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PaulM
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:1347

11/29/2007 12:38 PM
ChrisB4: Yes, it certainly does make a difference that the 'wife' is an appointed Board member filling the unfinished TERM and SEAT of the Board member who quit. Therefore, the wife will remain until the TERM is up at which time there should be an election for the open 'seat' on the Board--not the open Secy. position, necessarily, since after a new election the Board as a whole will decide among themselves who will assume what position/role). I wish you much success and clearer understanding as you speak with the attorney regarding the position you should be taking. Hopefully, the way will be made straight and all will be accomplished for the overall good of the community. Please keep us posted on your success.

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1373

11/29/2007 1:02 PM
Chris I thought maybe I had been too hard on you so I went back and re-read your posts from the beginning and a common theme appears. Everyone else is doing wrong and you are the voice of sanity in a confused and troubled HOA; if only they would do as YOU say they could be led into the Promised Land of HOA bliss. By your own admission you were on the committee to re-write your by-laws so you should know whether or not the wife can be appointed and who did appoint her; her husband or the majority of the BOD and was it proper? And why did you let such an asinine proxy rule in? Again I reiterate - You can whine and complain to the people on this site, who can DO NOTHING to change YOUR community about how bad things are or you can do something about the alleged problems. In almost all of your posts when people don't jump immediately to your side and agree with you, you complain that we just don't understand you. Now that may be a fair reaction, by your own admission your spelling and grammar are not the best and maybe you're simply not getting your point across. Or it could be that since most people seem to disagree with you that you don't have a clue and just want to complain; only you can decide that point. As I said I went back and re-read all your posts back to your flow charts to micro-manage the day to day operations of your community. I know this is off topic but I have to ask if perhaps you work for the Government?

ChrisB4
(West Virginia)

Posts:175

11/29/2007 2:22 PM
Posted By SusanW1 on 11/29/2007 12:29 PM You said - "Our documents say, specifically that each homeowner can only carry ONE proxy and that proxy shall ONLY be counted toward quorum NOT to vote." So your annual meeting could be 1 guy with 100 proxies, and 10 other live bodies!!?? And passing motions takes a majority of (live) voters present? Amazing!! Yes there could only be one person and 100 proxies, but that one person could only have brought one proxy himself. The Other 99 would have to be handed to a Board member or mailed to the HOA post office box. and in my community he woundn't be able, with that number to make quorum until our third meeting! Yes passing a motion takes a majority of the persons present. I was on the By-Laws committee and was against the way they designed our proxy system. They were afraid that one person (or a few motivated people) would collect a ton of proxies and be able to make decisions for everyone. Now what we have is the inability to get a quorum without 4 meetings over as many as 180 days if the President wants to call the meetings as far apart as he can!!

PaulM
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:1347

11/29/2007 2:32 PM
ChrisB4: Be sure you are understanding what 'bringing one proxy yourself' means. A proxy is used when a member wants to give their authority to another member to vote on their behalf and in their absence. I question the interpretation of, as you quote, ..."each homeowner can only CARRY ONE PROXY and that proxy shall ONLY be counted toward quorum NOT to vote." Perhaps the 'proxy' form your association has used is meant as a proxy to meet quorum; however, a proxy can be used very effectively when member attendance is low. A member not able to attend a meeting in which there will be a vote taken gives HIS proxy/authority to another member who will attend and vote on the absentee's behalf and as the attendee chooses.

ChrisB4
(West Virginia)

