Sara said -
"In the bylaws it says “the board shall have the power to levy regular or special assessments if the purpose in so doing is found by such board to be in the best interests of the association pursuant to section 55-515 of the Property owners act.”

She needs to determine if that means the water rate.

If not, it should clearly state - SOMEWHERE, in SOME document - WHO sets the water rates!!!

PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
SaraS1: This is a tough one. But I'll offer my interpretation on some points in your post.

1) "pay to the grantor or its assignee a minimum of $4 per month payable annually in advance so long as water service is available."
- Payment of water service was to begin at $4 per month MINIMUM, payable in advance.

2) "payable in the amount of $24.00 semi annually in advance on the first day of April and November of each year."
- $24 semi-annually--every 6 mos. on 4/1 and 11/1; however no mention of a greater amount semi-annually if the $4 minimum/month is not adequate.

3) "At the time the cost of the original installation has been recovered through the payments above described the water system shall be the sole property of the X Association, Inc. at which time new, lower rates may be prescribed.”
- To follow this directive you would have to know the cost of the water system and IF the payments collected thus far have paid for it in full.
Once paid in full, the Association OWNS the water system and the monthly rate, paid semi-annually, can be lowered.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would suggest you work with the county or local municipality office to gain info about the water system, its cost, who installed it, etc. Is the water system part of the Assn.'s capital reserve items?

P.S. Who are the payments made to in April and November?

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
This is most likely a private water system. (she said it used to be a campground, now is residential.)

Her rate seems VERY low. If the government gets in there, expect a huge increase. Most likely it's out of date and hasn't been inspected, updates, etc.

Keep us informed . . .
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
By the way, I am posting this at 9:50 AM on Sat Dec. 1, 2007 - yet the time of the message says around 2:47 PM.

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