Posts:175

11/29/2007 2:51 PM
Posted By GlenL on 11/29/2007 1:02 PM Chris I thought maybe I had been too hard on you so I went back and re-read your posts from the beginning and a common theme appears. Everyone else is doing wrong and you are the voice of sanity in a confused and troubled HOA; if only they would do as YOU say they could be led into the Promised Land of HOA bliss. By your own admission you were on the committee to re-write your by-laws so you should know whether or not the wife can be appointed and who did appoint her; her husband or the majority of the BOD and was it proper? And why did you let such an asinine proxy rule in? Again I reiterate - You can whine and complain to the people on this site, who can DO NOTHING to change YOUR community about how bad things are or you can do something about the alleged problems. In almost all of your posts when people don't jump immediately to your side and agree with you, you complain that we just don't understand you. Now that may be a fair reaction, by your own admission your spelling and grammar are not the best and maybe you're simply not getting your point across. Or it could be that since most people seem to disagree with you that you don't have a clue and just want to complain; only you can decide that point. As I said I went back and re-read all your posts back to your flow charts to micro-manage the day to day operations of your community. I know this is off topic but I have to ask if perhaps you work for the Government? This is indeed the problem with the internet and writing things where 9/10th of communication is lost. If I didn't know any better I would say your being a tad condescending, but I digress. I will assume your trying to be helpful, though instead of making assumptions about how I perceive things, just ask me.... How should the Board run in a perfect world? The answer is simple, The Board addresses the wants, concerns and needs of the community. Obviously not everyone agrees with what those things are or how to prioritize them. This is why there is a Board. The members of the Board should share an agenda with each other and meet face to face to discuss and debate (if necessary) the topics that are on the agenda. At public meetings, the chair should offer to open the floor and allow some participation. Once the participation part is done, the floor is closed and a member should put forth a motion (get a second) and call for a vote, rinse and repeat until the business is done. As far as being the only voice of reason, I don't believe that I ever claimed that, I have quite a bit of support. As far as jumping on people, as I stated in the beginning of this post, the internet can be a difficult place to have a discussion about the types of complex problems that many of us face in our HOA's. Often the trouble is that there is so much to write simply to put a situation in context. and of course at the end of the day it is still all from my point of view. The bottom like is, I'm exaggerating about how screwed up thing are here, or things are really screwed up!!! Speaking to the flow charts, I like everyone else here there is a lot that I have come to learn over time. The real trick is to be able to look back and be able to admit your mistakes and learn from them. I don't come here to convince you that I'm right, I make my argument and I ask that others make theirs and if the reasoning is sound, than I can integrate that into what I know. Please, change my opinion, point out my flaws or mistakes. That is the only way I will get better at what I'm trying to do. In regards to the flow charts, my understanding of the management of a community has changed quite a bit. I am on the Board now and I have a new understanding for the way things are done. I understand that often as a Board member I have to balance things. Sometimes it takes longer to do something and be accountable, Are we as a community trying to make money or encourage compliance when we set a fine? Complain, no, learn yes. Hopefully you have learned something about me. Thanks again for taking the time to reply.

JeanneK3
(Maryland)

Posts:129

11/30/2007 5:19 PM
Chris B 4. Do the newsletter and mail it or deliver it door to door. It is the only way you'll see change in your association. Sunshine works.

GloriaM
(North Carolina)

Posts:778

12/01/2007 9:33 AM
Chris: You stated you have 368 homes, what do your documents read as far as percentage of votes needed to recall the board?

Dr. Gloria J. Martinez, CFO Official HOATalk.com Sponsor Author of "A Guide to Community Living" Faith Management Services, LLC (North Carolina) (704) 799-3791 www.FaithManagementServices.com *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

ChrisB4
(West Virginia)

Posts:175

12/01/2007 6:34 PM
Posted By GloriaM on 12/01/2007 9:33 AM Chris: You stated you have 368 homes, what do your documents read as far as percentage of votes needed to recall the board? 60% (approx 222), dropping by 1/2 at each subsequent meeting.

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1373

12/02/2007 4:24 AM
Chris I did not intend for my last post to be condescending and if it came off that way, I apologize. That said, my question remains, was the wife properly appointed to the BOD? Now it is only human to assume you are the one who is correct and in a group of more than one it is hard to please everyone. The numbers you gave - 368 homes 25 people plus you upset at things the BOD are doing, that's only around 7% of the community upset at how things are being run and if any of those people come from the same house the percentage drops. Now that is not to say that you are wrong but if you want to change things you and your group need to do it. If things are as bad as what you imply once people know about it they'll act; just remind them that it is their money being wasted. First I'd check WV corporation law on proxies if what you are saying is true it doesn't sound to me if that rule of 1 to 1 is valid; although some states do not allow for proxies to be used in an HOA at all. In my association I can go to all my neighbors and collect as many proxies as I am able to and unless they are a directed proxy, I can vote them as I see fit. If it is a valid rule then you have more work cut out for you, get the people fired up and get them to a meeting and vote your own people in.

ChrisB4
(West Virginia)

Posts:175

12/02/2007 9:36 AM
Posted By GlenL on 12/02/2007 4:24 AM Chris I did not intend for my last post to be condescending and if it came off that way, I apologize. That said, my question remains, was the wife properly appointed to the BOD? Now it is only human to assume you are the one who is correct and in a group of more than one it is hard to please everyone. The numbers you gave - 368 homes 25 people plus you upset at things the BOD are doing, that's only around 7% of the community upset at how things are being run and if any of those people come from the same house the percentage drops. Now that is not to say that you are wrong but if you want to change things you and your group need to do it. If things are as bad as what you imply once people know about it they'll act; just remind them that it is their money being wasted. First I'd check WV corporation law on proxies if what you are saying is true it doesn't sound to me if that rule of 1 to 1 is valid; although some states do not allow for proxies to be used in an HOA at all. In my association I can go to all my neighbors and collect as many proxies as I am able to and unless they are a directed proxy, I can vote them as I see fit. If it is a valid rule then you have more work cut out for you, get the people fired up and get them to a meeting and vote your own people in. Our By-Laws say one vote per lot. Does that include votes of the Board of directors? Some here may say yes others may say no. I believe a vote is a vote. So in that case I believe that even though she was appointed to the Board, I think they Board refused to consider this point (that I read to them) and appointed her anyway. 25 lots are represented, and after yesterday people representing another 7 lots came and voiced their opposition. Literally everyone at our monthly public meeting oppose him. The number of PEOPLE, is closer to 45, I'm counting lots (votes). A member called for his (the president) and the people their offered to sign a petition on the spot. The president said they would have to file a formal petition before it would be recognized. I offered to show the homeowner how that was done. No more no less. I told the people in the room that I oppose much of what the Board has done, but that my participation would be limited to answering questions on matters of proceedure and questions that I am allowed to answer as a Board member. I said I would not get involved beyond that as I am in a position where I could be accused of trying to "take over". I believe a lot of people respected my position and they do not include me on there emails between each other when they talk about planning his removal, which looks like it may come next week. There is nothing that I can find in our state law that prevents the Board from enforcing the proxy rule as it sits now. That is something I will work to amend in the future. Thanks for getting back to me on this. (I write this in a terrible hurry, my apologies for typo's and such) Chris

BillS11
(California)

Posts:19

12/19/2007 3:31 PM
Chris In California as of January 1, 2008 all Boards must meet in open session and all executive sessions must be held as part of that open meeting. The board must also prepare and publish 30 days before the meeting an agenda and provide that agenda to all homeowners 30 days before the meeting. The boards are also restricted to discussing and acting on only the items on the agenda. Refusal or failure to do so is a violation Of California Civil Code Section 1363.03 and carries a fine of $500.00 plus court costs and legal fees of the homeowner who files a civil action against the board for violating that law. Does your state have such a law? If not you might get a copy of the California Sterling Davis Act and start getting your states legislature and Governor on the band wagon. Good Luck. and Meery Christmas

PatrickH
(California)

Posts:197

12/19/2007 4:20 PM
Bill, Holy mackeral, is that information correct? It sounds like the Board would have to publish the February meeting agenda on the same day they're having the January meeting, if they're 30 days apart. What happens if something on the January agenda doesn't get decided, or if something happens between the January and February meetings, do they have to be pushed back until the March meeting so they can be on the agenda publiched in February? People already complain about the glacial pace that HOAs respond to the owners. Wait til they find out that it's going to take two months for the Board to even discuss replacing a broken window or fixing a broken elevator...

GloriaM
(North Carolina)

Posts:778

12/20/2007 7:12 AM
Chris: That would mean you would have to present a petition of 222 Owners signing to recall the board. A meeting would have to be called for the sole purpose of recalling the board and immediately after holding an election of a new board.

Dr. Gloria J. Martinez, CFO Official HOATalk.com Sponsor Author of "A Guide to Community Living" Faith Management Services, LLC (North Carolina) (704) 799-3791 www.FaithManagementServices.com *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

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Forums > Homeowner Association > HOA Discussions > Nepitisim and Executive session